Which Rifle/Caliber Combo Is Best?

[roysclockgun]

Hello All,
When asked, I contribute to a site called "All Experts". I endeavor to give answers to questions regarding firearms, hunting and bird dogs. In various ways, I am asked the same basic question that goes something like; "I have booked a trip of Alaska to hunt big game. What rifle/cartridge combination should I buy and use?" The most recent question that I received was from a man, who after I asked some questions of my own, revealed that he'd been hunting successfully for years with his first rifle, being one chambered for 30-06. I switched the focus to reloading, telling him what a joy it is to work up loads for the 30-06, as so many different components can be used, making the 30-06 a grand cartridge to use for just about anything. I told him that with the newer bonded bullets, one can achieved the same penetration with a 180gr. bullet that one used to expect from a 220 gr. bullet of the older design. Then, I asked him what was his maximum comfortable range to take game underfire and he responded that he doubted that he would ever take a shot beyond 400 yards! He then told me that he'd narrowed his cartridge choice down to 300Wby.Mag, 338Win.Mag and 340Wby.Mag.
After gathering a bit more information from the hunter, I told him that in my opinion, he'd be best served by using the rifle that had hunted with for so long, chambered in 30-06. I further said that given his personal range limitations and his ability to hit accurately, time after time, with his 30-06, that he would never come home empty handed due to being undergunned, after using his old rifle. I encouraged him to research available bullets that are on the heavy end, to use in his 30-06 and load a number of different loads, in order find a load that would accomplish what he wanted to do.
After we chatted back and forth, he indicated to me that after our conversations, he had decided that his 30-06 would be the rifle that he would take to Alaska. I believe that he made the correct decision.
Too many times we are lured away from what works by what is touted as being better. When we look at the task and how we will use our rifle, we can many times find that old is good.
Steven

 

[1Shot]

It all depends on what he will be hunting. If I am going after big bears I would want at least a 338 Win mag in my hands. Yes a 30-06 will kill a big bear with proper bullet and placement, BUT, big bears don't always go down on the spot after taking a killing shot to the vitals. They can still get to you and kill you even though they took that killing shot. I would want something that I know will break BOTH front shoulders with one shot to put a bear out of action. A 225 or 250 Nosler Partition from a 338 Win mag will do this. A good combo bullet for most anything he would be hunting would be the 225 gr Partition. I would take along the 30-06 as a back up rifle in case something happened to the 338 Win mag.

 

[roysclockgun]

Nosler offers a 220gr. Partition in 30 cal. Given that the hunter who asked me the question, is saying that range will be restricted, and usually is anyway. The 220 gr. Nosler Partition, fired from a 30-06, at near max MV will stop any bear, if the bullet is well placed.
When the 30-06 was introduced as a hunting cartridge in the early 1900s, many thought it too powerful to use on game.
Not getting into a spitting contest here, but the craze for heavier magnum cartridges has gone way beyond need.
The only advantage that I see for the heavier magnums is down range energy, when exceptionally long range shots on heavy game is attempted, and therefore the additonal MV is needed.
Between the energy of the 220gr. 30 cal. bullet and the 225gr. 338 bullet, is there enough difference, within say 400 yards, that the bear will notice. One or two hundred fps difference in MV will not be noticed by the game. However, a marked increase in recoil is noticed by the shooter. Is that additional recoil worth the gain? I think not.
Steven

 

[Guy Miner]

Good points Steven. I've come to about the same conclusion, after thinking back through all the hunting I've done, with a variety of different rifles. Looking back at deer, wild boar, elk and now a successful bear hunt, I really could have successfully done all of those hunts with the good old .30-06 Dad first had me shooting back in the mid/late 1960's, 40+ years ago.

I still have that rifle, and my son just used it to take his first bear. A friend is using it in about ten days when I take him on his first deer hunt. It works even better now than it did 40+ years ago thanks to a lighter stock, a good Leupold scope, 5" less barrel than it had back then, a better trigger, and... my handloads with Nosler bullets. I would not hesitate to take it for any game in North America, including the big Alaskan bears.

Over the years I've done a bit of hunting with a wide variety of rifles, including fast stepping flat-shooters as well as slow moving .45/70 & muzzle loading rifles, none did anything in the field that I couldn't have done with Ol' Reliable, that first .30-06 M1917 rifle. It has however, been a LOT of fun messing with all the different rifles.

Interesting... Guy

 

[JD338]

I would agree, the 30-06 is more than capable with the correct bullet and shot placement. This is why it has been so popular for decades.
The advantage of a magnum is the ability to shoot heavier bullets at longer ranges.

JD338

 

[6mm Remington]

I believe you gave that man some sage advise! The 30-06 had plenty of muscle years ago, and now with our newer and better bullets like the 180 or 200 gr. Parttion and AccuBond, it only makes it that much more so today. I don't recall who first said this statement but it goes "beware the one gun hunter"! The 30-06 has been used to kill every big-game animal on the face of this earth and given reasonable shot distances will still do it today. Remember Jack O'Connors wife using it as her heavy rifle because she could not tolerate the heavy recoil of the larger calibers? She used the 30-06 back when they didn't have the great bullets of today to take both a tiger and an African elephant with it! As I have stated on this forum, and many of us are, we are Rifle Addicts and we enjoy the variety of different calibers and different rifles, but when it comes down to it if we each just owned a 30-06 and nothing more we could continue to hunt very happily forever!

 

[DrMike]

Now, fellers, you know that 30 calibre bullets launched from a 30-06 or a 308 just bounce off elk and moose. Why, such bullets are only marginal for whitetail and mule deer! You have to have a much bigger cartridge to bring down game. Pity all those hunters from another era who didn't know any better and managed to bring game home. They didn't realise how very lucky they were. :roll:

 

[roysclockgun]

When Guy Miner mentioned his first 30-06, as being a US Model of 1917, memories fl00ded back. In 1964, when I returned to Balitmore after 3 years in the Army, I went down to the pawn shops on Baltimore St. A pristine US 1903 Rifle would've cost me $30, but a US Model of 1917 was only $17 and it looked new, so being cash poor, I bought the Enfield. I too had the barrel whacked off 4" and installed a Fajen stock. I had the rear sight ears removed and mounted a $19.95 4X scope from "Monkey Ward". I started by shooting ground hogs and got the rifle loaded with what worked well and took a buck with it that fall. By 1968, I had to have the then fairly new Ruger 77 in 243Win, so the old M17 30-06 was sold for $100 cash. I have often thought back to that rifle and realized that I could have kept that one rifle and would've still taken all the game that I have taken. Of course, the countless rifles that have passed through my hands all helped to keep my blood rushing with the excitement of a new toy.
Currently, the only rifle that I use for anything bigger than a white tail, is an old Browning single shot B78 in 7mmRemMag. Yes, I know, I could make the same kills with my 7x57 Mauser!..........Or, I could use my 6.5x55 Swede............On the other hand, my 308 would do it all.............or

 

[FOTIS]

The problem with the 30-06 is that it is boring! Because it can do everything pretty well! :mrgreen:

 

[Ryan46]

I totally agree with Pop. Back in the 80’s I had a terrible heartburn for a .25-06 to hunt with and gently told my wife that I needed that rifle (M77 Ruger). Now, I have tried to live my life using logic and sound reasoning when making decisions about life in general and usually use it on my wife in these matters. However, when she used it on me about the rifle I was defeated. She asked “will this new rifle kill deer any more dead than your .30-06 or your .30-30?” Due to this question I did not get the .25-06 and remain without one to this date. Maybe I will secretly save up enough “scratch” to buy one now and just “fess up” that I just want one.

Happy Shooting
Ryan46

 

[roysclockgun]

Pop wrote: "The problem with the 30-06 is that it is boring! Because it can do everything pretty well! "

Pop hit the nail on the head! Two issues come into play, in terms of how many different calibers are out there. One; man is a questor and will always look for something "new and improved", no matter how good things are. And two; journalists who write about firearms always need something with which to fill up their columns and the newest "most improved" cartridge or firearm has to become grist for their mill. A gun magazine cannot be filled every month with writings extolling the virtues of the 30-06. They must write about innovation, regardless of how small a move forward that change really is, or if it is a move forward at all. Thousands of readers are out there just waiting to hear what is new and what they can buy next. Has it all been done? I think that it has all been, at least, tried. Somewhere, somebody has necked down a 50cal., M2 machine gun cartridge case to 17cal. If a rifle were to be produced to fire the thing, someone would buy it and gun writers would begin to extoll the wonderful new cartridge as the best thing to come along since sliced bread.
We have, many times, compiled a bare bones list of how many different rifle/cartrdige combinations a man would need to hunt and cleanly kill any game animal in the world. That list is always very short. Therefore, with hundreds of calibers from which to choose, there is lots of overlapping.
I am not saying that there should not be overlapping, if only to please shooters who want one of each. But, getting back to my orginal answer to the man going hunting in Alaska, one choice that we have, has to do with those who simply want to do it all, or most of it, using one firearm, without being bothered by how "boring" that may seem to others.
If memory serves, it was Jack O'Connor who first said; "Beware the man who only owns one rifle....."
Steven

 

[FOTIS]

I totally agree with Pop. Back in the 80’s I had a terrible heartburn for a .25-06 to hunt with and gently told my wife that I needed that rifle (M77 Ruger). Now, I have tried to live my life using logic and sound reasoning when making decisions about life in general and usually use it on my wife in these matters. However, when she used it on me about the rifle I was defeated. She asked “will this new rifle kill deer any more dead than your .30-06 or your .30-30?” Due to this question I did not get the .25-06 and remain without one to this date. Maybe I will secretly save up enough “scratch” to buy one now and just “fess up” that I just want one.

Happy Shooting
Ryan46

The longest I have lived without a 25-06 was about 1 month! :mrgreen:

 

[DrMike]

The longest I have lived without a 25-06 was about 1 month!

Ooooooo! You have the disease bad. There ain't no cure.

I never wanted a 30-06 because it was boring--everybody had one and there was nothing that could be done with it that hadn't already been done. I bought a CZ with a Mannlicher stock, worked up a decent load and traded it off for a Featherweight in 300 WSM. The fellow that bought that little CZ could not have been happier. I talked with him as he was preparing for a trip to Germany to hunt boar. Later, I bought another 30-06 because the Featherweights Winchester reintroduced in 2008 were so handsome. It shoots boringly well. I doubt I'll be without a 30-06, but it is boring. It defeats my argument that I need all these calibres.

 

[Murphdog]

Dr. Mike your advice was a gift to this hunter, you did well.

This is a subject near and dear to my heart. I have been blessed by being born, raised, and have lived almost all of my life in Montana. My family and friends have hunted elk in South Western Montana since my college days in the early 80's. Up until the wolves showed up it was an area where elk out numbered hunters 10 : 1 and there were lots of hunters. Unfortunately both the number of elk and the number of hunters are a fraction of what they used to be. My point was that when the area was at the heigth of glory there were lots of out of state hunters many of which had read way too much about how only cannons would bring down elk. These poor pilgrams would show up with a minimum of a 338 win. and only go up from there. Few if any could hit the broad side of a barn let alone the elk that they were pointing at (sometimes they got lucky and killed an elk near the one they were shooting at)when the closed both eyes and yanked the trigger. I wish I would have had the good sence to have bought up a bunch of plain jane 30-06 and traded them straight across for the Mark V's that they were scared to shoot. I am exaggerating only just a little.

I was most fortunate in my own life, to have had my best buddy's wife buy him a 338 win for their first Christmas. Everytime I would read too many hunting magazines and deside that I really need a 338 I would just go shoot his half a dozen times from the bench. A vaccination for magnumitis sort of speak. When my buddy bought a 300 win. and very quietly relagated the 338 to the back of gun closet I knew I was on to something sticking with the 30-06. Festus (my best friend and hunting buddy)developed his super kill them elk dead load that had a three shot group that fit nicely into a dime never check the velocity until well after he had killed a bunch of elk with said load. When he did it turned out that the 180 grain bullet from his 300 win was only about 25 fps faster then the 180 gain load I was shooting in the 30-06. At that point he never bothered to change.

Some points to ponder!!

All the velocity and energy in the world is worthless unless you hit what you are shooting at.
If you are getting your teeth kicked out everytime you touch the trigger you are not going to want to spend much time shooting that rifle.
It takes practice to be a good shot and a whole lot of practice to learn how to handle lots of recoil and be a good shot. Thering your rifle to the bench is not practicing but at least your rifle should be sited in and you will know the accuracy potensial.
Bigger is better only if you can shoot the big gun almost as well as you shoot the standard rifle.
Bullet placement is what puts meat in the freezer (assuming you are using good bullets).
That extra couple of shells found in the magazine of a non-magnum rifle can come in real handy; an empty rifle is at best a marginal club.

Regarding the 30 cal 220 grain Partition please note that it has a sectional density of .331, a 250 grain .338 bullet has a sectional density of .313. While I might question the 180 grain Pt's ability to completely take out both shoulders (the near side shoulder is toast) I have absolutely no doubt that the 30 cal 220 PT, started at 2500 or above, is going to take out both shoulders on the biggest baddest bear on the planet provided (and here is the catch)that you place the bullet so that it's path will hit both shoulders.

 

[Antelope_Sniper]

180gr Partition at 2800, or a 220gr at 2500, I'd take the 180 grainer. 150 to 180 grain bullets is where the 30.06 really shines.

 

[SJB358]

The problem with the 30-06 is that it is boring! Because it can do everything pretty well! :mrgreen:

Same here, I got a M721 30-06 when I was 13 or so. I had it for about 1 week and sold it down the road to get a proper hunting rifle, a M70 7mm Rem Mag. My father hunted everything with a Browning BAR 30-06 with Federal 180gr PT's. It was BORING to me. I still don't have a 30-06, but when I find the right one, I will have one. It really is the do it all caliber. I wouldn't fear hunting anything with 220gr PT's loaded to 2500FPS. My father never had any issues killing moose, elk and deer with the 30-06 and I attribute alot of his success to the 180gr PT's. You would be hard pressed to do much better. Unless you are talking about a 35 Whelen throwing 250's at nearly 2600! Scotty

 

[Murphdog]

180gr Partition at 2800, or a 220gr at 2500, I'd take the 180 grainer. 150 to 180 grain bullets is where the 30.06 really shines[/quote

The only time I would advicate the 220 grain bullets is for brownies or griz in the thick stuff. Penetration and the bullets ability to crush bones becomes critical. A flat trajectory is not of much use when your target is going to be less than 50 yards. Also within the working ranges of non monolithic bullets and all things equal a slower projectile will penetrate farther then a faster one. The process of a bullet mushrooming sheds energy very quickly. That is why at 50 yards you will recover a bullet from a given animal but at 300 yards the same bullet, animal, etc. will exit.