257 Wby vs. 7 Rem Mag

[Bluejay]

OK, here it is.

I am thinking of getting a second barrel for my K95 Blaser.

At the same barrel weight and length (26") and at the same cost, which one would you choose and why ?
Application would be hunting game up to 200 lbs. max (average 80/90) and very long range (out to 500/600 yds.).

Key factors would be :

Accuracy at long range +++++
Wind drift at long range +++++
Recoil +++
Barrel wear +

I don't think bullet/ammo availability is going to be an issue, as I intend to hand load and the 100/120 grs. bullet (particularly AccuBond and BT) would suit my bill.
I have shot the 7 Rem Mag in a rifle like mine and I can tell recoil is quite heavy in such a light gun (was shooting 140 grs. BT) and I would very much like to go lighter.
For this reason alone I am leaning towards the Bee (although never shot one).
Is the .257 kicking as bad as the 7 Rem ?

Thank you for your help.

Cheers
:wink:

 

[DrMike]

Recoil is determined by three factors: weight of the rifle; weight of the projectile; and weight of the powder charge. Rifle weight is identical and powder charge is similar. Ergo, the only major differential is weight of the bullet. Therefore, recoil of a 257 Weatherby will not be as great as recoil of a 7mm RM. Felt recoil, however, differs from measured recoil, and is a factor of stock design and hold of the shooter. Not having shot a Blaser, I can't comment on felt recoil. I can tell you that some popular rifle designs can have considerable felt recoil compared to other rifles. Generally, the stock design of the Model 700 and the Model 70 (and other similar stock designs) are popular in part because they work very well in disseminating recoil across a broader area to lessen what the shooter perceives.

 

[Bluejay]

Recoil is determined by three factors: weight of the rifle; weight of the projectile; and weight of the powder charge. Rifle weight is identical and powder charge is similar. Ergo, the only major differential is weight of the bullet. Therefore, recoil of a 257 Weatherby will not be as great as recoil of a 7mm RM. Felt recoil, however, differs from measured recoil, and is a factor of stock design and hold of the shooter. Not having shot a Blaser, I can't comment on felt recoil. I can tell you that some popular rifle designs can have considerable felt recoil compared to other rifles. Generally, the stock design of the Model 700 and the Model 70 (and other similar stock designs) are popular in part because they work very well in disseminating recoil across a broader area to lessen what the shooter perceives.

Mike, the rifle I am talking about ranks probably among the lightest hunting rifles available.

The complete package (24" 6,5x57R Rifle+Mounts+Leupy VX III 3,5-10x40+Sling) weighs something like 6 pounds 13,34 Oz.
With a 26" Magnum barrel it'll weigh a little more, but still in the lightest league.

The biggest caliber I have shot so far are the 175 grs. 7x66 VHSE (Mauser 66) and the 180 grs. 300 WSM (Sako 75), although the recoil of a 140 grs. 7 mm Remington Mag in a K95 Blaser rifle was the heaviest felt.... :mrgreen:

 

[DrMike]

I agree that the rifle package is light. You can attempt to tame recoil with a muzzle brake (I hate them, but they do work), with a good recoil pad (Limb Savr and Pachmayr are two excellent pads) or with a mercury recoil suppressor. Personally, I do not find the recoil of a 7mm RM shooting 175 grain bullets over a stiff charge or either H870 or VN165 to be objectionable. However, I do spend considerable time behind some hard-kicking cartridges (375 Ruger, 338-378, 30-378, 7.82 Lazzeroni, etc.). Having said that, you will not notice the recoil in the field. It will be at the bench that recoil will give you your greatest difficulties. I would suggest that you take one of two steps to avoid developing a flinch or being otherwise adversely affected by recoil. You can shoot standing up, which will translate into less felt recoil as the body naturally yields to the force generated by recoil verses the more fixed position imposed by either sitting or lying prone. Alternatively, purchase a Lead Sled and ensure that you have some weight in the tray. If it does not affect your sight picture too much, you can always use a sissy bad between your shoulder and the butt of the rifle, which can lessen felt recoil. A PAST Magna-Shield can also help. The recoil of a 7mm RM is very similar to that generated by a 30-06 (or an 8 X 57), and only slightly more that that generated by a .308. Let us know what you decide.

 

[Guest]

If 200lbs is the limit on game weights, and the norm is going to be under 100lbs, I'd go for the 257Wby every time. It's going to have about 5-10% less recoil, so it won't be a huge reduction, but it will be a little. And the 257 is plenty of medicine for what you're describing.

Also, to add to what Dr. Mike said, the range is the only place you'll notice the recoil, for sure. I've found that a sissy bag is my friend (and I use one whenever I'm doing load workups, regardless of the rifle). I've also found that noise is your enemy with recoil. Muzzle blast noise is a huge factor in how people perceive recoil! So I always recommend doubling up on hearing protection - use some good foam earplugs (30-32db NRR) and a good set of muffs (28-30db NRR) and you'll find shooting much more comfortable. One last thing that's helped me is to take a decongestant prior to going to the range. I take a very low dose of phenylephrine (higher doses will make you "jittery" so take a kid's dose) and it opens up my sinuses. This keeps me from getting a pressure headache like I used to get when shooting big magnum rounds. The decongestant may not help everyone, as I have some sinus issues (mild, but there, never the less), but if it helps, great!

Definitely do the plugs-and-muffs solution. You'll be amazed how much it changes your perception of recoil.

 

[DrMike]

Definitely do the plugs-and-muffs solution. You'll be amazed how much it changes your perception of recoil.

Excellent point, dubyam. I always wear the best ear plugs I can obtain and a set of good muffs. It certainly cuts down on perceived recoil. The phenylephrine is something I haven't tried, but it makes good sense.

To iterate dubyam's point, I frequently use a sissy bag. When you dance a couple of hundred rounds with a gun cradle full of gourd shaking rifles, the sissy bag makes the task tolerable and avoids the dreaded flinch, to which all of us are susceptible if we don't guard ourselves.

 

[Guest]

Another plus for the sissy bag that I've discovered is, when I'm doing load work in the spring and summer, it mimics the thickness of my multi-layered hunting clothes when I'm at the range in a t-shirt.

 

[1Shot]

For 500 and 600 yard game shooting I would choose the 7 mag. Much less wind deflection and drop with bullets in the 160 gr range than the 100 to 120 of the 257 WM. If you were only going to be shooting out 300 to 400 I would pick the 257 WM but as you stretch the yardage the 7mm takes the prize.

 

[JD338]

Good points made by all. I would lean towards the 257 Wby since you mentioned recoil. A 110 gr AB or 115 gr PT will be more than enough bullet for what you are hunting.

I do agree that a 7mm 160 gr AB would be a great long range bullet with its high BC.

JD338

 

[fan300mag]

the blaser k95 are realy ligth gun, so , take the 257 wby, and NO MUZZLE BRAKE O RECOIL REDUCER.

the wby has enought to "meet whit the maiker" any deer o mule deer thats walks.

the AccuBond and Partition bullets are excelent.

on my blaser r84, cal 257 only use 100grs Partition and 100grs tsx, and i had taken coues deer at 547 metros whit one shoot. and a mouflon at 420 metros also one shoot.

By mexicanhunter at 2010-10-23

By mexicanhunter at 2010-10-23


so, the blaser is for my taste the most beutifull rifles ever made.

also i sold the 7mm rem mag , barrel and keep, the 340wby, 300wby 270wby and 257 wby barrels.

best regards

 

[SJB358]

With recoil in mind, I would also vote 257WBY! With 110gr AB's or something alot those lines I can't see it being too terrible out to 600 yards. You will have to be dialing in bullet drop anyhow, so it shouldn't be too big a deal. That WBY is a screamer. Scotty

 

[BK]

also i sold the 7mm rem mag , barrel and keep, the 340wby, 300wby 270wby and 257 wby barrels.

Holy schneikes, I can't fathom touching off a sub-7 pound .340

 

[HTDUCK]

Just curious but is a 264 Win Mag barrel an option?It would seem to fill the void between the two calibers.
If not I'd go with the 7Mag.

Howard

 

[TXbaldhunter]

The 7mag is just much more versatile.Brass is cheaper,more bullets to choose from,lot less overbore and just a better all around cartridge.You can load her with 120's or stuff it with 175's to match the bullet of choice for a wider selection of game.

 

[nodak7mm]

This can help you get a idea of how the math works on paper.. However there are many other factors the others have mentioned that come into play in the real world...

http://www.beartoothbullets.com/rescour ... recoil.htm

Rod

 

[Powerstroke]

As Dr. Mike stated, stock design has a lot to do with this as well. I personally am not a fan
of big recoil and own several rifles that I have installed brakes on. With that said, muffs are a definate MUST ! I have pretty much quit hunting with my .280 due to that. The second brake I have is a Vias, and does a much better job of keeping the blast out of the shooters face.

I have both calibers in question in my safe - I'm a big .284 bullet diameter fan, but it has been years since I have pulled the trigger on the 7mag. Both rifles are Rem 700's with only 2inches difference in barrel length between them. My perceived recoile with the 7mag is a quick sharp type crack - the .257Bee is less, but definately using a lighter bullet 115BT's

The Bee will get done what you are wanting to use it for - it wasn't my ideal choice this year, however my wife put the hurtin on a cow elk at just over 425yds this year with it. I think she has now taken posession of this rifle....... :twisted:

 

[79inpa]

I for one would take the 7mm rem mag. I would then shoot 120 grain ballistic tips at 3500 for deer and the like. Then switch to 160 grain accubonds or 150 grain scirocco's for big things or distanttttttt targets. I think that you would be surprised at how little a 120 from a 7mm rem mag will kick. Someone might say that their gun won't shooot 120 grainers well. I could see this however I know that the 140 grain ballistic tips shoot quite well and at 3300 fps with a .484 ballistic coefficient they fly just about as flat as anything other than the 220 swift, 22-250, and 257 weatherby. On a decent sized deer with the 7mm and a 140 sighted 3 inches high at 100 you can hold on the back to at least 400 yards.

that said I have killed things with the 257 weatherby and have no complaints.

 

[Guy Miner]

I've heard that 7mm Rem mag brass can be easily necked down to form .257 Wby brass. Haven't tried it yet myself, but it seems simple enough. Anyone here do that?

With the smallish size of the animals to be hunted, I'd go with the lighter-recoiling .257 Wby, but either will do the trick nicely.

Regards, Guy

 

[Guest]

I've also investigated necking down other brass into Weatherby dimensions, but what I discovered is that the 7mmRemMag is about .05" too short to form any of the 257-270-7mm 'bees. Some folks don't mind the short necks, but I'm concerned about erosion in the neck area of the chamber (due to the high volume of hot gases these rounds put out) and have avoided it up to now. What is interesting is the potential for using 300WinMag cases (about the same as 7mmRemMag in cost) to form these. The 300WinMag is spec'd at 2.610" for case trim length, so it's well beyond the 2.539" trim length for the 'bee triplets. I suspect one would at least want to run it through a 7mm die and then neck it to 270 or 257, but it's doable. Necks would likely need to be turned (but that's a one-time thing), but beyond that, I can't see why it wouldn't work, if you just want to do the work instead of spending the money.

 

[Guy Miner]

Grandpa used to have to make his .257 Wby cases from shortened, necked-down and blown-out .300 H&H brass.

There was no .257 Wby brass then. No .300 Win mag or 7mm Rem mag either. It was a bit of work to make those cases. I still have a few of his old re-formed .300 H&H cases on hand. He taught me how to reload with that operation, back in the early 1960's. He'd already been loading for that .257 since about 1947 or so.