165 or 180 Ballistic Tip

[joelkdouglas]

Gents,

First, I know both the 165 and 180 Ballistic Tip will kill whitetails cleanly. Hell, even the 125 grain BT will do the job.

But I really only play with 165 or 180 grain bullets. I've heard the 180 grain BT is a tougher bullet, and will punch a bigger hole. But that may not be the best for whitetail--what I want is a dead deer, faster.

Any experience out there to compare the two with whitetails?

v/r
Joel

 

[DrMike]

I doubt that anyone can time the difference when the bullet is placed where it should be.

 

[Guy Miner]

Used the 165 gr Ballistic Tip from my .308 Win this year. Muzzle velocity was about 2730 fps.

I shot a small whitetail buck at about 75 yards from my blind, standing quartering towards me. At the shot he dropped dead instantly. A bit high on the shoulder, a little over halfway up his body I'd say. Exit wound was surprisingly big, about 1.5" or 2 inches high and about 4" long, through the ribs. Lots of blood. Lungs were pretty well shredded, soupy.

Here's a link to a discussion of the 180 gr BTip's performance on elk:

viewtopic.php?f=50&t=17297

Personally I think of the 180's as more of an elk & bear bullet, and the 165's as perfect for deer, but sometimes we over-think these things.

 

[joelkdouglas]

I agree we, or at least I, overthink things. I had heard Nosler made the 180 grain .308 bullets more tough than the other .308 bullets, and wondered if I should use the 165s instead.

And I could use the Combined Technology bullets, but I don't know the coating is worth the extra $4 or $5 per box.

But Dr Mike is correct--most likely the deer won't know the difference.

 

[SJB358]

Seems like the 165's or 168's are just about perfect for deer. I do think the 180gr BT is a little tougher than average. It has a very thick base and seems to hold up well. I think it would come down to whichever one shot best outta the rifle or heck, whichever one you felt like using that day! Scotty

 

[chet]

I use several different 30 calibers for hunting, and I generally follow one simple rule for ballistic tips. "keep them under 3000fps"

basically that means use a 180 in a 300 mag (even though I can get 3100, I load them down a little or just go to the AccuBond)

165 or 180 in the 30-06

125 165 or 180 in the 308 (some 308's dont care for the long 180)

Typically I go as heavy as I can without creating too much recoil for the particular shooter.

I guide first time hunters on doe hunts every year, and they really like my Kimber 84m 308 w/ 125 BT's @ 2650. light rifle, very light recoil, and kills deer like lightning!!!

 

[SJB358]

Chet, good to hear from you buddy! How did you make out on the moose hunt! Haven't heard from you in a bit...

Back to 165 or 180BT's regularly scheduled program! Scotty

 

[JD338]

Both are excellent bullets but it would depend on haw fast you are driving them.
What cartridge are you using?

JD338

 

[Oldtrader3]

I have shot a couple of management type mule deer with the 165 CT Silvertip in a .30-06 Model 70 and it worked fine. Expansion was a little dramatic but it certainly did the job and quickly!

 

[joelkdouglas]

Both are excellent bullets but it would depend on haw fast you are driving them.
What cartridge are you using?

JD338

JD338,

A choice between 2 .30-06s, so really no problem with velocity. I think the most I can push the 165 grain is about 2800, maybe 2850 fps realistically with IMR4350. The 180 about 2750, maybe a little higher, or so with Ramshot Hunter. I think both bullets would perform just fine.

And both loads are good sub MOA loads, so no real concern there.

v/r
Joel

 

[6mm Remington]

Joel you didn't say how far your longer shots might be, and if you have a longer shot that might present itself to you, the 165 BT will provide just a touch flatter trajectory. I think between the two weights I would go with the 165, especially if it shot better than the 180. You got the powder down right with the IMR4350 for sure. Lots of folks here as you know get great accuracy with it and the 165 gr bullet using between 57.0 - 58.0 grs. It just seems to be a magic sweet spot for that weight bullet in the 30-06.

Whichever weight you choose between those two should work very well for you. My final decision I think would be to pick the one that shoots the best in my rifle. Should you decide you need or want a slightly tougher bullet to use, you might get lucky and be able to load the 165 or 180 gr. Accbond leaving the seating alone as it's set, and using the same load for the ballistic tip. If you are really lucky, the POI of the two might be close enough that you would not even have to worry about sight in changes.

Have you made your decision yet?

 

[JD338]

Joel,

The 165 gr is just about perfect in the 30-06 for deer. If you are up close or shoot shoulders, I would opt for the 180 gr BT.

JD338

 

[joelkdouglas]

Have you made your decision yet?

Do I have to decide? Actually, this next year I want to spend more time at the range, and get a predictable, dependable elk load (180 AccuBond), and a predictable, dependable deer load (165 or 180 BT). If I shot 180 for both, I could be used to the same trajectory, etc.

This year I'm also switching to shooting 5-shot groups instead of 3, and I'll start using a chrono (I have it, but haven't used it yet). I'll likely find myself a 6x fixed scope that has the same picture every time. In short, I want my rifle shooting to become boringly predictable.

 

[Oldtrader3]

Joel, you might consider shooting (4) shot groups. The reason is statistical. There is a much lower probability of squeeezing that 4th shot into the same group and not having the pressure of having to shoot another shot after the forth. Statistically, there is not much difference between a (4) and a (5) shot group. Much less difference than (3) and (5) shot group sizes. All of the math guys that I have read lately on ballisitics encorage shooters to shoot (4) and not (5) shot groups.

 

[JD338]

Joel,

3 shots test the load and 5 shots test the shooter. :wink:

JD338

 

[Elkman]

I have been using Nosler "Partitions" for almost 50 years now for a very good reason. They work at all ranges the first time every time. I have killed both deer and elk with the 180, however either will work. If elk is your primary (as me) I would use the 180, if it is deer the 165. A sightin of 3 to 3.5 inches high at 100 gives you very good ballistics out to 300 plus a little with either bullet. I use only one weight of bullet for my big game hunting.

 

[Oldtrader3]

Plus 1 on what Bill said. I am another old coot who has hunted elk since 1963 and have used Partition bullets since 1964 when I lost an elk to a 7mm Mag, 175 gr, Power Point that exploded on an elk shoulder. I switched to Partitions and the .338 WM (or .300 mag) and have not had an issue since. I also shoot one load per caliber, which on my rifle calibers over 7mm includes a high sectional density Partition bullet with one load per caliber.

 

[Antelope_Sniper]

Any BT in the 150-180gr range will kill deer just fine.

If you plan to shoot elk with the same rifle load the 180gr BT's.