180 vs. 190 Grain bullets

[Mud]

If i'm getting 3150 fps with 180 grain AccuBond out of my 300 Weatherby. What can I except my fps to be if I use 190 Berger VLD hunting bullets.

Is there a formula somewhere or some rule to follow?

Also, does anyone have recommend starting loads for the 190 grain VLD Berger bullets? I'm planning on using IMR 7828.

Thanks,

Larry

 

[SJB358]

I imagine due to the less bearing surface of the 190 VLD, you would likely be able to match or at least get close to the 180 speeds.. Just a guess, but you shouldn't be far off.

 

[.300winmag]

You can use energy conservation laws and get a rough estimate, it's what I use.

V2 = V1*(W1/W2)^(.5)

Where V1 is the velocity of the bullet you know the velocity of.
W1 is the weight of the bullet you know the velocity of.
V2 is the estimated velocity of the bullet you are looking at.
W2 is the weight of the bullet you are looking at.

Keep in mind this is a rough estimate, it will not work well for lead core/monolithic combinations and the error will be higher if the bearing surfaces are significantly different. It is very useful however if you're trying to do an apples to apples comparison between bullets to try and maximize performance.

With your numbers I get 3,065 fps for the 190 Berger, I'd suspect you'd get a little more umph than that though seeings how the bearing surface on the Berger is a bit shorter than the Nosler. Keep in mind the higher BC will go a lot farther in improving trajectories than velocity advantage of the 180. Hope this may help some!

 

[Guy Miner]

For the .300 Weatherby, the Berger manual shows:

190 gr VLD, IMR 7828 SSC

minimum: 72.5 gr for 2826 fps

maximum: 78.2 gr for 3039 fps

 

[JD338]

The best way would be to clock them with a chronograph.
I would guess 100 fps less than the 180's.

JD338

 

[onesonek]

Normally I have found in .30 calibers of different chamberings, 10 grs. can be very little to 100 fps or so range depending on bullet, case capacity, and the rifle like's itself. I suspect less in this capacity, as Scotty has a valid point on design. Without chronograghing the loads, no way to be sure. Someone running a QL for you, likely be as close as any method, other than a chronogragh.
But for the sake of conversation and or knowledge to the new shooter. As I also suspect you want to run projections on a ballistic program? I really shouldn't speculate such, but even with a known chrono velocity and more so a QL projection, one needs to shoot for confirmation if running projections on a ballistic program of some sort. Without shooting load confirmations at extended ranges, one really don't know what's going on much beyond a point blank range scope setting.

 

[FOTIS]

3050-3100 is a good estimate

 

[Mud]

Thanks for the feed back.

I had some spare time this past weekend to do some shooting. But I'm still not sure which bullet I should work up. The Nosler 180 grain AccuBond looks good and so does the 190 grain Berger VLD hunting bullet. At the moment I'm leaning towards the 190 Berger because of the higher BC.

 

[SJB358]

They both look pretty good. I am sure they can both be tweaked to be really accurate as well. I guess it just depends on what ranges and what you plan on hunting. That would sway me one way or the other.

 

[Elkman]

I have see many forum discussions regarding a wide variability on the performance of the Berger Bullets. I have a couple hundred and have found them to be very accurate, but I use Noslers for hunting, "big game".

 

[Oldtrader3]

I have personal experience with 180 grain Partitions. Bergers have a reputation for being erratic in expansion performance. I would have to be convinced that they are as reliably expanding a hunting bullet as the Partitions are. If I wanted more bullet in a .300 Weatherby, I would step up to the 200 Partition. Just my $02.

 

[Alaska]

I also shoot a 300 WBY

my best load is

H4831 @ 80.0
200 gr Speer SP

Sure shoots good
3000 FPS from 26" barrel

 

[FOTIS]

Cartridge : .300 Weath. Mag.
Bullet : .308, 190, Berger VLD
Useable Case Capaci: 87.409 grain H2O = 5.675 cm³
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 3.560 inch = 90.42 mm
Barrel Length : 26.0 inch = 660.4 mm

Predicted Data for Indicated Charges of the Following Powders.
Matching Maximum Pressure: 63840 psi, or 440 MPa
or a maximum loading ratio or filling of 110 %
These calculations refer to your specified settings in QuickLOAD 'Cartridge Dimensions' window.
C A U T I O N : any load listed can result in a powder charge that falls below minimum suggested
loads or exceeds maximum suggested loads as presented in current handloading manuals. Understand
that all of the listed powders can be unsuitable for the given combination of cartridge, bullet
and gun. Actual load order can vary, depending upon lot-to-lot powder and component variations.
USE ONLY FOR COMPARISON !

171 loads produced a Loading Ratio below user-defined minimum of 90%. These powders have been skipped.
Powder type Filling/Loading Ratio Charge Charge Vel. Prop.Burnt P max P muzz B_Time
% Grains Gramm fps % psi psi ms
--------------------------------- -----------------------------------------------------------------
Vihtavuori N570 107.8 91.5 5.93 3224 97.9 63840 14622 1.212 ! Near Maximum !
Alliant Reloder 33 107.3 95.0 6.16 3209 98.5 63840 14368 1.214 ! Near Maximum !
ADI AR 2218 110.0 94.4 6.12 3181 97.6 60666 14761 1.220 ! Near Maximum !
Norma MRP 2 106.8 86.1 5.58 3153 99.9 63840 13077 1.227 ! Near Maximum !
Ramshot Magnum 101.2 87.3 5.66 3153 100.0 63840 12851 1.212 ! Near Maximum !
PB Clermont PCL 517 101.5 87.3 5.66 3152 100.0 63840 12840 1.212 ! Near Maximum !
SNPE Vectan SP 12 101.4 87.2 5.65 3151 100.0 63840 12810 1.212 ! Near Maximum !
Vihtavuori N560 98.7 81.3 5.27 3150 99.6 63840 13136 1.217 ! Near Maximum !
Accurate MAGPRO 99.0 84.8 5.50 3145 99.0 63840 13294 1.224 ! Near Maximum !
Norma MRP 96.9 81.5 5.28 3142 100.0 63840 12593 1.225 ! Near Maximum !
Hodgdon Retumbo 110.0 89.1 5.77 3140 100.0 60550 12727 1.235 ! Near Maximum !
IMR 7828 SSC 97.6 80.8 5.24 3140 99.8 63840 12694 1.207 ! Near Maximum !
IMR 7828 103.2 80.8 5.24 3140 99.8 63840 12694 1.207 ! Near Maximum !
Alliant Reloder-25 104.6 83.9 5.43 3140 100.0 63840 12114 1.216 ! Near Maximum !
ADI AR 2213 98.8 80.4 5.21 3128 99.8 63840 12614 1.204 ! Near Maximum !
ADI AP 2214 102.6 85.8 5.56 3128 99.9 63840 12418 1.202 ! Near Maximum !
Hodgdon H1000 107.9 86.0 5.57 3125 99.9 63840 12383 1.202 ! Near Maximum !
Raufoss RA15 99.0 80.7 5.23 3120 100.0 63840 12511 1.223 ! Near Maximum !
Bofors RP5/NP ~approximation 99.0 80.7 5.23 3120 100.0 63840 12511 1.223 ! Near Maximum !
Alliant Reloder-22 99.0 80.7 5.23 3120 100.0 63840 12511 1.223 ! Near Maximum !
Winchester WXR 101.7 81.1 5.25 3120 100.0 63840 12538 1.224 ! Near Maximum !
Vihtavuori 24N41 110.0 94.4 6.12 3103 92.7 63796 13267 1.208 ! Near Maximum !
Bofors RP5 NT ~approximation 102.5 84.2 5.45 3100 98.8 63840 12589 1.206 ! Near Maximum !
Rottweil R905 100.4 80.3 5.20 3094 99.6 63840 12348 1.222 ! Near Maximum !
ADI AR 2209 95.7 76.7 4.97 3082 100.0 63840 11912 1.211 ! Near Maximum !
Alliant Reloder-19 96.2 77.5 5.02 3080 100.0 63840 11969 1.218 ! Near Maximum !
Bofors RP14 ~approximation 96.9 78.1 5.06 3073 100.0 63840 11888 1.219 ! Near Maximum !
Hodgdon H4831 SC 97.5 79.4 5.15 3063 99.5 63840 11957 1.215 ! Near Maximum !
Hodgdon H4831 101.5 79.4 5.15 3063 99.5 63840 11957 1.215 ! Near Maximum !
Ramshot Hunter 91.8 76.4 4.95 3062 100.0 63840 11458 1.226 ! Near Maximum !
Bofors RP4 ~approximation 94.4 76.1 4.93 3058 100.0 63840 11697 1.218 ! Near Maximum !
Norma 204 91.4 76.1 4.93 3058 100.0 63840 11697 1.218 ! Near Maximum !
Raufoss RA4 94.4 76.1 4.93 3058 100.0 63840 11697 1.218 ! Near Maximum !
Hodgdon H870 110.0 91.5 5.93 3058 97.8 54776 13725 1.303
Alliant Reloder-50 110.0 95.9 6.21 3043 95.7 53707 14237 1.337
Somchem S385 96.4 78.5 5.09 3038 100.0 63840 11362 1.239 ! Near Maximum !
Norma URP 91.4 72.8 4.72 3034 100.0 63840 10978 1.233 ! Near Maximum !
Rottweil R904 95.4 75.8 4.91 3034 99.7 63840 11495 1.218 ! Near Maximum !
Bofors RP19 ~approximation 91.4 72.9 4.72 3034 100.0 63840 10976 1.233 ! Near Maximum !
Winchester Supreme 780 95.0 80.7 5.23 3033 100.0 63840 11396 1.225 ! Near Maximum !
Vihtavuori N170 110.0 87.7 5.68 3030 96.2 62228 12408 1.250 ! Near Maximum !
Bofors RP4 NT ~approximation 92.1 75.4 4.88 3028 100.0 63840 11166 1.231 ! Near Maximum !
Accurate 4350 94.6 72.9 4.72 3028 100.0 63840 10919 1.251 ! Near Maximum !
Lovex D100 107.5 93.2 6.04 3027 93.3 63840 12253 1.225 ! Near Maximum !
Somchem S365 92.9 74.5 4.83 3026 100.0 63840 10637 1.243 ! Near Maximum !
Vihtavuori N165 101.5 80.9 5.24 3024 100.0 63840 11128 1.230 ! Near Maximum !
Vihtavuori N160 101.8 78.6 5.09 3016 99.7 63840 11288 1.222 ! Near Maximum !
Hodgdon H4350 94.1 74.2 4.81 3016 100.0 63840 10998 1.221 ! Near Maximum !
Accurate 3100 104.9 79.9 5.18 3016 100.0 63840 10974 1.256 ! Near Maximum !
Lovex S071 104.9 79.9 5.18 3016 100.0 63840 10974 1.256 ! Near Maximum !
IMR 4350 92.4 74.0 4.80 3015 100.0 63840 10971 1.221 ! Near Maximum !
IMR 4831 95.9 74.0 4.79 3015 100.0 63840 10737 1.242 ! Near Maximum !
Lovex S070 91.5 72.9 4.72 3012 100.0 63840 10967 1.237 ! Near Maximum !
Somchem S361 94.4 81.0 5.25 3004 99.4 63840 11320 1.230 ! Near Maximum !
Lovex S065 90.6 71.4 4.63 2985 100.0 63840 10554 1.236 ! Near Maximum !
Hodgdon Hybrid 100V 93.8 73.1 4.74 2984 100.0 63840 10139 1.236 ! Near Maximum !
Bofors 12,7mmRA NC1214 Lot20115087 110.0 93.7 6.07 2965 88.0 54818 13410 1.346
Vihtavuori N150 92.0 69.9 4.53 2921 100.0 63840 9622 1.244 ! Near Maximum !
Hodgdon US 869 110.0 94.4 6.12 2904 89.3 51992 12552 1.337
Hodgdon 50BMG 110.0 90.0 5.83 2899 85.1 51894 12612 1.336
SNPE Vectan SP 13 110.0 90.6 5.87 2842 93.2 47798 12221 1.397
Vihtavuori 20N29 110.0 95.4 6.18 2815 90.0 45787 12436 1.421
PB Clermont PCL 513/520/9520 110.0 90.6 5.87 2777 90.6 44710 11997 1.439

 

[Guy Miner]

Mud - if you like the Bergers, treat yourself to the Berger manual I got the info from earlier. It's really pretty good, and in addition to their load data, it tells the very interesting story of Walt Berger, extraordinary rifleman.

I have no reservation about them as general purpose hunting bullets with excellent accuracy & downrange potential, particularly for deer sized game. Also know several guys who have been using them for 10 years on elk, with excellent results. From my experience, they perform exactly as advertised and quick kills are the norm.

Regards, Guy

 

[AzDak42]

I've heard better reports on the AB on big game - but honestly, I'd shoot whichever one your rifle likes best.