Shooting Technique

[SJB358]

Pretty good article. Really enjoyed reading it. What do you all think of it?

http://www.ballisticstudies.com/Knowled ... orend.html

 

[truck driver]

Thanks for the link Scotty. It brings back old memories. I tend to use both styles of gripping the rifle depending on the rest I have available at the time.

 

[wildgene]

...good article, I'm still a firm believer in "Basic Marksmanship", a good foundation in the fundamentals first, then "problem solving" field positions...

 

[HOGWILD338-378]

Hey I have been reading that website for a while now and under knowledge you will find many other great articles as well as this one Scotty has linked and most everything I read sounds like it's well written ! Lotta great articles and been on my bookmarks for a while. :grin: trying to get me in prone is not very pretty and just too painful :lol:

 

[Darkhorse]

I agree with parts of it. I was taught his method of sitting and prone because you can get a "bone on bone" or "bone on ground" rest which when practised can be a very solid rest.
I always hold the forend somewhere, sometimes by the front sling swivel. Especially when shooting anything that kicks back such as my .308 and the magnums. I also use a sling that I can wrap my arm in for offhand, sitting and prone. But I be sure to have a free floating barrel with enough stock stiffness that my sling pressure doesn't bear against the barrel.
I don't agree with his assertion that if one sights in from a sandbag then if he rests the forearm on his hand, a rock, or tree limb, it will adversely effect his POI.
I have heard this same thing my whole life and I am closing on 62. I never saw it growing up shooting squirrels, propping against a tree trunk, with my grand dad who taught me to do it that way. And I have never seen evidence of it since.
I have seen people sight in with a good group off bags, then go to the field and miss, miss, miss, but not because of how they sighted in but because they just couldn't shoot.
I sighted in off an old pillow once in Colorado and 2 days later drilled a bull elk hitting POI at 400 yards, while propped on a cedar limb.
Maybe it's just learned technique and trying to keep the hold stressfree when sighting in or field shooting.
I recently read an article on accurateshooter.com where someone tested this very thing. Included were photos of the groups and the rests used. The results pretty much validates my position on this.

 

[Guy Miner]

Darkhorse - I'm a huge fan of the shooting sling. Dad taught me and the Marines reinforced it, then I got more of it in NRA Highpower competition. Only natural that it's my preferred way to shoot afield too.

I often sight in, resting the rifle on my pack, sandbags or even a bipod.

I don't see any measurable shift in Point of Impact when I sling up and shoot...

Guy

 

[maverick2]

Good read. A lot of food for thought in that, and a lot that can be applied.

 

[sask boy]

Thank you for the link. It sure brought back some of the basics, I am glad that I was read as it was a very good refresher.

Blessings,
Dan

 

[Guy Miner]

Frankly, this is a subject that doesn't get discussed, or taught, nearly as much as it should.

We like our pretty rifles, cool scopes and well crafted ammo... And we should... But really, some time with a good marksmanship coach, and sending a thousand rounds of ammo downrange would benefit most of us tremendously.

Guy

 

[DrMike]

Frankly, this is a subject that doesn't get discussed, or taught, nearly as much as it should.

We like our pretty rifles, cool scopes and well crafted ammo... And we should... But really, some time with a good marksmanship coach, and sending a thousand rounds of ammo downrange would benefit most of us tremendously.

Guy

Well said, and absolutely correct.

 

[JD338]

Good read Scotty.

JD338

 

[Darkhorse]

Guy, back in the day a lot of counties in Central Ga. had gun clubs and there was a circuit of matches usually once a month at different clubs. We even had people from the Special Marksmanship army unit at Ft. Benning show up at a few. For those matches I used a military sling that cinched around the bicep. But for the last 40 years or so I've used a Hunter sling. The one that slides through leather rings instead of using buckles. I usually carry a rifle with the proper sling length so I can "Sling Up" immediately. Maybe not quite as solid as the other sling but it steadys you up pretty good. This is photo has the sling in it. My favorite sling is just like this but much more worn and slings up much better. It is usually on my .308


There are a couple of other forums I sometimes check into but they are not as friendly or knowledgeable as the Nosler forum. Often when I read a post where someone is complaining I can read right through it to the root of the problem. "Not enough rounds downrange".
Rounds off a bench can help. It teaches you things like, cheek weld, trigger control, breath control, and squeezing through heartbeats. But to really learn to shoot one must get off the bench.
There is no substitute for thousands of rounds fired at bullseye targets from position. The more you shoot the more it all just falls into place when a shot presents itself.
Offhand is the man killer. I practice offhand more than any other position. I do most of my practice now with a .40 Flintlock. Trust me, offhand with a flintlock will teach you to concentrate on your target, trigger squeeze and follow through. It will either teach you or drive you insane.
And after a few hundred rounds downrange with the flinter, I find I pick up a scoped rifle and just plain shoot it better.

 

[longrangehunter]

Good read. I agree, some of it will depend on what you're shooting, caliber, weight of the rifle, etc. and where you're shooting- what's available to use with you and around you? A lot of it is a thinking mans game, while being quick on your feet and what you know as a marksman? For me, marksmanship means what I know I'm capable of in a repeatable fashion at a known distance.

I was taught old school back in 1970 using a .22 LR. and a sling, I wasn't even eight years old at the time. I was sent off to camp for eight weeks, but I learned a lot. I was shooting every other day and walked away with my Marksman and Pro-Marksman. Now jump forward 43 years later and a lot more time shooting from various field and different hunting conditions. My equipment has become a lot better and so have I but practice is still practice.

Honestly there aren't a lot of short cuts, good marksmanship takes time and practice. It also takes good repeatable equipment. I recently had a guy that was a lot younger then me, whom was a very good marksman, tell me that my this or that is all wrong and I need to be doing this and that like this? I listened to Charlie and took his advice, but what worked for him, shooting his gun, didn't actually apply to what I was shooting? I had to apply what would put a bullet downrange on target with what I was using!

Take the article Scotty put up about the trigger finger position. I had learned to use the tip of my index finger, yet this guy wanted me to have my index finger at right angles to the trigger. Did this help? No, we had two completely different rifle stocks, his was an A-5 made for prone shooting and I had a factory rifle stock gun. His was a very heavy tactical rifle in 6mm XC and I was shooting a 11 lbs. 7mm-08 with no break. He was about my height and weight but I have a 29" reach and shoulders as wide as a line backer.

Another thing he brought up was getting directly behind the rifle so my body was in a straight line behind it for better recoil control. For me to shoot like he wanted, I'd have to have the butt of the rifle up against my collarbone in order to get a clear sight picture through the scope. For someone like myself with arms like a gorilla and shoulders like one, that doesn't always work in every field condition, I can in some instances but not all. The terrain will dictate a lot of what you'll need to be doing with your body and support of the rifle in order to get off a clean shot.

Which in real terms, if your body and the sight picture aren't in a natural shooting position with your head clearly down on the stock and in direct line behind the scope and your target.... things don't go well. Sometimes you'll need to move your body into position in order to get the rifle in the correct position it will naturally belong in for a correct sight picture.

Even though advise from someone is sound advise, applying it for your own good use will still take a little tweaking in some instances. Learning to apply what works and what doesn't comes with practice. Becoming a good filed marksman still requires some basic shooting skills, but you'll still need to be creative, sometime in an unorthodox method, utilizing whatever surroundings might assist you and/or gear you'll have to form a solid shooting platform to work from.

If I had any one thing to apply to sound marksmanship it would be get yourself and your rifle with as much support under both as humanly possible. Any added support in any position, even prone, will help you maintain that position longer. The move comfortable it is the longer you can maintain that position and the better you'll shoot.

Practice isn't about the number of rounds down range either, rather using what's between your ears to be a more effective marksman is. If nothing else dry firing would be more beneficial then raw numbers of rounds fired. By that I mean if you can't call the shot when you pull the trigger, burning up ammo isn't the answer. I almost always take at least one dry fire shot before letting rounds fly down range. More if the pull sucks and I call the shot a miss.

Good luck all and keep'm in the Ten Ring.

 

[SJB358]

I wished I had some pictures from early on, but I would bet I spent a few thousand if not more times of dry firing the M16A1 before I fired the first live round from the rifle. Literally we spent from 0630 till 1700L dry firing the rifle before we were handed ammunition. We used a 55 gallon barrel with size specific targets painted on the barrel in order to represent the size of the target at 200-300 and 500 meters. I tell ya, I thought I knew how to shoot until I learned and embraced what the Marine Corps taught me. Using a sling was a known and expected. I learned to really like using the sling.

Between running a proper sling and taking alot of time dry firing the rifles, I feel like I am much better with my rifles. The dry firing really helps though. I can't say it enough. People spend alot of time trying to shoot little tiny groups which is alot of fun, but spending the time dry firing really lets you know when that trigger will break. I still spend alot of time dry firing between shots while shooting groups in order to know when that trigger is going to break. Some folks say they wanna be surprised when it breaks, I wanna know!

 

[Too Tall]

Guy wrote a good article on using a sling to shoot, a few years ago. As with everything Guy writes, it is well writen with pictures.

 

[truck driver]

I wished I had some pictures from early on, but I would bet I spent a few thousand if not more times of dry firing the M16A1 before I fired the first live round from the rifle. Literally we spent from 0630 till 1700L dry firing the rifle before we were handed ammunition. We used a 55 gallon barrel with size specific targets painted on the barrel in order to represent the size of the target at 200-300 and 500 meters. I tell ya, I thought I knew how to shoot until I learned and embraced what the Marine Corps taught me. Using a sling was a known and expected. I learned to really like using the sling.

Between running a proper sling and taking alot of time dry firing the rifles, I feel like I am much better with my rifles. The dry firing really helps though. I can't say it enough. People spend alot of time trying to shoot little tiny groups which is alot of fun, but spending the time dry firing really lets you know when that trigger will break. I still spend alot of time dry firing between shots while shooting groups in order to know when that trigger is going to break. Some folks say they wanna be surprised when it breaks, I wanna know!

I have to agree with you on this one Scotty. Knowing when the trigger/ sear breaks is a plus. I learned a lot from the Marine pistol team along with the AMU pistol teams on trigger control. That is one reason so many people have trouble shooting a 1911 in .45acp accurately. Put a red dot on the slide of a 1911 and watch it dance on the target when you don't execute proper trigger control or don't know when it breaks. Find someone who shoots competition NRA Bullseye and ask to dry fire their 1911 with a dot on it and you will know what I mean. The only surprise is how clean the hammer and sear break. :mrgreen: I use my sling a lot when off hand rifle shooting and sometimes from different rest positions.

 

[Guy Miner]

I wished I had some pictures from early on, but I would bet I spent a few thousand if not more times of dry firing the M16A1 before I fired the first live round from the rifle. Literally we spent from 0630 till 1700L dry firing the rifle before we were handed ammunition. We used a 55 gallon barrel with size specific targets painted on the barrel in order to represent the size of the target at 200-300 and 500 meters. I tell ya, I thought I knew how to shoot until I learned and embraced what the Marine Corps taught me. Using a sling was a known and expected. I learned to really like using the sling.

Between running a proper sling and taking alot of time dry firing the rifles, I feel like I am much better with my rifles. The dry firing really helps though. I can't say it enough. People spend alot of time trying to shoot little tiny groups which is alot of fun, but spending the time dry firing really lets you know when that trigger will break. I still spend alot of time dry firing between shots while shooting groups in order to know when that trigger is going to break. Some folks say they wanna be surprised when it breaks, I wanna know!

Good stuff right there. People who haven't done the long sessions of "snapping in" might be amazed to see dozens, hundreds, of Marines on the grass, aiming at little black silhouettes painted on white 55 gallon drums... Prone, sitting, kneeling and standing. All of them with slings rigged and working on getting their positions down, the sling tight, and ingraining that sight picture & trigger pull. Does it work? Oh yeah! Belly down at prone with factory iron sights on the M-16 and put all shots into the kill zone on a man size target at 500 yards! You bet it works!

Guy

 

[truck driver]

You guys may think I'm full of it but back in 1969 when I went threw Basic training we were issued M14's and taught to properly sling a rifle and lock in. In the final course of fire the M14 flash suppressor cracked and left the rifle leaving me with out a front sight which is part of the suppressor. I still manage to hit pop up targets out to 300yds with out a front sight till a range Officer pulled my rifle for being unsafe to shoot even after telling me how I was making good shots with out the sight. Back then we were trained to shoot with out sights in drills called quick kill. We were also being trained to go to war in east Asia. With out trigger control you couldn't hit the broad side of a barn with out sights.

 

[SJB358]

I wished I had some pictures from early on, but I would bet I spent a few thousand if not more times of dry firing the M16A1 before I fired the first live round from the rifle. Literally we spent from 0630 till 1700L dry firing the rifle before we were handed ammunition. We used a 55 gallon barrel with size specific targets painted on the barrel in order to represent the size of the target at 200-300 and 500 meters. I tell ya, I thought I knew how to shoot until I learned and embraced what the Marine Corps taught me. Using a sling was a known and expected. I learned to really like using the sling.

Between running a proper sling and taking alot of time dry firing the rifles, I feel like I am much better with my rifles. The dry firing really helps though. I can't say it enough. People spend alot of time trying to shoot little tiny groups which is alot of fun, but spending the time dry firing really lets you know when that trigger will break. I still spend alot of time dry firing between shots while shooting groups in order to know when that trigger is going to break. Some folks say they wanna be surprised when it breaks, I wanna know!

Good stuff right there. People who haven't done the long sessions of "snapping in" might be amazed to see dozens, hundreds, of Marines on the grass, aiming at little black silhouettes painted on white 55 gallon drums... Prone, sitting, kneeling and standing. All of them with slings rigged and working on getting their positions down, the sling tight, and ingraining that sight picture & trigger pull. Does it work? Oh yeah! Belly down at prone with factory iron sights on the M-16 and put all shots into the kill zone on a man size target at 500 yards! You bet it works!

Guy

Guy, remember being wore out and stretched like a string after grass week! I haven't don't drills to that extent of snapping in, in a long time. I'd imagine it would take a little time to get it back! Ha

 

[HTDUCK]

Funny when I went through Basic in 81 at Ft Jackson I got reprimanded and dressed down by a Drill Sergeant for using a sling.......

Also until recently, shooting off a bench my left hand was pretty much always on top of the scope.


Thanks for the link Scotty.
Interesting read.