25-06 Improved

[rjm158]

I saw some rifles in this chambering advertised on Gunbroker. I did a search but it didn't have any responses.

Does anyone here own one or had the opportunity to use one? How much "improvement" is there? Any difficulties reloading it?

I know several here have 280 AI's but haven't seen this cartridge mentioned.

Ron

 

[Desert Fox]

There's a void in my safe for this caliber. If I decide to build one, it will be a toss up between 257 Robert Ackley or the 25-06 Ackley. My inclination is to go with the 25-06 but then again I like the idea of a 257 in a short action also. Knowing me, I probably gonna ended up with both.

 

[JD338]

rjm158

A 25-06 AI will get you on the heals of a 257 Wby. My buddy is having one made and should have it in his hands this spring. I will report actual improvements when we run it over my chronograph.

I have a 280 AI and it is a very impressive and effecient round. Probably the reason you are not seeing any for sale.

JD338

 

[FOTIS]

This will give you an idea.

Cartridge : .25-06 Ack Imp.
Bullet : .257, 110, Nosler AccuBond 53742
Useable Case Capaci: 69.320 grain H2O = 4.501 cm³
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 3.400 inch = 86.36 mm
Barrel Length : 24.0 inch = 609.6 mm

Predicted Data for Indicated Charges of the Following Powders.
Matching Maximum Pressure: 63000 psi, or 434 MPa
or a maximum loading ratio or filling of 110 %
These calculations refer to your specified settings in QuickLOAD 'Cartridge Dimensions' window.
C A U T I O N : any load listed can result in a powder charge that falls below minimum suggested
loads or exceeds maximum suggested loads as presented in current handloading manuals. Understand
that all of the listed powders can be unsuitable for the given combination of cartridge, bullet
and gun. Actual load order can vary, depending upon lot-to-lot powder and component variations.
USE ONLY FOR COMPARISON !

159 loads produced a Loading Ratio below user-defined minimum of 90%. These powders have been skipped.
Powder type Filling/Loading Ratio Charge Charge Vel. Prop.Burnt P max P muzz B_Time
% Grains Gramm fps % psi psi ms
--------------------------------- -----------------------------------------------------------------
ADI AR 2218 109.7 74.7 4.84 3398 96.8 63000 16846 1.097 ! Near Maximum !
Vihtavuori N570 106.0 71.4 4.63 3387 96.5 63000 16551 1.118 ! Near Maximum !
Hodgdon Retumbo 109.8 70.6 4.57 3364 100.0 63000 14760 1.110 ! Near Maximum !
Vihtavuori N560 97.4 63.6 4.12 3332 98.9 63000 15113 1.115 ! Near Maximum !
Ramshot Magnum (Big Boy) 99.7 68.2 4.42 3329 99.6 63000 14814 1.114 ! Near Maximum !
Norma MRP 2 105.2 67.2 4.36 3329 99.5 63000 15061 1.128 ! Near Maximum !
PB Clermont PCL 517 100.1 68.2 4.42 3328 99.6 63000 14801 1.114 ! Near Maximum !
SNPE Vectan SP 12 99.9 68.1 4.42 3327 99.6 63000 14773 1.114 ! Near Maximum !
Norma MRP 95.5 63.7 4.13 3327 100.0 63000 14617 1.123 ! Near Maximum !
IMR 7828 101.8 63.2 4.10 3326 99.2 63000 14683 1.104 ! Near Maximum !
IMR 7828 SSC 96.3 63.2 4.10 3326 99.2 63000 14683 1.104 ! Near Maximum !
Alliant Reloder-25 103.1 65.5 4.25 3326 100.0 63000 14039 1.115 ! Near Maximum !
Accurate MAGPRO 97.6 66.3 4.29 3319 97.9 63000 15200 1.124 ! Near Maximum !
ADI AR 2213 97.4 62.9 4.08 3315 99.2 63000 14551 1.101 ! Near Maximum !
ADI AP 2214 101.2 67.1 4.35 3311 99.5 63000 14342 1.101 ! Near Maximum !
Hodgdon H1000 106.4 67.3 4.36 3308 99.5 63000 14301 1.101 ! Near Maximum !
Raufoss RA15 97.7 63.1 4.09 3306 99.8 63000 14487 1.120 ! Near Maximum !
Alliant Reloder-22 97.7 63.1 4.09 3306 99.8 63000 14487 1.120 ! Near Maximum !
Bofors RP5/NP ~approximation 97.7 63.1 4.09 3306 99.8 63000 14487 1.120 ! Near Maximum !
Winchester WXR 100.3 63.4 4.11 3304 99.7 63000 14502 1.121 ! Near Maximum !
Rottweil R905 99.0 62.8 4.07 3280 98.9 63000 14244 1.117 ! Near Maximum !
ADI AR 2209 94.5 60.1 3.89 3276 99.7 63000 13834 1.104 ! Near Maximum !
Hodgdon H870 110.0 72.6 4.70 3272 97.1 57748 15709 1.169 ! Near Maximum !
Alliant Reloder-19 95.0 60.7 3.93 3271 99.7 63000 13880 1.111 ! Near Maximum !
Vihtavuori 24N41 108.4 73.8 4.78 3268 90.9 63000 14888 1.109 ! Near Maximum !
Bofors RP14 ~approximation 95.7 61.2 3.96 3263 99.7 63000 13779 1.112 ! Near Maximum !
Hodgdon H4350 90.5 57.5 3.73 3263 100.0 63000 13210 1.110 ! Near Maximum !
Ramshot Hunter 90.7 59.8 3.88 3258 100.0 63000 13350 1.118 ! Near Maximum !
IMR 4350 92.9 56.9 3.68 3256 100.0 63000 13222 1.111 ! Near Maximum !
Norma 204 90.3 59.6 3.86 3252 99.6 63000 13581 1.109 ! Near Maximum !
Raufoss RA4 93.2 59.6 3.86 3252 99.6 63000 13581 1.109 ! Near Maximum !
Bofors RP4 ~approximation 93.2 59.6 3.86 3252 99.6 63000 13581 1.109 ! Near Maximum !
Hodgdon H4831 SC 96.3 62.2 4.03 3250 98.7 63000 13770 1.109 ! Near Maximum !
Hodgdon H4831 100.2 62.2 4.03 3250 98.7 63000 13770 1.109 ! Near Maximum !
Norma URP 90.3 57.1 3.70 3237 100.0 63000 12838 1.122 ! Near Maximum !
Bofors RP19 ~approximation 90.3 57.1 3.70 3237 100.0 63000 12834 1.122 ! Near Maximum !
Accurate 4350 93.4 57.1 3.70 3230 100.0 63000 12808 1.141 ! Near Maximum !
Somchem S365 91.7 58.3 3.78 3228 100.0 63000 12439 1.133 ! Near Maximum !
Somchem S385 95.1 61.4 3.98 3228 99.9 63000 13239 1.131 ! Near Maximum !
Rottweil R904 94.2 59.4 3.85 3228 99.1 63000 13321 1.108 ! Near Maximum !
Vihtavuori N170 109.2 69.0 4.47 3225 95.1 63000 14147 1.133 ! Near Maximum !
Winchester Supreme 780 93.8 63.2 4.10 3220 99.7 63000 13191 1.118 ! Near Maximum !
IMR 4831 94.7 57.9 3.75 3215 100.0 63000 12562 1.131 ! Near Maximum !
Vihtavuori N165 100.1 63.3 4.10 3212 99.9 63000 12946 1.123 ! Near Maximum !
Lovex-S0701 90.4 57.1 3.70 3212 100.0 63000 12836 1.125 ! Near Maximum !
Vihtavuori N160 100.5 61.6 3.99 3207 99.1 63000 13057 1.113 ! Near Maximum !
Accurate 3100 103.5 62.5 4.05 3205 100.0 63000 12795 1.148 ! Near Maximum !
Lovex-D1001 106.0 72.9 4.72 3193 91.6 63000 13797 1.124 ! Near Maximum !
Hodgdon Hybrid 100V 95.9 57.3 3.71 3189 100.0 63000 11891 1.123 ! Near Maximum !
Vihtavuori N150 90.9 54.8 3.55 3129 100.0 63000 11257 1.127 ! Near Maximum !
Hodgdon US 869 110.0 74.9 4.85 3110 88.4 54662 14251 1.198
Hodgdon 50BMG 110.0 71.4 4.62 3104 83.9 54276 14320 1.196
SNPE Vectan SP 13 110.0 71.8 4.65 3040 92.2 50261 13908 1.254

 

[SJB358]

Wow, it looks pretty good to me! Scotty

 

[JD338]

Here is an update, my buddy called me to tell me he has his 25-06 AI. This is a Howa action with a Hart #5 Flutted 26" barrel. Fire forming loads are shooting .5-.75". Not bad for a new rifle but I know it will do better. The gunsmith that built my 280 AI built this 25-06 AI. It will be a shooter for sure.

JD338

 

[Songdog]

Having owned not one.... but two .25-06AIs.... I feel impelled to comment on the subject.

Both of mine would do roughly what POP's quickload program predicts. My most recent one would squirt 110 ABs at 3350 running 64.5 grains of RE-22 (my current .25-06 will shoot them at 3225). However.... were I to do it again.... I'd just go .264 Winny. If you look at the charges it takes to get any significant gain over the standard .25-06, you'll see that they're within about 2-5% of standard .264 charges with similar weight bullets. Don't get me wrong.... a .25 cal 100 NBT at 3500-3550 is no joke (as you Roy boys know).... but you can do that with the .264 all day long.... and then some, with powder charges that are about equal.

Truth be told.... I don't know that I'd really AI anything anymore... ok, maybe a quick spun .223. Lots of folks seem to think that when you go AI you get some free lunch... and that just ain't the case.... Barnsness has show time and time again that you gain velocity at 1/4 of the rate you gain case capacity.
Meaning: if your AI'd case has 5-10% more capacity than the parent (which is about standard).... then you'll net about 1-3% in velocity gains. On the .25-06/100 grainer combo that means about 100fps.... and hell, I've seen more than a few barrels that make more than 100fps difference.

Now.... the AI can handle a little more pressure than the parent.... but added pressure ain't really an apples to apples comparison, now is it? I can run a standard .25-06 at 70+K and get 3500 out of a 100 grainer.... but primer pockets get squishy pretty quick.... same is true with your 40* shouldered darling.

Do and AI because it's cool.... and every rifle crank should have one (or seven) at some point.... but don't be expecting it to outrun the parent by much.... after all.... the apple doesn't fall too far from the tree.

 

[BK]

To me, AIs are all about not trimming brass as often. Well, and they look cool as heck! Any added velocity is a bonus.

 

[SJB358]

Having owned not one.... but two .25-06AIs.... I feel impelled to comment on the subject.

Both of mine would do roughly what POP's quickload program predicts. My most recent one would squirt 110 ABs at 3350 running 64.5 grains of RE-22 (my current .25-06 will shoot them at 3225). However.... were I to do it again.... I'd just go .264 Winny. If you look at the charges it takes to get any significant gain over the standard .25-06, you'll see that they're within about 2-5% of standard .264 charges with similar weight bullets. Don't get me wrong.... a .25 cal 100 NBT at 3500-3550 is no joke (as you Roy boys know).... but you can do that with the .264 all day long.... and then some, with powder charges that are about equal.

Truth be told.... I don't know that I'd really AI anything anymore... ok, maybe a quick spun .223. Lots of folks seem to think that when you go AI you get some free lunch... and that just ain't the case.... Barnsness has show time and time again that you gain velocity at 1/4 of the rate you gain case capacity.
Meaning: if your AI'd case has 5-10% more capacity than the parent (which is about standard).... then you'll net about 1-3% in velocity gains. On the .25-06/100 grainer combo that means about 100fps.... and hell, I've seen more than a few barrels that make more than 100fps difference.

Now.... the AI can handle a little more pressure than the parent.... but added pressure ain't really an apples to apples comparison, now is it? I can run a standard .25-06 at 70+K and get 3500 out of a 100 grainer.... but primer pockets get squishy pretty quick.... same is true with your 40* shouldered darling.

Do and AI because it's cool.... and every rifle crank should have one (or seven) at some point.... but don't be expecting it to outrun the parent by much.... after all.... the apple doesn't fall too far from the tree.

Just so happens I just found a 264. Might have to try those little 100gr'ers out. I would imagine them or the 120's would be laser flat! Scotty

 

[FOTIS]

Scotty 2 Hottie...

I got about 3650 fps with the 100 gr BT's in my 70 winnie 264.... :mrgreen:

 

[Songdog]

Scotty 2 Hottie...

I got about 3650 fps with the 100 gr BT's in my 70 winnie 264.... :mrgreen:

Me too (though mine was a Remmy)..... and they do angry things to critter clockwork!

 

[DrMike]

They do angry things to critter clockwork!

Now, that is priceless! :lol: