2012 Alaska Hunt

[35 Whelen]

Been trying to make up my mind where to go this fall and just had an offer from an old pilot buddy up in Petersburg to come up and hunt Mountain Goat with him this fall with Blacktails as a bonus.
He has a plane on bigs tires and mostly hunts out on the islands and there is a healthy population of brown bears everywhere we will be hunting. Should be a good trip as I have never hunted down there before and he is anxious to show me the county! He hunts here with us in Maine alot for Whitetails . He will be hunting with his .358 Win in a BLR. I will most likely take the Whelen and even though I will have some 250 Partitions along for any bear problems . I am thinking maybe some 225 for an all around load incase I gotta take a longish shot at the goat??? My gun shoots the 225 Sierras nicely but dont really know about using that bullet on a goat at 300 yds ???? Wonder how that 225 Accubonds would work? As we have not tryed them at all in any caliber. I did buy a mess of the Custom Ammo last fall in 165gr for the 06; but havnt shot anything with them yet. However I have not used them in the Whelen at all , So question is this;
Anyone shooting that 225gr AccuBond on larger game; than just deer................ or maybe another way of asking the same question is how about can anyone give me some actual kills using the 225 Sierra Bt on game larger than just deer.

 

[nvbroncrider]

Well in the .35 your PT has a higher BC so I'd just stick with that or go to your 06 with 165's for your goat. Wouldn't hurt though to take the .35 at least then if you run into trouble you have a hammer. Your only dropping 13.5 inches @ 300 or 30 @ 400 so it's not horrible if your @ 2800 MV.

 

[35 Whelen]

Thanks NV but I am only going to tote ONE Gun so its gotta be the Whelen........... just thought that the 225 BT would perform better on a real long shot..................... if I were taking the 06 I would just use my 165gr load I have used in it for 35 years; and I am sure it would do fine like it always does . I have however tryed that load on Brown Bears before and was NOT too impressed with it on them at ALL.

 

[Guy Miner]

I don't really have any .35 cal bullet advice for you, but dang that's got the potential to be a GREAT hunt!

 

[35 Whelen]

Guy it will be; As he is a prince of a fella, and we used to guide togeather and fish spot togeather, so if we never shot anything it would be a great trip ............ he knows where the big ones are and has produced some awesome goats in the past . And because he is a very active handloader and a real "big bore" sorta guy; He is full of great information, as he has a pile of 348 /358/375 experence on bears, and is an Elmer K follower with his 45/70s and 450 Alaskans; so the campfire discussions go on until the stars are at their maximum briteness ..................
Lucky for him I can still make a decent pan of biscuits; as he does have a weakness, he isnt much of a cook!!!!

 

[gerry]

The 225 gr AccuBond will work great on your hunt unless you want to try the new 200 gr AccuBond coming out which would also work well on a goat, I hope to try the 200's on a big billy this coming fall

 

[35 Whelen]

gerry,
Thanks for the input; but I dont want to go below a 225gr in the Whelen; as below that, I would just load up some 200 gr Noslers in my 06............... but want to use the Whelen up in S.E. AK; because of the high population of brown bears, and we will be around them everyday . So I am sorta fishin here, hoping to hear from someone, that has actually used these Accubonds on something larger than just guys that have shot a deer with them. And am starting to get the feeling that there isnt really alot of actual kill data, floating around about them on here; in the larger bores???
However good luck to you on your hunt and I hope you have good luck with the 200gr bullets!

 

[DrMike]

Earl,

I haven't used the 225 AB for anything with my Whelen (or with my 358) to date. I was loading 225 grain TSX in my Whelen (and 200 grain TSX in my 358). Velocities were excellent, but bullet performance wasn't all I had hoped it would be. I'll be getting my Whelen back any day, and I will be loading PTs and/or ABs, most likely in 225 grain weights. Best of luck on your hunt in Alaska. That's a great opportunity.

 

[CatskillCrawler]

I have had good success (small sample size) and witnessed (much more) success with the 225gr SGK on hooved animals. I would not, for the life of me..., bring it into the Alaskan islands as my round in a 358Win or Whelen. I would use a 225 or 250gr bullet that ends with Partition, AccuBond, A-Frame, TSX, North Fork or Woodleigh.

YMMV

 

[gerry]

gerry,
Thanks for the input; but I dont want to go below a 225gr in the Whelen; as below that, I would just load up some 200 gr Noslers in my 06............... but want to use the Whelen up in S.E. AK; because of the high population of brown bears, and we will be around them everyday . So I am sorta fishin here, hoping to hear from someone, that has actually used these Accubonds on something larger than just guys that have shot a deer with them. And am starting to get the feeling that there isnt really alot of actual kill data, floating around about them on here; in the larger bores???
However good luck to you on your hunt and I hope you have good luck with the 200gr bullets!

Not sure if you saw this thread but this guy was bigger than a deer farther down the page is a picture of the recovered AccuBond.

viewtopic.php?f=5&t=17139

There are a few threads on 24hourcampfire of guys taking elk with them as well and being quite happy with them.

 

[35 Whelen]

Thanks Catskill on that comment, I think probably I am thinking the same way you do. And did see that picture of the recovered bullet Gerry so thanks for that too. I am just thinking if I can convience myself that the AccuBond is the way to go. I will dive into a tradjectory chart and see how much drop I am going to have if its rolling along at say 2700fps from the Whelen and I have it lined up dead on at 200yds. I am guessing 8" possible less???? Seams like that is workable even out to 350 to kill a Billy if you held right at the top of the back but still in the hair but maybe I am wrong.
You guys probably know that data better than me. I have NOT done a whole lot of longer shooting with my Whelen and have mostly kept it under 200 yds but for this hunt I can imagine that even though we will try to climb as close as we can, lots of times it just doestn work out textbook and I may have to take a long one......................... well see.

Mike as you already know I avg about 1 1/4" groups with this gun, and the 225 GKings.......... so have no idea on this AccuBond deal; but I think it would have to have better real world attributes on a Mountain Goat at 300 yards................... because of the nature of this hunt, involving the abundance of large Brownies; and possibly needing to take a "long one" hunting this perticular animal; it is a very strange combination to get the best all around projectile.
You can rest assured that at nite, back in the tent, the Hawkeye will rest with some 250PTs or the 310 Woodleighs in her,just in the odd case, we her to do any survial work, afterdark; with brother bruin! :shock:
Thanks for the help
E

 

[CatskillCrawler]

Based on my recollection, suspect at best..., a 225gr AB at ~2700fps dialed in at +2" @ 100yds will have a 3" MBPR of ~250yds and -8" @ 300yds and still have 2500ft/lbs of death.

I've ran this thru my head and across paper numerous times. This is the load I desire for my future Whelen. Don't take this wannabe's ramblings as bible though. I'm certain there's someone here who has a table produced from live firings.

 

[35 Whelen]

I am sure Uncle Mike, could tell me within a frogs hair split 5 ways; exactly where that thing will print at 300 and 350 ..................... probably after all this drama we will never see a bear or a goat ........... or the goat will be 35 yds and we could have killed it with a 32-20 .................. but I am not going to count on that. If it wasnt for the bear county part of it; I would just tote my old .270 with the Zeiss 3X9 Rapid Z on it; and some 140 gr Noslers, and try one, right out to the edge of the spectrum! Just getting that scope up and running and have high hopes for it!

 

[DrMike]

Happy to oblige.

This data is calculated assuming max chamber pressure of 65k psi, using RL15 and 225 grain Nosler AB. Surprisingly, you get slightly more velocity using a 225 grain Nosler PT, though you burn somewhat more powder.

Tabular trajectory data at Std.ICAO Atmosphere
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Gun / Ammunition : .35 Whelen
Bullet : .358, 225, Nosler AccuBond 50712
Bullet weight : 225 grains or 14.58 Grams
Muzzle velocity : 2695 fps
Crosswind speed : 10 Mph
Ballistic Coefficient(s) (G1):
C1=0.421@V>0 fps;


Optimum trajectory information :
Optimum sight-in range (X) = 187 Yds.
with max. ordinate above LOS at range (M)= 115 Yds.
and max. point blank range (P)= 215 Yds.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Sight-in clicks, 1 click = 4.0 cm/100 m or 1.575 in/100 m
Height of sight above bore axis = 5.0 cm or 1.969 inch
Gun is zeroed-in at 200 yds,
by sighting-in at level firing
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Range Velo Time of Energy Path Deflection Total Sight correction Target
city flight to at crosswind drop for setting new lead
LOS of 10.0 Mph zero range 33 fps
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
·Yards fps s ft.lbs. in. in. MOA in. Clicks MOA yds ·
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
| 0 2695 0.0000 3628 -2.0 0.0 ----- 0.0 ------ ----- 0.00
| 25 2641 0.0282 3485 -0.5 0.1 0.26 0.2 +1.5 +2.07 0.31
| 50 2589 0.0569 3347 +0.6 0.2 0.43 0.6 -0.8 -1.09 0.62
| 75 2536 0.0862 3214 +1.4 0.5 0.60 1.4 -1.3 -1.74 0.94
| 100 2485 0.1158 3084 +1.8 0.8 0.75 2.5 -1.3 -1.75 1.27
M 121 2442 0.1411 2978 +1.9 1.1 0.89 3.7 -1.1 -1.54 1.54
| 125 2434 0.1460 2959 +1.9 1.2 0.92 4.0 -1.1 -1.49 1.60
| 150 2383 0.1770 2837 +1.7 1.8 1.12 5.8 -0.8 -1.08 1.94
| 175 2333 0.2089 2720 +1.0 2.5 1.35 8.0 -0.4 -0.57 2.28
X 200 2284 0.2415 2606 0.0 3.3 1.58 10.7 0.0 0.00 2.64
| 225 2235 0.2748 2496 -1.5 4.3 1.82 13.7 +0.5 +0.63 3.01
P 226 2234 0.2762 2492 -1.6 4.3 1.83 13.8 +0.5 +0.65 3.02
| 250 2187 0.3089 2390 -3.4 5.4 2.06 17.2 +0.9 +1.29 3.38
| 275 2140 0.3437 2288 -5.8 6.6 2.29 21.1 +1.5 +2.00 3.76
| 300 2093 0.3791 2188 -8.6 7.9 2.53 25.5 +2.0 +2.73 4.15
| 325 2047 0.4152 2092 -11.9 9.4 2.76 30.4 +2.5 +3.49 4.54
| 350 2001 0.4519 1999 -15.7 11.0 2.99 35.8 +3.1 +4.27 4.94
| 375 1955 0.4890 1910 -19.9 12.6 3.21 41.6 +3.7 +5.06 5.35
| 400 1910 0.5275 1823 -24.8 14.5 3.45 48.0 +4.3 +5.91 5.77
| 425 1867 0.5672 1740 -30.3 16.6 3.72 55.2 +4.9 +6.81 6.20
| 450 1823 0.6082 1661 -36.5 18.9 4.01 62.9 +5.6 +7.75 6.65
| 475 1781 0.6503 1585 -43.4 21.4 4.30 71.4 +6.3 +8.73 7.11
| 500 1740 0.6934 1512 -51.1 24.1 4.60 80.7 +7.1 +9.75 7.58
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
M = Peak vs. L.O.S, X = Set Zero, P = Max. Point Blank Range
Elevation above Angle of Site (0.0 deg.) = 0.1005 deg.

Not a bad load. At 300 yards, you still generate almost 2200 ft-lbs of energy.

 

[CatskillCrawler]

See! There's still some active passageways in the crypts of my mind. Now, if I could only find my allen wrench set... :?

 

[35 Whelen]

Thanks Mike for posting that! So what ya think if I rangefind a goat at 350YDS; and I have the gun lined up dead on at 200 yds; and the chart shows we are then going to be 16 3/4 inches low with our load that is starting to sound ifffy................. if we held right at the top of his back it seams like we are going to be way down the front end of him arent we??? Even if I held right up the his front leg with the vertical crosshair we may wind up with just taking out a front leg???? I am not into a grand old goat, spending the reminder of his years, limping around trying to stay away from wolves with a leg out , while I am down on some Southern Sea Isle; drinking frostie beverages with an umbrella in it???? I think I better call 300 yds the very end of it and either climb on him or just NOT shoot!

 

[DrMike]

Yeah, I set the specs for that load at 65k psi. You won't wring too much more velocity out of the cartridge with that bullet. I'd probably hold myself to a 300 yard shot, knowing the trajectory after 300 yards looks like a pumpkin thrown by a little old lady.

 

[JD338]

Earle,

My 35 Whelen experience is primarily with the 225 gr PT on WT and a Black Bear.

The 225 gr AB at 2700 fps should prove plenty for 350 yd shots on a Mt Goat. The 250 gr PT at 2600 fps is no slouch and will deliver the goods out that far as well. A CDS dial would be perfect.

JD338

 

[mcseal2]

I don't have any experience with the 35 Whelen personally, but have used the accubonds on game up to elk and really like them. They open fast for shock but still retain 60% or more every time I recover one. They are my favorite bullet and I use them in everything I shoot that they make them for.

For the rest of it, it depends on how far you want to be able to shoot. If it was me and I was going on your hunt where shots may be long and targets aren't huge I'd try working up a load with the 225AB. Once I got a good shooting load that gave me good consistent velocities on the chronograph I'd have a turret built to match it for the average elevation I'd be hunting in AK. I'd practice with it until I knew how far I could use it with confidence at home and then in AK I'd leave it on 200yds and forget it unless I ranged a target past 250yds.

Using my ballistics program figuring a 225gr AB at 2700fps you would start dropping over an inch every 10yds at 260yds. At 300yds you are -8.77" and at 400yds you are -25.54. If it were me I'd feel better about shots with a proven turret and a range from a rangefinder that gives true "shoot to" distance than guessing at hold-overs.

If you sight in for max point blank range with those ballistics and figure you are ok with being +/- 3" you can zero for 2.75" high at 100yds, be 3" high at 130yds, dead on at 225yds, and drop to 3" low at 265yds.

You will have to start adjusting past 265yds, how you do it is up to you. If you don't shoot over 200yds at home a turret may never be useful again. If you plan to do other hunts where shots may be longer it may be a good addition to your rifle.

Sounds like a great hunt, be sure to tell us stories when it's over.

 

[35 Whelen]

mcseal,
That is excellent advise and I hadnt even thought about the turret at all but its an interesting alternate! How much moola is it to have one made up as I have not traveled on that road before??
I really only ever use this rifle here in Maine on Moose and wounded Bear so it doesnt get a huge amount of use compared to the 06 or 270 does. I have the Rapid Z on the 270 so can do it that way for a long shot here in a bog or clearcut .
This turret is an interesting way of doing this as I am guessing that even at 350 if you ranged it and dailed in the turret you would still arrive there with a ton of energy ????? Does that sound right??
e