1873 Win 44-40

[FOTIS]

So I bought a Japanese made modern 44-40 1873 winchester. Very nice gun and very very accurate.

I was wondering about loading these bullets (one of them anyway) for camp carbine duty. Worst case scenario for defense against a bear.

According to QL I can stay well under 13000 psi (15.9 psi is listed as max) and push the 220 at 1200 fps and the 160 gr at 1500 fps---if needed.


https://www.midwayusa.com/product/75503 ... -box-of-50



https://www.midwayusa.com/product/86939 ... -box-of-50

I am thinking penetration would not be an issue (lack of I should say). What say you?

 

[truck driver]

For me bigger would be better.

 

[FOTIS]

I am also gravitating towards the 220 gr at 1100-1200 fps.
Had to use the 220 Siera FMJ for a simulation.

Cartridge          : .44-40 Win. CF
Bullet             : .429, 220, Sierra FPJ FN 8605
Useable Case Capaci: 24.788 grain H2O = 1.609 cm³
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 1.590 inch = 40.39 mm
Barrel Length      : 20.0 inch = 508.0 mm

Predicted Data for Indicated Charges of the Following Powders.
Matching Maximum Pressure: 12960 psi, or 89 MPa
or a maximum loading ratio or filling of 105 %
These calculations refer to your specified settings in QuickLOAD 'Cartridge Dimensions' window.
C A U T I O N : any load listed can result in a powder charge that falls below minimum suggested
loads or exceeds maximum suggested loads as presented in current handloading manuals. Understand
that all of the listed powders can be unsuitable for the given combination of cartridge, bullet
and gun. Actual load order can vary, depending upon lot-to-lot powder and component variations.
USE ONLY FOR COMPARISON !

98 loads produced a Loading Ratio below user-defined minimum of 80%. These powders have been skipped.
Powder type          Filling/Loading Ratio  Charge    Charge   Vel. Prop.Burnt P max  P muzz  B_Time
                                      %     Grains    Gramm   fps     %       psi     psi    ms
---------------------------------  -----------------------------------------------------------------
Vihtavuori N110                     81.0     15.7     1.02    1319    78.2    12960    1379   1.841
Norma 200                          103.6     23.2     1.50    1289    55.7    12960    1438   1.880
Lovex S053                          85.1     17.4     1.13    1277    67.8    12960    1285   1.873
Vihtavuori N125                     88.5     18.8     1.22    1268    63.4    12960    1288   1.879
ADI AR 2207                         93.2     19.9     1.29    1263    59.0    12960    1309   1.907
Alliant Reloder-7                   93.0     20.6     1.33    1258    56.9    12960    1278   1.908
Vihtavuori N120                     94.3     19.7     1.28    1251    60.9    12960    1248   1.920
ReloadSwiss RS 36                   84.3     18.7     1.21    1248    59.4    12960    1219   1.895
Alliant Reloder-10x                101.4     21.9     1.42    1238    51.7    12960    1265   1.923
Hodgdon H4227                       82.5     17.3     1.12    1238    61.1    12960    1166   1.901
IMR 4227                            80.4     16.8     1.09    1227    61.0    12960    1129   1.911
IMR 4198                            91.0     18.7     1.21    1225    54.4    12960    1081   1.918
Kazan Sunar 308W                    95.9     21.4     1.39    1219    53.3    12960    1176   1.941
Vihtavuori N130                    100.7     21.5     1.39    1216    52.7    12960    1169   1.944
Nitrochemie A/S 0300                92.6     21.7     1.41    1215    47.6    12960    1142   1.945
Accurate 1680                       81.3     19.4     1.26    1211    52.6    12960    1123   1.949
SF033 fl, russ. 5,45x39            100.6     23.5     1.52    1211    48.6    12960    1202   1.950
Accurate 2015                      105.0     22.9     1.49    1192    48.3    12381    1182   1.982
SNPE Vectan SP 10                   94.7     23.1     1.50    1190    43.8    12960    1088   1.966
PB Clermont PCL 508 (PCL223)        94.6     23.2     1.50    1190    43.8    12960    1086   1.967
Accurate 2200                       89.9     20.9     1.35    1188    47.0    12960    1073   1.965
Bofors RP1 NT ~approximation        86.4     19.1     1.24    1188    50.1    12960    1020   1.943
Hodgdon H4198                       87.0     18.7     1.21    1185    51.0    12960    1025   1.946
Vihtavuori N133                    105.0     22.0     1.42    1183    48.2    12944    1038   1.978
ADI BM2                             91.0     22.1     1.43    1183    45.5    12960    1066   1.971
ReloadSwiss RS 40                   97.7     22.8     1.47    1182    43.3    12960    1057   1.974
ADI AR 2219                         93.3     22.0     1.43    1181    43.7    12960    1033   1.976
Hodgdon H322                        99.3     22.0     1.43    1181    43.7    12960    1033   1.976
Hodgdon Benchmark                   98.9     22.3     1.44    1180    45.2    12960    1060   1.973
ADI AR 2210                         94.0     22.2     1.44    1180    44.7    12960    1066   1.972
Alliant Reloder-12                  98.8     23.0     1.49    1178    44.8    12960    1037   1.981
Hodgdon H335                        94.7     23.6     1.53    1173    42.0    12960    1035   1.984
IMR 8208 XBR                       101.5     23.2     1.50    1168    41.2    12960    1013   1.986
Vihtavuori N530                    100.4     23.1     1.49    1163    40.5    12960    1019   1.991
Somchem S321                       101.5     25.0     1.62    1161    39.6    12960    1043   1.995
PB Clermont PCL 507                101.1     24.1     1.56    1161    39.5    12960    1000   1.994
Bofors RP11 TZ ~approximation      104.7     23.3     1.51    1161    42.4    12960    1012   1.996
ADI AR 2206                         99.4     22.5     1.46    1159    43.2    12960     995   1.993
Somchem S335                       105.0     23.5     1.52    1159    45.9    12063    1083   2.024
Lovex S060                         100.9     22.4     1.45    1159    42.4    12960     999   1.992
Ramshot X-Terminator                98.4     24.0     1.56    1158    40.6    12960    1011   1.993
Alliant AR-Comp                    105.0     23.2     1.50    1157    42.2    12828    1005   2.002
Hodgdon H4895                      105.0     24.0     1.55    1157    38.6    12691    1022   2.005
Accurate 2460                      105.0     25.8     1.67    1155    40.3    12912    1088   2.003
ADI AR 2206H                       105.0     24.0     1.55    1155    38.4    12700    1019   2.005
Lovex D073.4                       101.7     24.9     1.61    1153    40.7    12960    1057   2.001
Bofors RP2 NT ~approximation       101.2     22.9     1.49    1151    40.8    12960     965   2.002
Lovex D073.5                       105.0     25.7     1.67    1151    40.1    12786    1081   2.010
SNPE Vectan SP 9                   104.4     24.6     1.60    1143    37.2    12960     952   2.011
Norma 202                          105.0     23.6     1.53    1142    40.6    12151    1009   2.040
Ramshot Wild Boar                  102.0     24.9     1.61    1138    36.3    12960     941   2.017
Ramshot TAC                        100.5     24.8     1.61    1137    36.7    12960     950   2.014
Winchester 748                      99.9     24.6     1.59    1134    36.5    12960     929   2.020
Accurate 2230                      101.2     25.0     1.62    1131    38.4    12960     990   2.023
Rottweil R901                      105.0     22.8     1.48    1130    43.3    10084    1122   2.121
Hodgdon BL-C2                      104.8     26.1     1.69    1124    34.9    12960     947   2.033
ADI AR 2208                        105.0     23.3     1.51    1120    36.9    12305     898   2.057
Vihtavuori N540                    105.0     24.3     1.57    1119    39.1    11780     965   2.079
Vihtavuori N140                    105.0     23.5     1.52    1118    40.1    12009     932   2.070
Hodgdon VARGET                     105.0     23.2     1.50    1116    36.8    12192     892   2.064
PB Clermont PCL 516                104.4     25.4     1.65    1115    34.0    12960     887   2.042
Somchem S341                       102.9     25.3     1.64    1112    35.3    12960     875   2.044
Hodgdon CFE223                     101.3     25.8     1.67    1112    33.4    12960     881   2.044
Norma 201                          105.0     23.5     1.52    1099    38.6    10833     999   2.126
IMR 4320                           105.0     23.6     1.53    1098    34.6    12359     834   2.077
IMR 4895                           105.0     24.0     1.55    1092    33.9    11473     897   2.112
SNPE Vectan SP 7                   105.0     25.7     1.67    1092    33.6    12525     892   2.080
IMR 3031                           105.0     22.4     1.45    1091    36.9    11217     890   2.122
Bofors RP7 NT ~approximation       105.0     24.2     1.57    1087    32.4    12851     786   2.074
IMR 4064                           105.0     22.7     1.47    1082    35.7    11351     847   2.128
Bofors RP11 ~approximation         105.0     24.0     1.55    1080    33.4    11324     870   2.131
Raufoss RA11                       105.0     24.0     1.55    1080    33.4    11324     870   2.131
Alliant Reloder-15                 105.0     24.0     1.55    1080    33.4    11324     870   2.131
Ramshot Big Game                   105.0     25.6     1.66    1075    31.6    12201     811   2.109
Accurate 2520                      105.0     25.3     1.64    1072    34.2    11535     890   2.135
Rottweil R902                      105.0     23.1     1.50    1070    37.5    10282     943   2.180
Norma 203B                         105.0     24.0     1.55    1070    33.2    11082     857   2.152
Lovex S062                         105.0     23.3     1.51    1059    35.4    10417     877   2.191
ReloadSwiss RS 50                  105.0     25.0     1.62    1058    31.5    11573     804   2.149
Elcho TR140 - preliminary data     105.0     24.8     1.61    1056    32.0    11449     804   2.155
Lovex D073.6                       105.0     24.7     1.60    1045    33.1    10782     845   2.194
SNPE Vectan SP 11                  105.0     24.8     1.61    1043    30.6    11121     775   2.183
ReloadSwiss RS 52                  105.0     24.8     1.61    1042    30.8    11118     791   2.184
Bofors RP3 NT ~approximation       105.0     23.8     1.54    1042    31.6    11414     748   2.174
IMR 4007 SSC                       105.0     24.3     1.58    1024    30.3    10729     778   2.219

 

[HAWKEYESATX]

Try a hard cast 200 gr bullet.
That's the bread and butter weight for that cartridge.
I think you'll like it.
Or, try a jacketed hollow point in that weight.

Sent from my LG-TP450 using Tapatalk

 

[FOTIS]

Can you recommend one for my needs?

 

[HAWKEYESATX]

Use the 220 gr. It will dig deeper, and might yaw in the target, causing more tissue damage and fluid loss

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[mjcmichigan]

I like the 220. Their recommended speed for expansion was 700 and change.

It would penetrate and open


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[FOTIS]

I like the 220. Their recommended speed for expansion was 700 and change.

It would penetrate and open


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OK I am confused. Yes which 220 because the Lehigh will not expand

 

[FOTIS]

I like the 220. Their recommended speed for expansion was 700 and change.

It would penetrate and open


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

OK I am confused. Yes which 220 because the Lehigh will not expand

 

[mjcmichigan]

I like the 220. Their recommended speed for expansion was 700 and change.

It would penetrate and open


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

OK I am confused. Yes which 220 because the Lehigh will not expand

The spec confused me with the 720fps min. And the 2-4x wound cavity. Sounds like a great round. The 220 Leigh. I have to think with the rotation those fingers work like grinders...

No expansion, just violence




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[mjcmichigan]

I like the 220. Their recommended speed for expansion was 700 and change.

It would penetrate and open


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

OK I am confused. Yes which 220 because the Lehigh will not expand

I’m a little confused with the spec.2-4diameter wound channel. The Leigh says it works down to min720fps, so should be more than good with the 220 Leigh.


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[Savvy_Jack]

Fotis did you ever load up and shoot any of those? Just curious of the results

 

[FOTIS]

Just the 200 XTP at 1150 fps with 24 gr of RL7........ Very accurate at 100 yds.

 

[Savvy_Jack]

Just the 200 XTP at 1150 fps with 24 gr of RL7........ Very accurate at 100 yds.

That is awesome because I was going to recommend Reloder 7. I have never tried those bullets and it looks like they are out of stock.

Winchester did use a total jacketed bullet although not well known. I would like to try both some day but my testing days are basically done.

Reloder 7 is the most accurate powder I have used and have had awesome results with it.

I got Tom over at Accurate Molds to custom make a mold for me. It is the 43-214A and casts 220gr pending what mix is used.

https://sites.google.com/view/44-40-win ... d-4-groups

I never did a Pressuretrace II trace on the 43-215A but I did for the 43-215C. The data I got was right at 10,500psi which is lower than SAAMI's 11,000psi MAX, plenty safe for the Uberti Winchester 73'.