2 & 1 out?

[jmad_81]

Is there anything that can cause this besides COAL? I was giving my 338 WM one more chance (for the sixth time) to shoot the 225 AB before I switched bullets this last week. I looked at all the targets I had shot with it over the last few years, and concluded that it like 73.5 gr RL-19 the best. The best group I found was .485" loaded as long as the box would let me, 3.378" @ 2789 fps ( not what I had hoped for in the fps department, but I can live with it).

So I loaded up three with 73.5 RL-19, some 225 ABs, and 215M, and three more with WLRM. Both at the same lenght. I shot the 215M first. First two were around .75", I was getting pretty dang excited! Then I shot the third, 2" high, 1/2" right, aaaand not so happy :? I shot the WLRM load and it did the exact same thing. The only thing I can think of is that I wasn't letting it cool very long (it was low 30s anyways), and it was always the third shot that got thrown out. This, along with the other target I had that was under .5", leads me to believe that it is trying to shoot the 225 AB, but shomthing with the rifle is not liking being warm.

Whats your thoughts?

Thanks.

 

[DrMike]

Jake,

Is this observation consistent? Do the first two always give you group and the third out? Or is it that one out of three will be out, though it is inconsistent which round it is? If the first two are always in, it would likely indicate a pressure point somewhere. If it is consistent, you can always consider that it is most unusual that you get a third shot in the field in any case, though it would be nice to see if there is a pressure point that is impinging on the barrel at some point.

 

[jmad_81]

I have never really paid attention to what shot number was thrown out untill the other day when it was number 3 both times. I'll load a few more of the same thing up again and try it agian. Maybe shoot three fast, and then shoot one at a time with lots of cool down time and see what I get.

I sure hope I never have to get to shot three in the field, but sometimes it can happen. I know on the hunts where I only get to shoot once I always feel kind of bummed out about only getting to shoot once :lol:

 

[DrMike]

Anytime I've shot three, it either meant a bad hit and a running animal, or that I was really intent on keeping the animal down. It may be instructive to note whether there is a pattern or a randomness to the one out.

 

[FOTIS]

Ahh the ole dreaded 2 and 1

In my experience COAL and primer change will cure that.

 

[SJB358]

Jake, I'm with Mike. I think you have something binding. Just seems like if it's your third shot falling out, your heat has built up enough to toss that third round. If it was throwing it 3/4"-1" out, I would tweak seating or primers, but 2" seems more like a bedding deal.

 

[338winmag]

Hi Jmad_81,
Have you tried the H4831. I had exactly the same experience with RL19, H4350, and IMR 4350 along with seating depths and different primer combinations.

I was looking thru the Nosler #6 Reloading manual and noticed it presented decent figures for the H4831. I had nothing to loose. It was almost immediate success and at 200 yards.

Now I mentioned this all before in a thread but I now realize there was one other thing I did ..... I might get a lot of laughs and snickers on this but.... I also added a Limbsaver Barrel De-resonator this last summer. Yes I know people say that is what reloading is supposed to successfully accomplish without this voodoo piece of rubber.

Bottom line: I moved it a few times 3\8" back and forth approximately 1 1/2" from the forestock. My Vanguard is shooting consistent 5/8" groups and often smaller at 200 yards. I will post 2012 target pics when I go out again here soon.

With your 225 ABs, try H4831 and maybe try the $10.00 De-resonator. I won't shoot any other bullet now and to think I almost gave up on them.

I have to agree with JD338 about "speed sells but accuracy kills". My loads average about 2781 but they sure are accurate. I sent my chrony out to get recalibrated and it is on its way home so I can record velocities again.

Hope that gives you another option.
338winmag

 

[DrMike]

No snickers from me about the LimbSaver De-resonator. They work. I just prefer other methods of achieving accuracy (primarily an aesthetics thing).

 

[jmad_81]

Well i'll reshoot the few I loaded tonight then give 4831 a shot. I have the rubber piece, I took it off cause I couldn't tell much difference (and didn't like the looks of it), but I didn't play with it a ton either.

Thanks.

 

[rjm158]

Jmad, I had the same problem with a .338 Federal that would consistently shoot 6-7 inch groups at 100 yds. The first and third shots would be closest but the second was always a long way apart. I tried different powders, bullets, and OALs but nothing worked. I scrubbed the bore, took the action out of the stock to check the fit, tightened all the screws, etc., but no dice. The absolute best I ever got was about 3 inches with the same type of dispersment. For me, the heat wasn't a factor because it would do this with an absolutely cold barrel.

I never found the solution and decided the rifle needed to be somewhere else. I decided to use the money to buy components for my rifles that WOULD shoot.

Ron

 

[bullet]

You need to give the AccuBond a real good jump. Change primer, give it a longer jump and if it continues then it has to do with neck tension and or bedding. Change as recommended above then shoot a five shot group waiting 3 minutes between shots and if above 70 degrees wait five minutes. I use to have trouble some years back getting the AccuBond to shoot and found out that I was not giving it a good jump. The AccuBond is a harder bullet than you might think and it needs the jump to obturate like it should for shot after shot consistency. Of course all chambers are different but I think the above mentioned options might help.

 

[jmad_81]

Well with them loaded @ 3.378" they are still .148" off the lands. I have tried both 215 M, and WLRM primers. I'm using Nolser brass, and have used winchester brass as well. I'll shoot and let it cool more between shots. If that is the problem I'll rebed it. If not I might send her to the docter next winter to have a some tube replacement treatment.

All I know is that if I don't do something different, this gun is going to nickle and dime me to death. I keep telling myself that if it doesn't work this time, I'm done. A few months later I'm back at it. I can't help it, we have a love hate thing going on I think.

 

[SJB358]

Well with them loaded @ 3.378" they are still .148" off the lands. I have tried both 215 M, and WLRM primers. I'm using Nolser brass, and have used winchester brass as well. I'll shoot and let it cool more between shots. If that is the problem I'll rebed it. If not I might send her to the docter next winter to have a some tube replacement treatment.

All I know is that if I don't do something different, this gun is going to nickle and dime me to death. I keep telling myself that if it doesn't work this time, I'm done. A few months later I'm back at it. I can't help it, we have a love hate thing going on I think.

I would just check over the bedding, check the tq on the screws and small things you can control. Something has to give. It is showing it'll do two in a good group, something has to be monkeying up the third.

 

[bullet]

Well with them loaded @ 3.378" they are still .148" off the lands. I have tried both 215 M, and WLRM primers. I'm using Nolser brass, and have used winchester brass as well. I'll shoot and let it cool more between shots. If that is the problem I'll rebed it. If not I might send her to the docter next winter to have a some tube replacement treatment.

All I know is that if I don't do something different, this gun is going to nickle and dime me to death. I keep telling myself that if it doesn't work this time, I'm done. A few months later I'm back at it. I can't help it, we have a love hate thing going on I think.

Been there, why not look at the bedding.

 

[OU812]

Have you ever tried shooting 1 shot at a time with 5-10 minutes in between (to make sure the barrel is nice and cold) for a 3 shot group and see what happens?

Bill

 

[SJB358]

Have you ever tried shooting 1 shot at a time with 5-10 minutes in between (to make sure the barrel is nice and cold) for a 3 shot group and see what happens?

Bill

Thats a good one too Bill. I know it takes just about every piece of patience I have to do it, but it does show you what the rifle is doing cold.

 

[OU812]

Have you ever tried shooting 1 shot at a time with 5-10 minutes in between (to make sure the barrel is nice and cold) for a 3 shot group and see what happens?

Bill

Thats a good one too Bill. I know it takes just about every piece of patience I have to do it, but it does show you what the rifle is doing cold.

Scotty I use that method quite a bit just so I know my load is repeatable in the conditions i will be using it in, a cold fouled barrel is what I have while hunting and that is the only condition I care about.

Bill

 

[338winmag]

Hey JMAD_81,
Took the new 7mm-08 for its breakin' today and I mentioned that i would take the 338winmag out as well. I had time at the end of the day to shoot a fouler and a 3 shot group.

I was a little concerned what the group would look like because I took Scotty's expert recommendation on barrel cleaning products and it cleaned my "cleaned" barrel better than I was even close to expecting. (BTE, Iosso and Kroil - combination is beyond awesome - super thanks Scotty!!)

First fouling shot is a Hornday 225 gr SP (high);
3 shot group - Nosler 225 gr Accubonds .615"

Weatherby Vanguard Series 1
Limbsaver De-resonator approx. 7/8" from forestock
Winchester Cases
Federal 215m primers
74.3 gr H4831sc
.032 off the lands
2786 FPS

I know if I would have tried harder and shot a few more groups I could have got this smaller than the .615 center to center. This 4831sc powder is incredible with my 338 Win Mag.

 

[jmad_81]

Sure can't argue with that. Nice work!

 

[DrMike]

I'm certain that was a most gratifying day. That is an excellent grouping. Congratulations.