Questions on Enduron powder in 30-06

[Nimrod84]

Hi, I’m getting back into reloading after a 10 year hiatus and I have a bushel of questions regarding load recipes with the newer IMR Enduron powders. I think I’m looking for a reality check and general guidance at this point, rather than Quick Load data which would need to be correlated to my brass H20 capacity, powder burn rate, etc.

I was given a pound of IMR 4955 and IMR 4451 and a directive to try them in a 30-06 (with a 180 grain Nosler Partition for an upcoming Elk hunt).

From Hodgdon's reloading data, I am under the impression that IMR 4955 is better suited than IMR 4451 in the 30-06 with a 180 grain bullet. Additionally it looks like I should approach 59-60 grains of 4955 as a max charge with the 180 grain Nosler Partition.

Any suggestions or insight is appreciated as to how I can best utilize these powders. I know to start low and when in doubt start even lower. I'm trying to make sure I'm not pursuing a dead mule, i.e. a bad combination. For example I use H414 quite a bit in the 30-06 with CCI 200 primers, but H414 in my 280 Remington gives me hang fires with the same batch of CCI 200 primers, CCI 250 mag primers take care of the hang fires but open up the ES.

My components options are:
30-06 – 22” barrel
COAL – unknown at this point. A 165 grain load I have for his rifle likes to be around 3.2-3.28”; load uses cheap bullets which give the large variation.
180 grain NP with cannelure (2nds from SPS)
new and once fired Remington brass
new CCI 200 or new Federal 210 primers
IMR 4451, 4955 (H4831sc with 60-61 grains max).

I do have some H4831sc which I can use as a backup powder if the IMR powders don't pan out. I think the H4831sc would max out around 60-61 grains depending on bullet seating depth.

Thank you,
Nimrod84

 

[Vince]

My rifle likes IMR 4350 with the 180 grain pills.
The new 4451 is close to the same burn rate but you won't know what your rifle likes until you try it.

Vince


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[Rol_P]

IMR4451 produces 2,730fps in my 24" 30-06 with 180gr Partitions and very good, sub MOA, accuracy. 56.6 grains in New Nosler cases get me to 2,730, once fired cases produced a 2,760 fps average. Good luck, Rol

 

[Nimrod84]

Thank you for the feedback and the luck. It is a little unnerving getting back into the game with limited amounts of powder and a single source of load data for those powders.

Rol_P do you mind divulging your brand of primer?

 

[Rol_P]

Federal large rifle primers. Upon inquiry most replies were along the lines there should be no significant variation when changing to other brands.

 

[Vince]

<~~~~~ Uses Winchester primers.



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[Billyram]

WLR primers seem to fit better in Nosler 30-06 brass than Fed primers and I find are just as accurate. I do use Fed. 210 primers in Fed brass. "Once my favorite 30-06 brass" Till I tried Nosler.
Billy

 

[Nimrod84]

Thank you for the feedback guys.

FYI - I've seen some notable differences show up with powder and primer combinations (I assume cases and bullet weight had an impact as well); so I do like to check compatibility. The most notable example I've had is CCI 200's with H414 in my 30-06 shoots 165 bulk Remington PSP to my satisfaction, but in my 280 Rem the same primers and powder hang fire with every bullet I've tried (120-160 grainers).

I couldn't hazard a guess as to why my H414 hang fires in my 280 Rem; and yes, I did try CCI 250 mag primers per the Speer and another manuals recommendation. The mag primers helped a little but not enough for me to justify load development using H414 in that rifle. That 280 Rem got IMR 4831 for the heavier bullets and all was right as rain with her - at least until the powder ran out...

 

[DrMike]

I would suggest that you check to ensure that the primers are seated firmly against the bottom of the primer pocket. CCI primers, being constructed with a steel cup, sometimes fail to seat well in certain brands of brass (tolerances of pockets, etc. restrict ready seating).

 

[Nimrod84]

DrMike,

Thank you for the suggestion. I'll get some Federal 210 primers to play with, the Gander Mountain that is kinda close to me only carries Federal 210 and CCI 200. I need to put some road time in for a gunshow or a Cabela's or Jay's visit to get WLR or anything else in quantity. I did not know CCI used steel cups and were tough to consistently seat; they have been my standby for years as I have M1's which supposedly don't deal well with Federal "soft" primers.

At this point I just use extruded powder in the 280 Rem and she stays happy. This was an issue about 11 years ago, but I rediscovered it last month when I was too lazy empty the hopper. I did a ladder test of an old 30-06 load and kept the H414 in the hopper for some 280 Rem work-ups. When the hang fires showed in the 280 Rem, I pulled bullets, ran the primed brass through my Lee hand primer (all seemed tight) and worked through a few potential issues. I even looked at the de-capping pin, I thought maybe it was to low and deforming the primer pocket during re-sizing.

My experience is that the 280 Rem I own, brass and bullet combos I have tried seem to function fine with extruded powders.

 

[DrMike]

As an aside, both the CCI and Federal primers use steel cups; either can be hard to seat in some brass. Rather than invest in more primers, ensure that you true the pocket and then ensure that the primer is seated to the bottom of the pocket. It is easy to miss this in some instances as the seating process meets some resistance and the hand loader calls it "good enough." If the cup is not flush to the bottom of the pocket, many times the anvil will fail to crush and ignite upon being struck by the firing pin.

 

[Rol_P]

I true primer pockets as part of normal case prep. I will be switching to CCI primers shortly as I am low on Federals and have been unable to find more.

 

[super-7]

Although I have had good luck with Wlr primers lots of people won't use them and there was a recall on some batches a few years back.
I can't give any advise on enduron powders as I have yet to play with them. But any reading I have done shows the should be quite easy to work with. The best way would be to start doing load work ups.
Partitions are pricey so I would by a couple boxes of 180gr Sierra Pro-Hunters or the Flat base 180 gr interlock. And seeing how your powder and primer combinations work . That should cut down on some of the experimenting with the Partitions.


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[Nimrod84]

Thank you for the suggestions.

Super-7, I've seen a few scattered reports of the Enduron powders being ornery and showing pressure signs before the "book" max in high pressure cartridges (Magnums, 270 Win, etc.). The few reports could be from people having issues on the reloading bench, but the Hodgdon 2016 annual magazine notated that the burn rate for H4831 and IMR 4955 could switch in the same cartridge with different bullets.

So while I know these powders should be kind and gentle beasts; I also know that Murphy is my roommate and I've been away from reloading. Formulations and other things change over time. So, I feel much more comfortable knowing the experiences & suggestions of others who know the current components. I did not know about the WLR primer recall! I'll see if I can grab some cheap flat base 180's to experiment with (MidwayUSA seems to have some); I know the local store doesn't have any. I bought all their bullets last week - a mostly full box of 162 grain 7mm SST.

Thank you again, I sure appreciate the thoughts and recommendations.

 

[rodell]

I switched exclusively to 4451 in the 30-06 with 180 AB's. Works just fine. I've run up and down the recommended values with no problems.

Even though it contains a copper-reducing agent, the stuff is still dirty. I'm for anything that reduces my cleaning workload, though.

 

[Nimrod84]

Thanks for the info Rodell. I appreciate it.