what would you do?

[kendog]

Okay gun gurus, you have given me the bug so now I ask for some advice. There is another thread on here similar to this and I gave my 2 cents on it but it's easy to give it to someone else. :wink:
My new 7mm08 is a beautiful little gun but it will not shoot bullets lighter than 150 grains. Just got back from the range and even my 150 load was not up to par, the temperature is lower than the last time up so that is what I blame that on. It's a M70 featherweight I should add.
My question is this, take this gun to a smith and see if he can work a miracle, put a new barrel on it or just see if I can unload it and find another to frig with? I like the trigger and just about everything about this rifle, just not pleased with the accuracy, at all. It's a hunter so I really like how light it is, I could put up with a tad more weight on the barrel if that is what it took.
My last featherweight was a 30-06 and it shot really well, with everything I fed it, so that is kinda what I expected from this one.

 

[1Shot]

If you like everything about it except it's accuracy then I would barrel it with a good barrel.

 

[rick smith]

Bed the action, float the barrel, polish the crown.Rick.

 

[nodak7mm]

KenDog,

Rick is right on, & I agree with you on the temp issue - leads me to think PSI/FPS is a contributing factors. However, us armchair QB's need more info to help :lol: :lol: :lol:

What bullets have you tried?
What powders have you tried?
Seating depths?

And then the questions that need to be asked, such as; Are you reloading? If so, whats your reloading experience?

Just trying to fill in the blanks..

Rod

 

[kendog]

Well now, it came with factory 140s, winchester I think, still have half a box, barely hit the paper. Bought 130 speers, not much better, used most of the 100 in the box with cci 200s, wlr and rem 9 1/2 primers and imr 4350, 4064, w760, rl19 & 15. Seating depth is approx 10 thou off the lands, didn't play with that much.
The 150 BTs I had good luck with imr4350 and when I ran out I got the vit N150 as the burn rate is close, I used the above powders along with w748 and whatever else I have on the bench, H380 was even tryed with one combo or another.
I had decent luck with 175 Sierras as well with one of more of the above powders. I am always dealing with the same basic cartridge so my powders are all along those lines.
I am not a loading guru but I started loading for my handgun 20+ years ago and then rifles about 16 years ago. NOT a gunsmith but I am mech. inclined, but NOT a gunsmith. :?
I have a B & L 2.5x 10 on it in Leupold dual dovetail rings and bases, I have used this on a few rifles and do not question that part at all.

 

[Guy Miner]

I like Rick's idea of bedding it and free-floating the barrel.

Would also ask if you've tried 160's? They're a classic choice for a 7mm and work well on a wide variety of game.

I've never loaded for the 7mm-08, but dang, most reports I get about it show it to have superb accuracy potential. It was the darling of the silhouette shooters in the 1980's & 1990's, out to 500 meters.

Guy

 

[kendog]

The barrel is free floating now and no, haven't tryed the 160s yet. I was wanting speed and wasn't looking to go as heavy as I am but most of my deer have been killed just off the muzzle.
The targets is what I really want to shoot.

 

[JD338]

I also agree that you should float the barrel and bed the action.

Try shimming the action with a couple business cards, enough to float the barrel.
You might really surprise yourself.

JD338

 

[Guy Miner]

Sierra makes a 168 grain Matchking in 7mm dia that is a terrific long range target bullet for the 7's.

Nosler's 160 gr AccuBond is a little expensive for target shooting, but is also remarkably accurate.

Bedding a Model 70 can be an art form, that flat-bottomed receiver can be very sensitive to bedding problems. They work terrific when they're well bedded.

Guy

 

[Silent Sam]

You haven't mentioned seating depth. Can you reach the rifling with the bullet you want to use and still have a caliber length in the neck and cycle through the magazine? Have you cleaned the bore of all fouling? Pull the stock and look for contact points that would indicate movement or pressure where there shouldn't be any. Inspect the crown. I would do all the easy, free things first before I moved to doing any permanent changes. Whatever you do only change one thing at a time or you will never know what is improving or worsening your situation.

 

[DrMike]

As much as I like the Featherweight (I have owned or now own over ten), the factory bedding consists of hot glue. On almost all my Featherweights, I've ultimately given a proper bedding job to maximize accuracy. Also, as has been mentioned, because your magazine will likely permit you to do so, load out so that you are near the lands--especially with cup and core bullets.

 

[backcountryhunter]

Did you say this is a factory 70 ? As in New Haven built ? Chrome Moly action & barrel ? There is a well known reason the New Haven plant went under ...

B T W - I LOVE model 70's !!

 

[SJB358]

I also agree that you should float the barrel and bed the action.

Try shimming the action with a couple business cards, enough to float the barrel.
You might really surprise yourself.

JD338

I echo Jims last. Shim it out and shoot again. It seems like it is being REALLY picky. I don't think any rifle should be that picky, even with a load it doesn't like, it should not go over 3" groups. I just dealt with the same deal in a CDL. Pillared and bedded the recoil lug/tang. Now it shoots as it is supposed to. Everything is 2" and under, so load work comes in here, but the rifle shows it wants to shoot.

Pillars and bedding is really easy, even a Marine can do it easy! Don't give up on it. If it has shot well before, it just needs some attention to the bedding. It sounds like a sweet heart of a rifle. put a few credit card shims under the action and see what it does. If it settles in and shoots, you know what you have to do next.


How did I do fellers! His story sounds kinda similar! Scotty

 

[Guest]

Start at the beginning, as Sam mentioned, taking care of the free stuff first. It could be a very simple fix, or it could be a bad barrel. You didn't mention what the groups look like up to this point, or how inaccurate is "inaccurate" in your view. If it's putting two in and throwing one, it could be seating depth, or barrle heat, depending on how hot the barrel is getting. There are a myriad of potential things to tell you, but assuming you're not getting consistent groups of any kind, or consistently 8 foot groups, I'd check the following, in this order:

1. Bore - be sure the bore is thoroughly clean. Use Break-Free foam or BoreTech Eliminator to get out the copper, and use Hoppe's #9 to get the carbon out. If you already cleaned it with something else, clean it with these. You'll know why I told you this after you're done.
2. Crown - be sure this is properly lapped and has no burrs. Seriously, this is a big deal and can kill accuracy.
3. Scope mounts and rings - properly torqued. This means not too tight, not too loose.
4. Scope - I know you said this one is good, but swap a known good scope on the gun and see if anything changes.
(In fact, at this point in my thought process, I'd suggest pulling the scope on this gun and re-check all the mounts and rings and swap in a "known good" scope. I'd also swap this scope onto a rifle you know shoots well and test it.)
5. Play with seating depth on some of the more promising loads. None of my guns shoot anything like accurate with the bullet very close to the lands. Most like .030-.055" jump, and some like more than that.
6. Bullet selection - Have you tried flat-based stuff? Some guns won't shoot boat-tails worth a crap and will shoot flat-based, and some vice-versa. You said it shoots 150's best so far, and you had good luck with IMR4350, so go back to that combo after cleaning the barrel and see if you can get it to shoot again. If it shoots, it's not the rifle, it's the load. Burn rate being close isn't the best way to pick a powder, in my experience. Some of my rifles like H4895, and not IMR4895, and those are pretty close in burn rate. Go figure. It's part of the magic of handloading.
6. Action and barrel bedding and floating - I know you said it's already floated, but carry a $20 with you when you go to the range (or any other denomination) and shoot the gun a couple of times, and then recheck the float. And consider having the action bedded by a good gunsmith. Not some hack in the local paper, a good gunsmith.

In reality, perhaps it's just your description, but it sounds like you've changed a lot of things, and it's been less "methodical" and more haphazard. It takes the methodical approach to solve these riddles. As has been said, change one variable at a time and work through it. I bet the 140's will shoot well with the right powder and seating depth.

If all else fails, send the rifle to me and I'll figure it out! (Of course, it might take a few years...)

 

[kendog]

Wow, thanks guys.
I am close to the lands and the barrel is very clean, I think too clean sometimes as it will shoot better by times when it is dirty but can't go out with a dirty barrel so it's gotta shoot clean. The cleaner I use is pretty strong, Barnes CR10 is a pussy in comparison, and that was the best I found before this one.
I am 10 thou off the lands, and my mag will let me go as far as I want.
My groups look awesome, if you take the 2 flyers out of a 5 shot group. I never shoot more than one shot at a time, I shot from a cold barrel, yeah, I spend a little time at the range.
The rifle was made in Morgan Utah.
My 140 factory stuff grouped like a shotgun and the 130 speers were tighter but much the same.
My 30-06 featherweight that I gave to my son was much easier. He bought himself a Venture 308 because he said it looked fun to try and figure a rifle out. Well his first handload on his new rifle grouped better than my 200th time pulling the trigger, grrr lol.
I will try to be more methodical but wow, I have loaded for a bunch of rifles and this one is not what I am used to.

 

[SJB358]

Good luck with it Ken. I would try the credit card trick and take one of your better loads that has flyers and see what it does. If you are shooting out of a cold barrel, 5 shots shouldn't matter, but 3 shots tests the rifle and 5 tests the shooter. If you are getting flyers, are they in any particular order? From my last expericence, I will never mess with a rifle any further if it wont' shoot under 2" right outta the gates. I will immediately add some pillars and glass it. No need to waster the bullets, powder and primers. It is pretty cheap to do, and it will stabilize the rifle and make it shoot as long as the barrel is straight! Scotty

 

[kendog]

The flyers are in no order, they come sometimes when I know my hold is solid. I love to shoot, I know when it is me and you can hear me curse before the bullet hits the target when I screw it.
Sometimes my 3 shot group is very nice, like 1/2 inch and just want to put a couple more there and blow it, other times I have a crappy 4 shot group and throw another and get a nice 3. It's a light barrel but as I said, one shot is all I need to kill something (oh how I wish I would have got that 25-06 Browning 1885) but it should put them close. 2" is not my idea of close and bigger than that is making it look like firewood.
I do have some very nice groups, I'll get a couple pics on here, but holy frig, I can't get the load to be consistant. I have a full length die and just partial size with it, have never done that before, either just partial neck as with the 30-06 or have 3 dies like the 308 and 243 and bump the shoulder back when needed.

 

[JD338]

I also agree that you should float the barrel and bed the action.

Try shimming the action with a couple business cards, enough to float the barrel.
You might really surprise yourself.

JD338

I echo Jims last. Shim it out and shoot again. It seems like it is being REALLY picky. I don't think any rifle should be that picky, even with a load it doesn't like, it should not go over 3" groups. I just dealt with the same deal in a CDL. Pillared and bedded the recoil lug/tang. Now it shoots as it is supposed to. Everything is 2" and under, so load work comes in here, but the rifle shows it wants to shoot.

Pillars and bedding is really easy, even a Marine can do it easy! Don't give up on it. If it has shot well before, it just needs some attention to the bedding. It sounds like a sweet heart of a rifle. put a few credit card shims under the action and see what it does. If it settles in and shoots, you know what you have to do next.


How did I do fellers! His story sounds kinda similar! Scotty

Deja Vu

It sure sounds like a bedding issue to me.

JD338

 

[SJB358]

Yep, I would do the credit card trick, just to know where I was at. At least it would rule out the bedding if it still shot the same. Scotty

 

[kendog]

Okay guys, I have a winter project now. Will check the bedding, or just say screw it and do it, then maybe add a pillar or 2? That part is Greek to me I have to admit, will have to Google that one. I feel so green now lol.