What do you see?
- Thread starter Slimfinn
- Start date
DrMike
Ballistician
- Nov 8, 2006
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He appears to have been in good shape when you took him, Jim. He didn't get that big by accident. He had obviously been feeding well, and that meant a depletion of fawns and poults.
highoctane
Handloader
- Apr 20, 2018
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I caught this black / kinda melanistic yote a couple years ago.
salmonchaser
Ammo Smith
- Dec 13, 2013
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Got some domestic dog in him?
DrMike
Ballistician
- Nov 8, 2006
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Wouldn't want to meet that gimlet-eyed beast in the dark! Neat mount. 
- Nov 4, 2004
- 27,253
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Jim
50 lbs is a big dog!
Sako
That’s a pretty cool mount.
Congrats to both of you.
JD338
50 lbs is a big dog!
Sako
That’s a pretty cool mount.
Congrats to both of you.
JD338
yes , I don't think he missed too many midnight snacks . he was big and healthy . his demeanor was different than most of the other coyotes I've caught . most will sit or lay , not him .
my dog Sally ,goes trapping with me . I closed her in the side x side , while I went over to him . Sally beat me to him . I thought I didn't get the door closed , so I put her back in the SxS and was sure the door latched . she beat me to him again . she was jumping out the partially open door window , getting between me and him . there was something different with this one . she's never acted like this before him , or since him .
I'm not sure if you're asking me ? I'll try to answer though .
I remember from years back , they would have a map showing how the coyote moved from the Midwest states , up into Canada , and come back down into America . I remember it looking similar to a weather jet stream map . it's been long enough that I'm really foggy on the details . I'm sure more states have big coyotes than just PA , if this is true . supposedly the PA coyotes are interbred with wolves , maybe the grey wolves , not sure about domestic dogs . this is how our coyotes get their size . I'll say it again , I'm really foggy on the details . I should of dug around for info before I responded to you .
I'm curious about this now , I'll have to do some digging around and see if this is still what they are saying , and what they have bred with to get their size .
ours do act different than the westerns . you seldom , if ever , see a coyote here . a very secretive animal . when I hunted big game in western states , and N.Carolina , coyotes were out and about , really nothing special to see a few daily .
most guys get a coyote like sako2 got his . out hunting something and ran into a coyote . the "only" one I've shot , I called it in the first day of spring gobbler season . he was puttin the sneak on a turkey , so he thought .
salmonchaser
Ammo Smith
- Dec 13, 2013
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I’ve only seen coyotes out west, in my mind never a question due to coloration, conformation that it was a song dog. I’ve heard stories of of domestic dogs breeding with coyotes but don’t recall ever seeing such. I was curious of your thoughts as he was so dark. I’ve an uncle who ranched in Arizona who was convinced his golden retriever had a couple of girls on the side so to speak, he had pictures that weren’t great but seemed to support the theory domestic dogs and coyotes could get it done.
Interesting the theory of coyotes and wolves interbreeding and the coyotes presence in the eastern states. Lewis and Clark identified the coyote on their trip west. It was unknown to them before hand. Now it seems like they are everywhere. I distinctly recall the first coyote I saw in Alaska. It was not back in the late 50s it was in fact the early 2000. I was flying into the King Salmon Airport in Phils super cub after a busman’s holiday fishing for char. In any event we saw a coyote running down the runway and chased him as we were landing. Slow but sure we started seeing a few more, not like wolves fo course but they were starting to show. Amazing animals.
We have friends who ranch in south central Oregon, Lake County area. Used to hunt coyotes there. Never seemed to make a dent in the population. They even had a govt trapper/hunter kill them from a super cub and a helicopter. Still song dogs there. In her work with the Forest Service Catherine came across some studies showing that the more you hunt them the larger their litters will be. Moderate pressure is the most effective tool. I just tried to turn a 100 page research paper into two sentences.
In any event, cross breeding or not, my experience is anyone who can routinely hunt or trap coyotes is well dialed in. Typically when I shoot them they have found me.
Interesting the theory of coyotes and wolves interbreeding and the coyotes presence in the eastern states. Lewis and Clark identified the coyote on their trip west. It was unknown to them before hand. Now it seems like they are everywhere. I distinctly recall the first coyote I saw in Alaska. It was not back in the late 50s it was in fact the early 2000. I was flying into the King Salmon Airport in Phils super cub after a busman’s holiday fishing for char. In any event we saw a coyote running down the runway and chased him as we were landing. Slow but sure we started seeing a few more, not like wolves fo course but they were starting to show. Amazing animals.
We have friends who ranch in south central Oregon, Lake County area. Used to hunt coyotes there. Never seemed to make a dent in the population. They even had a govt trapper/hunter kill them from a super cub and a helicopter. Still song dogs there. In her work with the Forest Service Catherine came across some studies showing that the more you hunt them the larger their litters will be. Moderate pressure is the most effective tool. I just tried to turn a 100 page research paper into two sentences.
In any event, cross breeding or not, my experience is anyone who can routinely hunt or trap coyotes is well dialed in. Typically when I shoot them they have found me.
highoctane
Handloader
- Apr 20, 2018
- 310
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Salmon, I do believe yotes will cross with dogs but I do not believe it's as prevalent as some think. As far as the shooting and trapping of yotes. Outside of widespread poisoning, which is illegal there is no way to eliminate coyotes. They are here to stay. In my neck of the woods coyotes are not native. They were brought in by the hound hunters that had running pens. 50-60 years of yotes getting loose takes a toll eventually. Look at what's going on in the Everglades with the pythons.
I know that there are many environmental factors that we have no control over when it comes to fawn recruitment but taking just a few predators will pay dividends.
My trapping of coyotes is for CONTROL. I do not trap to sell, trade or barter any coyote. I start depredation trapping around the time that turkey hens and doe deer start to have their poults and fawn. Fawns are already on the ground where I live. I simply try to reduce the numbers to a level to give the fawns a little bit of time to get their "legs under them".
Over the past few years I have seen a remarkable increase in "my" fawn and turkey poult recruitment when I can give them several weeks of not having a set of teeth around their necks. They don't make it long when that happens. lol
Just because I catch yotes doesn't mean that is the reason this doe had three fawns but it helps with her getting them to the yearling stage.
I know that there are many environmental factors that we have no control over when it comes to fawn recruitment but taking just a few predators will pay dividends.
My trapping of coyotes is for CONTROL. I do not trap to sell, trade or barter any coyote. I start depredation trapping around the time that turkey hens and doe deer start to have their poults and fawn. Fawns are already on the ground where I live. I simply try to reduce the numbers to a level to give the fawns a little bit of time to get their "legs under them".
Over the past few years I have seen a remarkable increase in "my" fawn and turkey poult recruitment when I can give them several weeks of not having a set of teeth around their necks. They don't make it long when that happens. lol
Just because I catch yotes doesn't mean that is the reason this doe had three fawns but it helps with her getting them to the yearling stage.
the reading I've done says , YES , coyotes can / do breed with domestic dogs . and YES , the eastern coyote can/ do breed with grey wolves . YES , the litters do increase , according to population . you will never hunt , or trap them out of existence . I saved a couple links with good info , if you guys are interested in reading up a little . I've seen in my reading the average male coyote in PA weighs 45 - 55 , and others have said 50 - 60 , or maybe it was 55-65 . I forget already , but definitely bigger than the coyote in most states .
here's what Copilot gave me for an answer , and it's short ,and to the point . worth the 30 seconds to read .
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Yes — Pennsylvania’s eastern coyotes are often mixed with gray wolves, and in fact, they are considered a hybrid species in the region.
Eastern coyotes (Canis latrans) are found throughout Pennsylvania and are the largest coyotes in the state, with males weighing 45–55 pounds and females 35–40 pounds biologyinsights.com. Their larger size and certain physical traits — such as grayish fur and more wolf-like howls — are linked to historical interbreeding between coyotes and gray wolves PA.GOV+1.
Genetic studies show that eastern coyotes are intermediate in size and shape between gray wolves and western coyotes, and DNA analysis confirms that wolf–coyote hybridization has occurred in the Great Lakes and northeastern regions PA.GOV+1. In Pennsylvania, this hybridization likely began when western coyotes expanded eastward into former gray wolf ranges, mixing with remnant wolf populations Wikipedia.
The resulting eastern coyote can be a mix of:
In short, yes — PA coyotes are often mixed with gray wolves, and the eastern coyote is a well-documented hybrid species in the state.
pennsylvaniainfo.blog
here's what Copilot gave me for an answer , and it's short ,and to the point . worth the 30 seconds to read .
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Dislike
Yes — Pennsylvania’s eastern coyotes are often mixed with gray wolves, and in fact, they are considered a hybrid species in the region.
Eastern coyotes (Canis latrans) are found throughout Pennsylvania and are the largest coyotes in the state, with males weighing 45–55 pounds and females 35–40 pounds biologyinsights.com. Their larger size and certain physical traits — such as grayish fur and more wolf-like howls — are linked to historical interbreeding between coyotes and gray wolves PA.GOV+1.
Genetic studies show that eastern coyotes are intermediate in size and shape between gray wolves and western coyotes, and DNA analysis confirms that wolf–coyote hybridization has occurred in the Great Lakes and northeastern regions PA.GOV+1. In Pennsylvania, this hybridization likely began when western coyotes expanded eastward into former gray wolf ranges, mixing with remnant wolf populations Wikipedia.
The resulting eastern coyote can be a mix of:
- Western coyote (about 62% in northeastern coyotes)
- Western wolf (14%)
- Eastern wolf (13%)
- Domestic dog (11%) Wikipedia
In short, yes — PA coyotes are often mixed with gray wolves, and the eastern coyote is a well-documented hybrid species in the state.
PA Coyotes with Wolf DNA: The Shocking Hybrid Truth! - Pennsylvaniainfo.blog
The ongoing discussion surrounding Pennsylvania's wildlife increasingly involves canid hybridization. The Pennsylvania Game Commission, the state's primary conservation agency, meticulously monitors wildlife populations, including pennsylvania coyotes with wolf dna. Recent genetic studies...
I'm surprised you guys can trap through the fawning season . PA's trapping season starts the end of OCT .
salmonchaser
Ammo Smith
- Dec 13, 2013
- 6,044
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If Catherine is not with me I shoot on sight. I just don’t seem to sight them that much anymore when I have a rifle. I may not shoot them when I’m elk or deer hunting as I”m trying to be sneaky. It does seem to me controlling them rather than attempting to eliminate them works best.
Guy Miner
Master Loader
- Apr 6, 2006
- 18,283
- 8,597
Wyoming coyote at about 420 yards. 115 grain Nosler Ballistic Tip at 3150 fps from the 25-06 while I was hunting mule deer and pronghorn. Got those as well.
