QL data available for 35 Whelen and 250gr Hawk & Woodleighs

[preacher]

Does QL have load data for the Hawk & the Woodleigh 250gr round nose bullets? I know they do for the Hornady 250RN and Barnes, maybe the Woodleigh, but the Hawk is a pretty soft (pure copper) jacketed lead. I have shot them in the 9.3x62 and the 358 (225) Winchester. They "bump up" real fast and one can't use starting loads for , say, a Hornady gilded metal jacketed bullet. I'm looking for an "old school" 250 round nose load for this standard Whelen, its a Mod 700 Classic, 22" bbl. Any help is appreciated.

 

[DrMike]

Jim,

I set the max chamber pressure at 61k psi for this projection.

Cartridge          : .35 Whelen
Bullet             : .358, 250, Hawk RT .035
Useable Case Capaci: 62.719 grain H2O = 4.072 cm³
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 3.340 inch = 84.84 mm
Barrel Length      : 22.0 inch = 558.8 mm

Predicted Data for Indicated Charges of the Following Powders.
Matching Maximum Pressure: 61000 psi, or 420 MPa
or a maximum loading ratio or filling of 110 %
These calculations refer to your specified settings in QuickLOAD 'Cartridge Dimensions' window.
C A U T I O N : any load listed can result in a powder charge that falls below minimum suggested
loads or exceeds maximum suggested loads as presented in current handloading manuals. Understand
that all of the listed powders can be unsuitable for the given combination of cartridge, bullet
and gun. Actual load order can vary, depending upon lot-to-lot powder and component variations.
USE ONLY FOR COMPARISON !

Powder type          Filling/Loading Ratio  Charge    Charge   Vel. Prop.Burnt P max  P muzz  B_Time
                                      %     Grains    Gramm   fps     %       psi     psi    ms
---------------------------------  -----------------------------------------------------------------
ReloadSwiss RS 60                  108.2     65.6     4.25    2692   100.0    61000    9461   1.070  ! Near Maximum !
Elcho 17                           107.4     65.1     4.22    2677    99.8    61000    9390   1.074  ! Near Maximum !
Alliant Reloder-17                 107.4     65.1     4.22    2677    99.8    61000    9390   1.074  ! Near Maximum !
PB Clermont PCL 511                108.9     67.0     4.34    2633    97.2    61000    9347   1.084  ! Near Maximum !
Vihtavuori N550                    109.0     64.4     4.17    2627    98.6    61000    9203   1.095  ! Near Maximum !
Hodgdon H414                       106.4     65.0     4.21    2625    96.3    61000    9264   1.088  ! Near Maximum !
Winchester 760                     106.4     65.0     4.21    2625    96.3    61000    9264   1.088  ! Near Maximum !
ReloadSwiss RS 62                  110.0     66.6     4.32    2606    98.0    57033    9260   1.117  ! Near Maximum !
Norma 203 old                      104.0     60.8     3.94    2589    99.9    61000    8525   1.113  ! Near Maximum !
Bofors RP3                         104.0     60.8     3.94    2589    99.9    61000    8525   1.113  ! Near Maximum !
Rottweil R903                      106.4     60.8     3.94    2582    99.8    61000    8441   1.113  ! Near Maximum !
Accurate 4350                      110.0     63.6     4.12    2581    98.3    57104    8991   1.131  ! Near Maximum !
Hodgdon H380                       102.9     60.8     3.94    2574    98.3    61000    8670   1.109  ! Near Maximum !
Somchem S355                       106.1     60.0     3.89    2573    99.7    61000    8426   1.112  ! Near Maximum !
Norma URP                          110.0     62.9     4.08    2572    98.2    56593    8960   1.124  ! Near Maximum !
Bofors RP19 ~approximation         110.0     62.9     4.08    2571    98.1    56536    8955   1.125  ! Near Maximum !
Norma 204                          110.0     65.7     4.26    2569    93.4    60067    8961   1.096  ! Near Maximum !
Ramshot Hunter                     110.0     65.7     4.26    2568    96.3    56293    9155   1.123  ! Near Maximum !
Accurate 4064                      104.1     58.9     3.82    2567   100.0    61000    7977   1.134  ! Near Maximum !
Lovex D073.6                        98.7     58.8     3.81    2564   100.0    61000    7970   1.118  ! Near Maximum !
Accurate 2520                       96.5     58.8     3.81    2564   100.0    61000    7970   1.118  ! Near Maximum !
Lovex S065                         109.3     61.8     4.01    2548    97.6    61000    8494   1.114  ! Near Maximum !
PB Clermont PCL 518                110.0     65.7     4.26    2547    95.5    54829    9124   1.136  ! Near Maximum !
Accurate 2495                       98.0     55.4     3.59    2546   100.0    61000    7637   1.141  ! Near Maximum !
SNPE Vectan SP 7                    97.0     60.2     3.90    2544    98.2    61000    8332   1.114  ! Near Maximum !
Lovex S070                         110.0     62.9     4.08    2544    96.2    59306    8690   1.124  ! Near Maximum !
Rottweil R907                      107.5     61.0     3.95    2532    95.5    61000    8469   1.112  ! Near Maximum !
Bofors RP7                         107.5     61.0     3.95    2532    95.5    61000    8469   1.112  ! Near Maximum !
Bofors RP4 NT ~approximation       110.0     64.6     4.18    2532    95.1    57308    8726   1.126  ! Near Maximum !
IMR 4007 SSC                       104.2     61.1     3.96    2532    95.5    61000    8463   1.113  ! Near Maximum !
ReloadSwiss RS 70                  110.0     67.7     4.39    2528    93.8    53003    9467   1.147  ! Near Maximum !
Alliant Reloder-16                 110.0     61.9     4.01    2528    98.3    51202    8960   1.167
Lovex D073.5                        92.3     57.2     3.71    2528   100.0    61000    7758   1.127  ! Near Maximum !
Accurate 2460                       92.0     57.2     3.71    2528   100.0    61000    7758   1.127  ! Near Maximum !

Cartridge          : .35 Whelen
Bullet             : .358, 250, Woodleigh SN WeldCore 53
Useable Case Capaci: 63.360 grain H2O = 4.114 cm³
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 3.340 inch = 84.84 mm
Barrel Length      : 22.0 inch = 558.8 mm

Predicted Data for Indicated Charges of the Following Powders.
Matching Maximum Pressure: 61000 psi, or 420 MPa
or a maximum loading ratio or filling of 110 %
These calculations refer to your specified settings in QuickLOAD 'Cartridge Dimensions' window.
C A U T I O N : any load listed can result in a powder charge that falls below minimum suggested
loads or exceeds maximum suggested loads as presented in current handloading manuals. Understand
that all of the listed powders can be unsuitable for the given combination of cartridge, bullet
and gun. Actual load order can vary, depending upon lot-to-lot powder and component variations.
USE ONLY FOR COMPARISON !

Powder type          Filling/Loading Ratio  Charge    Charge   Vel. Prop.Burnt P max  P muzz  B_Time
                                      %     Grains    Gramm   fps     %       psi     psi    ms
---------------------------------  -----------------------------------------------------------------
ReloadSwiss RS 60                  107.9     66.1     4.28    2698   100.0    61000    9535   1.069  ! Near Maximum !
Elcho 17                           107.1     65.6     4.25    2683    99.9    61000    9469   1.073  ! Near Maximum !
Alliant Reloder-17                 107.1     65.6     4.25    2683    99.9    61000    9469   1.073  ! Near Maximum !
PB Clermont PCL 511                108.5     67.5     4.38    2639    97.3    61000    9434   1.083  ! Near Maximum !
Vihtavuori N550                    108.6     64.8     4.20    2632    98.7    61000    9284   1.094  ! Near Maximum !
Hodgdon H414                       106.0     65.5     4.24    2631    96.4    61000    9352   1.087  ! Near Maximum !
Winchester 760                     106.0     65.5     4.24    2631    96.4    61000    9352   1.087  ! Near Maximum !
ReloadSwiss RS 62                  110.0     67.3     4.36    2621    98.2    57782    9365   1.110  ! Near Maximum !
Accurate 4350                      110.0     64.2     4.16    2596    98.5    57905    9092   1.124  ! Near Maximum !
Norma 203 old                      103.7     61.2     3.97    2594    99.9    61000    8595   1.112  ! Near Maximum !
Bofors RP3                         103.7     61.2     3.97    2594    99.9    61000    8595   1.112  ! Near Maximum !
Rottweil R903                      106.0     61.2     3.97    2587    99.8    61000    8511   1.112  ! Near Maximum !
Norma URP                          110.0     63.5     4.12    2586    98.3    57278    9062   1.118  ! Near Maximum !
Bofors RP19 ~approximation         110.0     63.5     4.12    2585    98.3    57221    9057   1.118  ! Near Maximum !
Norma 204                          110.0     66.3     4.30    2584    93.7    60729    9080   1.090  ! Near Maximum !
Ramshot Hunter                     110.0     66.3     4.30    2583    96.5    56939    9268   1.117  ! Near Maximum !
Hodgdon H380                       102.6     61.2     3.97    2579    98.4    61000    8748   1.108  ! Near Maximum !
Somchem S355                       105.7     60.4     3.91    2578    99.8    61000    8497   1.111  ! Near Maximum !
Accurate 4064                      103.8     59.3     3.84    2571   100.0    61000    8041   1.133  ! Near Maximum !
Lovex D073.6                        98.4     59.2     3.84    2568   100.0    61000    8035   1.117  ! Near Maximum !
Accurate 2520                       96.1     59.2     3.84    2568   100.0    61000    8035   1.117  ! Near Maximum !
PB Clermont PCL 518                110.0     66.3     4.30    2562    95.8    55453    9239   1.129  ! Near Maximum !
Lovex S070                         110.0     63.5     4.12    2558    96.4    59969    8796   1.118  ! Near Maximum !
Lovex S065                         109.0     62.3     4.03    2553    97.7    61000    8572   1.113  ! Near Maximum !
Accurate 2495                       97.7     55.8     3.62    2550   100.0    61000    7699   1.141  ! Near Maximum !
SNPE Vectan SP 7                    96.7     60.6     3.93    2550    98.3    61000    8408   1.114  ! Near Maximum !
Bofors RP4 NT ~approximation       110.0     65.2     4.23    2547    95.4    58008    8836   1.120  ! Near Maximum !
ReloadSwiss RS 70                  110.0     68.4     4.43    2545    94.1    53593    9594   1.140  ! Near Maximum !
Alliant Reloder-16                 110.0     62.6     4.05    2543    98.5    51836    9062   1.160
Somchem S365                       110.0     63.9     4.14    2541    99.7    50951    8909   1.166
Bofors RP7                         107.2     61.5     3.98    2538    95.6    61000    8552   1.111  ! Near Maximum !
Rottweil R907                      107.2     61.5     3.98    2538    95.6    61000    8552   1.111  ! Near Maximum !
IMR 4007 SSC                       103.8     61.5     3.99    2538    95.6    61000    8545   1.112  ! Near Maximum !
Lovex D073.5                        92.0     57.6     3.73    2532   100.0    61000    7822   1.126  ! Near Maximum !
Accurate 2460                       91.7     57.6     3.73    2532   100.0    61000    7822   1.126  ! Near Maximum !
Rottweil R901                       97.0     53.8     3.49    2519   100.0    61000    7651   1.133  ! Near Maximum !
Bofors RP4 ~approximation          110.0     64.2     4.16    2491    92.0    53963    8772   1.148  ! Near Maximum !
Raufoss RA4                        110.0     64.2     4.16    2491    92.0    53963    8772   1.148  ! Near Maximum !
Hodgdon Hybrid 100V                110.0     62.2     4.03    2490    99.0    52287    8321   1.162
Alliant Reloder-26                 110.0     69.1     4.48    2478    94.5    45118    9906   1.225
ADI AR 2209                        110.0     63.9     4.14    2465    91.1    51740    8797   1.166
Alliant Reloder-19                 110.0     64.2     4.16    2450    91.1    49755    8827   1.188
Winchester Supreme 780             110.0     67.7     4.39    2447    91.3    52833    8479   1.161  ! Near Maximum !

Trust this is helpful for you.

 

[preacher]

You bet, thanks Pard! I wonder why R15 is not shown? I was pretty surprised to see approx. 2700 with some of those loads...wow, that's humming. ha

 

[SJB358]

I haven't found much that beat RL15 for accuracy yet. I know there are some great powders but 15 always seems to click.

 

[preacher]

Me too Scotty, I really like it out here where the temp can drop 60 degs in late Fall/early winter. I informally tested it in the 35 WAI/310 load I had from 70deg to a tad under 25 deg...no difference is speed or accuracy. As I like to tease R19 users, it lost too much speed/accuracy for me "in the one load combination" I was using in that 338 WM/185XLC. Normally I don't mind compressed loads, but that one was the exception rather than the rule...that slick XLC bullet and no LEE FCD back then! ha I plan on staying around 2400-2500 tops in the Colonel.

 

[SJB358]

I would think getting 2400 from a 250 is a piece of cake. Probably be pretty decent shoot as well. I have a couple boxes of Hornady RN 250's I might need to give a try. Never loaded a RN in the Whelen.

 

[DrMike]

Obviously, RL15 will work. It gives reasonable case fill, etc. However, others give better velocities and that is what the program is looking for.

Cartridge : .35 Whelen
Bullet : .358, 250, Woodleigh SN WeldCore 53
Useable Case Capaci: 63.360 grain H2O = 4.114 cm³
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 3.340 inch = 84.84 mm
Barrel Length : 22.0 inch = 558.8 mm
Powder : Alliant Reloder-15

Predicted data by increasing and decreasing the given charge,
incremented in steps of 2.0% of nominal charge.
CAUTION: Figures exceed maximum and minimum recommended loads !

Step Fill. Charge Vel. Energy Pmax Pmuz Prop.Burnt B_Time
% % Grains fps ft.lbs psi psi % ms

-20.0 81 47.36 2098 2443 32418 7059 92.3 1.471
-18.0 83 48.54 2148 2561 34541 7264 93.3 1.431
-16.0 85 49.73 2198 2682 36799 7462 94.3 1.392
-14.0 87 50.91 2248 2805 39202 7653 95.2 1.351
-12.0 89 52.10 2298 2930 41758 7835 96.0 1.311
-10.0 91 53.28 2347 3058 44478 8008 96.7 1.274
-08.0 93 54.46 2397 3188 47373 8172 97.4 1.237
-06.0 95 55.65 2446 3321 50457 8325 98.0 1.203
-04.0 97 56.83 2495 3455 53742 8467 98.5 1.169 ! Near Maximum !
-02.0 99 58.02 2544 3592 57246 8598 99.0 1.136 ! Near Maximum !
+00.0 101 59.20 2592 3730 60984 8717 99.3 1.105 ! Near Maximum !
+02.0 103 60.38 2641 3871 64976 8823 99.6 1.075 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+04.0 105 61.57 2689 4013 69243 8915 99.8 1.045 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+06.0 107 62.75 2737 4157 73810 8995 99.9 1.017 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+08.0 109 63.94 2784 4303 78702 9060 100.0 0.990 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+10.0 111 65.12 2831 4450 83950 9114 100.0 0.964 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!

Results caused by ± 10% powder lot-to-lot burning rate variation using nominal charge
Data for burning rate increased by 10% relative to nominal value:
+Ba 101 59.20 2694 4030 72554 8396 100.0 1.030 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Data for burning rate decreased by 10% relative to nominal value:
-Ba 101 59.20 2448 3326 49741 8646 94.8 1.204

 

[5shot]

I was surprised at the results I got from Dr. Mike in regards to RL17 and the heavier weights. I found a little hole in the wall that had 6 lbs of it on the shelf. Picked up a jug to try in my 35 WAI.

 

[SJB358]

17 is what another buddy runs in his Whelen with 225's. it's a case full but very accurate.



That was one of the last groups he sent me.

 

[JD338]

I'm loading the Hornady 250 gr SP with 59.0 grs RL15 in my M700 Classic 35 Whelen and getting 2575 fps and sub MOA accuracy. Its a potent load.

JD338

 

[preacher]

That sounds like a great load Uncle JD! I see that R15 59gr recommended in a lot of places. I have read some disappointing things about the temp sensitivity of R17...I have a couple pounds but so far, top velocities in some cartridges are just not accurate. Bummer. I have some 250 Woodleigh's on the way, plus I still have some 250 partitions I got from Scotty. I'm hoping I can get best accuracy around 2500fps.