Annealing brass

truck driver · Oct 22, 2014

I had a couple of my 35 Whelen brass necks split while reloading so I thought I better give it a try. I watched Scotty's U tube post and gave it a whirl.
I got out the torch with map gas and a 1/2" socket and filled a small pan with about 2" of water. I spun and heated the necks in a low lighted room till they were glowing down to the shoulder and then dropped them in the water to cool. Here's a pic of the end results, these were the bad cases since I didn't want to ruin any good ones. So tell me what you think. Should I have stopped before they turned red to the shoulder?

Ridgerunner665 · Oct 22, 2014

You overcooked them if you kept the heat on them until they were glowing...everything else sounds right, but take the heat off as soon as you see them even "begin" to glow....I wouldn't use those brass pictured above...I bet you could pinch the mouths shut with your fingers (too soft)

Annealing isn't hard at all...just takes a bit of practice to nail down the technique...you did good, just don't cook them until they glow...stop the instant you start to see anything glow, and drop them in the water.

Or at least thats the way I do it...

truck driver · Oct 22, 2014

Thanks RR. Those where toast before I started. All the necks have cracks and they were a practice run. :mrgreen:

ElmerThud · Oct 23, 2014

I anneald some cases earlier this year for the first time and they seem to have worked just fine.
I had a look at a couple of youtube postings & thought what the hell - give it a go.

Using a 'lazy susan, I stood the cases one at a time in a dish of water, rotating and giving heat for 15 seconds each time then knocking over to quench...seems to have given results that have/are working just fine.

I have noticed a difference in POI using same load in both anneald & un-anneald cases, so now I'm even more picky about controlling my brass. Anyhow, annealing works and gives cases a whole new lease of life.
I'm sure it'll work just fine for you. ATB

truck driver · Oct 24, 2014

I've looked at the the youtube postings and saw the different methods I also thought I saw the neck being heated till it glowed before stopping the process. I glad I had some junk brass to experiment with first. :mrgreen:

jimbires · Oct 24, 2014

here is a good article on annealing . I know you're trying to do this with out a machine , but this explains what you are trying to accomplish . at the end of the article there is manual annealing info .
http://www.6mmbr.com/annealing.html

I have a ballistic edge machine . there is some good info to read there too .

http://www.annealingmachines.com/how-to-anneal.html

ScreaminEagle · Oct 25, 2014

I did a batch of 257 AI not too long ago. I had my best results when I shut the lights off, held the torch to the neck/shoulder junction until they started to turn the slightest of DARK red, then dropped in a pan of water. They turned out beautiful. Looked like new lapua brass!

SJB358 · Oct 25, 2014

ScreaminEagle":2cdn02it said:
I did a batch of 257 AI not too long ago. I had my best results when I shut the lights off, held the torch to the neck/shoulder junction until they started to turn the slightest of DARK red, then dropped in a pan of water. They turned out beautiful. Looked like new lapua brass!

Same here, I work in a dark room, so as soon as I start seeing it change, I drop it. I do not drop into water though. For me, I found it wasn't needed. I have used some brass so long now you all would call me a liar if I told you how many times it has been fired and suffered no ill results.

ScreaminEagle · Oct 25, 2014

Scotty, im gonna try it without water next time. I hate dealing with that part

SJB358 · Oct 25, 2014

ScreaminEagle":1odh17tz said:
Scotty, im gonna try it without water next time. I hate dealing with that part

Yeah, I read everything I could on annealing and after doing it without water I got the same results and less cleanup. It works the same.

Thebear_78 · Oct 25, 2014

Im thinking about either getting this system or maybe building somethibg similar, seems like a slick set up for little money
http://www.cartridgeanneal.com/site/mob ... e.php#2558

balew6254 · Oct 25, 2014

Check this thread out on 24 Hour Campfire regarding John Barsness method for annealing brass with a candle and wet towel. It works and is easy and inexpensive.
http://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbthread ... rnsness_re

Bruce

wvchevy3 · Oct 25, 2014

balew6254":1nnwpfmz said:
Check this thread out on 24 Hour Campfire regarding John Barsness method for annealing brass with a candle and wet towel. It works and is easy and inexpensive.
http://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbthread ... rnsness_re

Bruce

To me that is the best way. I have used this method for the past 10 years. Lee

truck driver · Oct 25, 2014

Thanks for all the links and I have visited each one and others I have found. Read so much my eyes crossed :lol:
I now realize that my first attempt was wrong and over heated the brass, just glad they were junk to begin with. :mrgreen: I have some more junk too experiment with so I'll try with them first before I try with the good stuff.

350JR · Oct 26, 2014

jimbires":3h5u6jz9 said:
here is a good article on annealing . I know you're trying to do this with out a machine , but this explains what you are trying to accomplish . at the end of the article there is manual annealing info .
http://www.6mmbr.com/annealing.html

I have a ballistic edge machine . there is some good info to read there too .

http://www.annealingmachines.com/how-to-anneal.html

On the water subject that is discussed above Im just highlighting part of the 6br page on that and I am in full agreement but others here are more experienced so only my 2 cents. The water is a PIA all the way around to use, and allegedly does nothing.

"Unlike steel, which will be made harder when it is cooled rapidly, brass is virtually unaffected when it is rapidly cooled. Annealing brass and suddenly quenching it in water will have no measurable effect on the brass. Cartridge cases are made of brass. When cartridge cases have been reloaded a number of times, the case necks become harder. Annealing will return the cartridge case necks to their factory original state."

jimbires · Oct 26, 2014

everything I've read says that using water does nothing . when using water the next issue would be getting the brass completely dry . . I set my machine on the basement cement floor and let the brass drop through onto a rag to cushion the fall and keep them from rolling .

I keep some junk brass for each cartridge . I use 750* temp a lac on this junk brass to get set up on .a lot of my brass does not have the lapua burn look . I'd say annealing by color , or looks , could be over annealing at times .

greenheadcaller · Oct 29, 2014

My 2 cents .

#1 piece of advise for annealing rifle brass ....Use tempilaq 750 inside neck and 400 or 450 on base.

Reason: As we all know, consistency matters when reloading for accuracy, this includes brass prep....and when annealing. Inconsistently heated/annealed brass due to inconsistent flame dwell times or other reasons can cause inconsistent neck tension amongst same-same batched brass all else being equal ...... and this can (read - not will) cause groups to open up rather than being unchanged or better after annealing.

Tempilaq will help you make sure you get them annealed, get them consistently annealed, and not over annealed...and consistency matters.

Obviously over annealed brass is unsafe ... and will also cause neck tension to be all over the place all else being equal (inconsistently spongy brass - not consistently springy brass)....and its a nearly impossible condition to fix once toasted. ymmv

imo....skip the water...its does nothing to help annealing BRASS if you are using tempilaq... only makes it so you can pick them up sooner and then you have to dry the brass

imo...forget about after annealed color or "does this look right" and trust the tempilaq (I anneal a lot of brass...finished appearance/color of perfectly annealed brass is inconsistent and varies by how the brass has been cleaned prior to annealing and what was used to clean it amongst other things (like fuel source, brass alloy mix, etc etc )). use tempilaq

Trust the tempilaq......if brass glows ... at all .... it's hotter than it should or needs to be to get the job done well (750 tempilaq will typically melt before any glow ... draw your own conclusions)

here is a link on our Nosler reloading site that mentions some other tips and the Anneal Rite video...worth watching.... viewtopic.php?f=4&t=28486

Use tempilaq if you want to anneal brass and avoid issues (such as risking actually making your brass worse instead of better).

one mans opinion ...just trying to help folks potentially see some benefits not potentially ruin the brass we all seem to babysit :grin: hope this helps

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EXLPGcSNyUs

truck driver · Nov 10, 2014

Just finished watching another Utube on annealing brass and counted the time it took for the 750 templaq to turn which was about 3 seconds so I decided to give it another go since I lost another 4 pieces of brass today do to splitting. I sacrificed them first and let them in the flame for about 6 seconds using Mapp Gas and I believe the mapp gas was too hot since I couldn't keep the brass necks from getting a little red. Not as bad as my first attempt but still too long since I could bend the case mouth with my finger nail. I switched out the bottle for propane and was able to get what I thought was the desired temp with out the necks turning red. The room wasn't completely dark but dark enough to see a change in color with the brass.
I first polished the case necks and shoulder area with extra fine steel wool so it was nice and brite, turned on the torch placed a piece of brass in the sock and started the drill turning placing the neck in the flame I counted 1001 1002 1003 and dropped the piece of brass on a folded towel. here are two pics of the finished product all four pieces are the same brass in both pics just different lighting to see the effects. The case in the top pic on the left didn't get the light the others did but you can still see that it turned colors just below the shoulder. I could not bend the case mouth with my thumb nail on these four.
So what are your thoughts on my latest try at annealing?

jimbires · Nov 11, 2014

if you melted 750* temp a lac , and didn't get the necks glowing red , I'd say you did it .

I use propane , it only takes seconds so I'm not going to try and speed it up . when I anneal I tumble my brass first . with shiny , clean brass I can watch a heat line , or a slight shine change walk down the brass case .

truck driver · Nov 16, 2014

I loaded some of my freshly annealed brass last night and while resizing them I couldn't help but notice that they seemed to be harder to resize and the expander ball seemed to be tighter in the case necks on extraction from the die. The necks also seemed to be tighter when seating the bullets. Is this normal for freshly annealed brass? :?

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