The Good and The Not So Good- The 350JR Wildcat Endeavor

[350JR]

Well Gang, both my 700 Classic and my friend, Jim's Remington 673 in the 350JR wildcat arrived at our FFL today. It's only been "a few months" but, to say the least, its been a "trying time" for yours truly.

I hope, as I add to this thread that the end result is a bit more satisfying than it is at present. A few "things" did not end up as intended and I must point the blaming finger at myself, for the most part.

There is a bit of a dark cloud hovering on the project at this point but on the lighter side, there have also been a couple unexpected blessings that I previously was not aware of.

The rifle was purchased and went straight from the seller to the gunsmith chosen to set back and rechamber the 350 Rem mag in my brainstorm, the 350JR. A simple shortening, no other changes, of the original round, the 350 mag.

The photos shown to me, showed a very nice kept but very "blond" looking stock but the deal was struck and off she went to the gunsmith.

A full description of the round wanted, complete with NO other changes other than being shorter was discussed with the gunsmith. Same neck length of .355, no changes at all other than the shoulder being set back .375 inches and trimmed to 1.795. A "dummy" round of these dimensions from new brass had a case capacity of 58.7 grains of h20 and it was thought that perhaps, a slight gain on that would be gotten from fired and neck sized brass.

When the smith asked for the redding dies to be returned to him after he had shortened them to give the required length, I should have seen this big red flag waving at me but was assured the shoulder "had to be bumped JUST a bit" on the dummy rounds to get them to chamber.

In what universe a full .100 inch is a "bump", I don't know but the rifles arrived with the dies and some fired brass. A quick glance at such and I knew that the neck was "too long" and it is, because the shoulder on the round is set back considerably from the original plan.

At one point I had asked, repeatedly, to have the reamer spec sheet sent to me and was informed "he couldnt find it" and at this point, one is demanded but let's face it. It's too late.

I said from the beginning that a high end velocity round was not the GOAL but such is appreciated and Im less than tickled with a case capacity less than the original plans.

That said, I also can be quoted as saying "it is what it is" and it "will work" for our whitetail deer in Indiana, with room to spare but I'm just a little "nonplussed" about how the entire project has went and has ended.

Why a rifle barrel needs to be shortened 1.5 inches to be rechambered for a very similar round that is less than a half inch shorter than the original one, is beyond my capabilities of understanding and while again.........."it will work" a 20.5 inch barrel was not the intention. Praise the Lord I didnt send him a model SEVEN with the original 20 inch barrel!!! That came close to happening.

Another small "issue" is that the barrel on MY gun has not been recentered correctly and the sight holes are off to the right side about 1/4 inch.

The gunsmith made his best efforts to correct what he can by offering to pay for shipping to recenter the barrel (by making it shorter yet) and remove the 350 RM designation and label the barrel with "350JR" and pay return shipping out of his pocket.

But, 60 brass are loaded with medium loads to half way zero the scopes, get in a little trigger time to familiarize ourselves with the rifles, and also to give us some 1x fired brass to work loads.

All said and done? I may have to go to faster burning powder should I want to "push the envelope" on bullet velocity. I now feel the powders on hand are capable of just filling the case and shoving a bullet in it but.......time will tell.

I'll post findings as I go but wish to take this time to thank ONE and ALL for the suggestions, help and advice along the road, for now........She's HERE, I'm LOADING and it's time to get set for SEASON!

God Bless!
Steve

 

[Oldtrader3]

Steve, I can see why you would be less than satisfied with the outcome of your project. I kind of sounds like the gunsmith did not plan the project very well, certainly not for centering mounts etc. So what you ended up with is a shortened .35JR or a .350 short magnum, in effect. I offered to do the Powley Computer calculations for you which apparently were close to the same values that you got.

I do not understand either why the gunsmith had to set back two inches? My understanding for a project siudch as yours would be about 1/2 inch chamber setback, not 2 inches, but what do I know?

What range of actual velocities do you think that are will get from this round now? Just curious as to how close we were with the course estimates?

 

[350JR]

Since now approximately 1 grain below a 358 Win capacity but in a brass (I assume that doesnt change much) from a SLIGHTLY higher pressure round it COULD end up a wash. Time will tell.

A charge that was previously at the base of the neck is now half way up the neck.

Not "horrible" and I'm positive a combination of the right powders, primer, and bullet I'll be fine. I just feel like the boat was missed somewhere here and I know it wasn't due to lack of communication on my part.

Without stopping all procedure till I had the reamer specs in hand to approve, like I should have done, the blame is at least partially mine.

As is, I assumed such a simple reamer production and rechambering project had little to go awry and just trusted the reamer mfg and the gunsmith to supply a reamer and job to those specs.

The end result will still be adequate, even if not the goal that was clearly portrayed to all parties but even if there is a 100 fps loss from the expected results, there just isnt "that much" of a trajectory change for my hunting ranges and more than adequate energy still will remain. There was plenty of that from the start. A small loss will not make the round insufficient.

Velocities expected at this point are .....well, just pretty much not worried about. I'm going to just see what we get and run with it, work on it as I can.

The most important trait of any hunting rifle and load is one the hunter is accurate with and confident in. No amount of velocity will take away from or add much to that fact, IMHO.

Glass half full at this point and thankful things didnt go south on this project all together.

God Bless!

 

[Oldtrader3]

Just curous about the project, keep me posted?

...and God Bless!

 

[DrMike]

I can see where you experience would leave a bad taste in your mouth. I don't imagine that smith will get much of your business in the future. Still, I hope the round works. How did the other project for your compadre work out?

 

[350JR]

Other than the round being "off" from our desires, Jim's rifle was shortened a bit less than mine, 1 inch and for all practical purposes, looks brank new externally. Without a tape measure or opening the bolt and attempting to load a 350 mag in the chamber very few would be able to tell it's had work done on it.

For my own peace of mind. If one rifle had to be a little off, I'm glad it was mine. Had a long time friend invested money and hopes in a round of my creation and ended up with something slightly less AND a dinged up rifle, I'd be much more perturbed than I am. In all actuallity, Jim isn't upset about this situation at all. Only the "creator" feels like his wishes were not honored.

The more I sit and contemplate, while I'm not especially happy with the service, I suspect we will lose precious little in performance in our hunting loads. While Id have seen what I COULD get out of the original round planned, I would not have loaded the hunting loads to the hilt for our uses here.

Perhaps the largest thing that will change is I may now feel the desire to do so with a slightly less capacity round, depending of course, on the performance we receive out of loads that group well.

If the best groups gotten by our current powders are somewhat sluggish IMO in the speed department, I may do a little juggling on powder types and burn rates to improve upon it. While many do this naturally, it is not my norm.

I may have made it sound worse than it is???? I keep attempting to view the glass half full. More stress at this point I do NOT need.

Just slapping some loads together to form the brass etc etc, I was capable of loading max 358W charges for a 250 grain bullet of one powder, plus one grain, in the round but instead stuck a 180 grain bullet on it.

There ARE powders that I'll still be able to get max charges for a 358 Win in this round so while my tender, feeble sense of "what is right and what is wrong" may be offended at this time for the money spent, the round will still perform well enough, even if perhaps not to the previous expectations.

Actually it is rather embarrassing to say this but I rather doubt in hunting situations, especially at our ranges and for our needs, this ol trigger squeezer would be able to tell the difference......other than perhaps in the recoil. :|

Ok, 6:30 AM Jim ol buddy. Time to get your arse up and lets get to shooting! I've got loads to work.

I wonder if I touched off a couple outside their bedroom window would get me any brownie points with his wife?? :lol:

Hopefully I'm not boring anyone to tears here.
God Bless
Steve

 

[DrMike]

I wouldn't taunt the lady of the house; it is a good way to discover wrath--unprecedented wrath.

 

[FOTIS]

I hope it meets your expectations on the target and on the chrony.

The off center sights though.............no can do.

 

[350JR]

I hope it meets your expectations on the target and on the chrony.

The off center sights though.............no can do.

Eh, as said, it will kill deer even if trajectory is an inch, inch and a half more.
My "normal" ranges are under 125, more often about 75 yards.

Looking at it........yep, its annoying.

Ive thoughts, since "too short" too (not really just seems like it) and this was/is my 60th BDAY present to myself, I think Im going to keep an eye out for a 14 twist, SS, .358 bore barrel.....AND find a new gunsmith for next year. (WHEN I can put the funds together to spare.)

I might be a big slow on the uptake......but I DO LEARN.

GodBless
Steve

 

[RiverRider]

Geeze.

I've yet to undertake a project like this and I don't foresee it happening...BUT I see a pitfall I won't need to fall into, and that being having two rifles done at once. Not throwing stones here---who could blame you for expecting to have the job done right? Maybe even just one out of two??

I think I might have expected the "smith" to make it right by coming up with another Remington barrel to be sent to another gunsmith who could hopefully do the job correctly.

This was not done at a gunshop in Michigan City, by any chance, was it? I dunno if that creature who mans the counter in there claims to be a gunsmith...I can barely give him credit as being fully human. Talk about the south end of a northbound horse!

I don't know why so many smiths have trouble with chamber dimensions and headspace, but I've seen it more than once. I guess there's just little comprehension of numbers now that a couple of generations have grown up with calculators.

Oh well...I know what the hunting is like in Indiana and you definitely do not need a 7mm STW in that neck of the woods. Maybe the error will turn out to be one of those inexplicable strokes of luck and it will all work out perfectly.

Good luck!

 

[350JR]

Small update.
Both on the rifle, the round, a little bit of shooting.....and a certain 350JR owner's ignorance (aka absentmindedness......no it is NOT senility just yet! )

Off we went to the excellent range approximately 35 miles from our homes at the Winimac Game Area.

If in the area anytime, one must stop in and see this FREE range we are able to jump into and use.

For us rednecks in N. IN, cement slabs with roofs over them, nice heavy wood benches, SIDEWALKS no less from the bench area to the bunker/target board (even on the 200 yard bench!) and even port-a-potty type "privies".........its kinda like heaven on earth, MOST DAYS.

A few weeks before season, mid 60s, a Sunday afternoon and OH MY GOSH, it was sphincter deep to a tall giraffe in shooters having at it and sitting waiting on a free bench. 30 shot clip 22 rimfire rifles were rat-tat-tatting on the 25 and 50 yard ranges, a few front loaders were Ka-WHOOMing away,smoke a rolling and one guy with a 458 SOCOM slamming big ol bullets down range.

It was really a GREAT sight seeing a couple of generations within a family sharing our sport. A couple ol geezers there were shooting single shot 44 mag rifles, young at heart and talking about "that big boy" they are hunting.

What is WASN'T was a day for me to fiddle and diddle around adjusting the scope on the rifle, needing to shoot three different ranges from short range to get the scope close, then 100 yards to try a few groups with the "nothing" loads I have loaded up (more on THAT later) just for the heck of it and I can't ever get away without a group or two on the 200 yard bench. THAT bench gives me a better idea of how a round does and how I DO with the rifle.

I'm SO used to shooting here with perhaps ONE or TWO other shooters, the constant hammering of shots does odd things to my blood pressure.....or something.

I elected to sit this one out and let Jim zero in his CVA Accura after we finally got to a single bench, then we headed for home.

With the main purpose of the trip being to get my scope "close" and end up with some 1x fired brass, I was not to be out done by the croud and asked a local farmer if I could drive out into his picked cornfield and set up an impromptu redneck range with a target taped to a box and used ye ol leaning over the hood of the truck for a "bench".

TWO things, I may, MAY have done less than perfectly, so I don't mind you guys chuckling behind your keyboards but I'm hoping you don't COMPLETELY write me off as an imbecile when / if you read this.

Not particularly in the process of working loads until I have some neck sized fired brass to work with I just stuffed some IMR4064,on top of a 215M primer, behind some 180 gr Speers seated considerably short of the lands. A fairly "slow"powder showing 44 grains, behind a 250 grain bullet as max in a 358Win, I assumed, after checking multiple other sites showing approx the same stats, that 45 grains would be a fairly LIGHT load with my 180 gr bullet and , for the most part, still do.

I had checked the loaded neck diameter on my rounds and had measured the fired brass the smith had sent. Looks good. Actually very good. .387-.388 loaded and .390 fired. Dang near perfect to my knowledge of such and my fired brass showed hardly any brass stretch going on and identical diameters, with no head expansion. Zip. All looks good. After all this is a "light load"

What I was NOT expecting, nor prepared for was the frikkin RECOIL felt leaning over hood of the truck!! LIGHTLOADMYBUSTED>>>>>you know what. Calculations of such show something around 20lbs of recoil with such a load. IT DID NOT by any stretch of the imagination feel like "20lbs".

After a few at 25, then 50, a couple more at 100, I thought, for chits and giggles I'd just shoot a group to see if this rifle is going to come even close to groups, or if it's going to spray a pattern. (Seems like my "faith" in my gunsmith has taken a slump).

I'm aware that shooting PRONE, recoil can be a sucker but just didn't think I'd experience similar leaning over my truck hood. By the time I got to trying a group, only 12 rounds into the box, I had to concentrate on not flinching! This was starting to flat SMART when I squeezed the trigger.

This rifle and round holds 3 down and one in the chamber so, this the the group I shoot. Testing the rifle, trigger,load and feed all in one session.

At 100 yards, I cannot come close to seeing bullet holes, but I KNEW the last two had some flinch involved. :roll: (Ok you can laugh now!)

But, all in all, the bad with the good, it shows it may have some promise down the road with a little work, IMHO, for a hunter.

(Feel free to offer constructive critisizm........that would be a large part of the entire thread).

I DO know, some shooting is going to happen this week practicing my STANDING "leaner" shots or off my shooting chair.
Once serious "group" shooting is needed......I'll be on Jim's Lead Sled.

Ahem......I may not make mention of the PREVIOUSLY mentioned "loss of powder capacity" either. :wink: I'M GOOD!

Considering the scope power, the Non-worked upload, first time shooting it and the redneck bench.......I feel it will "do", when all said and done.

 

[DrMike]

Well, it sounds as if things may be looking up. Now, go get a deer!

 

[350JR]

A short inquiry with the smith gave me information I kind of wish the seller of the 700 Classic 350RM would have shared.

I asked about the barrel length and he admitted he should have said something.
Not only had this rifle been glass bedded and the trigger worked, the original owner had also had it slightly set back and custom chambered in the same round. That's some information I kinda would have liked to have BEFORE I rechambered it. :roll: But regardless that is why it's just a bit shorter than I anticipated.

Anyway, onward.
I've been working loads with IMR 8208 Xbr and as yet, I've had zero pressure signs. No velocity tests yet. Ive got approx1.0- 1.5 grains or so to go before I'll be at powder compression status.

It's raining, very warm so thought I'd do an impromptu "bullet test" on the .358 225gr NBT out of my 350JR.

round 350JR
powder 46.5 grains IMR8208
primer Fed 215M
bullet 225 gr Nosler ballistic tip
Distance 50 yards

HARDLY any kind of comparable medium but just used some items on hand to create something showing the bullet expansion and capabilities to hold together through a mix of material.

1 One inch thick hardback file folder with old files
2.5/8 inch thick pressboard shelving material with linoleum top
3. One full gallon jug of water
4. Another 5/8 thick pressboard shelf.

Bullet entrance on File folder

Bullet Exit on File folder

Bullet entrance on 1st pressboard shelf

Bullet Exit on 1st pressboard shelf

Bullet Exit ( I think) on Gallon jug of water

What was left of the gallon jug

Bullet Entrance to 2nd pressboard shelf behind the water jug
I had to hold the pieces together to show this entrance. Shelf was blown in half.
No idea where the bullet ended up other than it kept going.

APPEARS to me that "this dog will HUNT!"

I'll get some chrony readings once I get out and it's not raining.
God Bless

A short addition too. This is a LOT more fun shooting offhand compared to leaning over the hood of my truck! Recoil reminds me of a 20 gauge shotgun, and quite comfortable. (Whew). :mrgreen:

 

[DrMike]

It looks to be a devastating round on deer. I do believe you are correct--that dog will hunt.

 

[RiverRider]

Recoil on the top side of the shoulder can feel pretty wicked when it's really not bad at all in a normal stance or shooting position. I had a Marlin 336 put the hurt on me once when shooting over the top of a truck. Homey don't play dat no more!