26" barrel important?

[roysclockgun]

During a lifetime we are likely to get sold any number of items that we do not need and will not use to the full extent of their capabilities. Motorcycles with 2000cc+ engines come to mind. Or, hunting rifles with 26" barrels. Over the last 25 years, I have hung out a fair number of days at my local gun club range. I probably have listened too much to "experts", who shoot there. My original deer rifle, purchased in the 1950s, was a sporterized US Model of 1917 30-06 caliber. I had the barrel cut to 22" and killed most everything that I brought under fire with a single shot. The 22" barrel made the rifle handy to swing on deer, even in dense woods. The longest shot that I made with that rifle was 275 yds, killing a deer with a chest shot. Later, I began to believe that I needed greater muzzle velocity and to achieve that end, I would need longer barrels. I ended up with a 300RUM with 26" barrel, which I got rid of after one season. I currently use a Browning B78 7mmRemMag with 26" barrel. In over 50 years of hunting deer, I have only had to make one shot at a range just over 400 yds. I have also made perhaps half a dozen shots at over 300 yds. The vast majority of my shots have been well within 200 yds, hunting both in the great West and on the east coast of the US. I am convinced that had I kept that old sporterized Model 1917 in 30-06, I could have killed all of those deer. Certainly, there are folk who can utilized barrels of 26 inches and more, but my question is: Has the concept of long barrels and high velocity been oversold to the run-pf-the-mill hunter, such as myself? Would most of us not be better served by shorter, handier barrels on our hunting rifles?

 

[longwinters]

I think we have been drawn up in the bigger is necessary in a couple of ways. For sure, the need for longer barrels and I would have to say also the big caliber cause. For the average hunter in the lower 48 I have opinions on what a person really does need. Yet, it is great to have all of these choices isnt it. If we all shot 30-06 or, in my case, a 280 we would not be here talking about it. Nosler would make one bullet, we would all load with one powder and life would be that much more boring. I started out with the venerable Marlin 30-30, went to the 06 (had several of them) and have since sampled the 7mm, 7mm Weatherby, and 308. Now 280 and 7m-08. Even got a 243 in the rack.

Longest shot I ever took (out west) was 250yds. Longest in my home state of Michigan 150 yds. Doubt if I will ever hunt the big bears or be a good enough marksman to confidently take a 500 yd shot at a big game animal. But anything out to that 300-350 yds range I can take cleanly with nothing but a 280 with a 23" barrel.

Long

 

[rick smith]

Fast cars, faster women, long barrels and bigger calibers. We have been brought up thinking bigger is better. Most hunters would be much better off with a smaller caliber and shorter easier to handle rifles but the gun rags have them convinced to go the other way. I hunted deer for a number of years with a 7mmBR and a 308x1.5 Barnes, both have 20" barrels. Those two have taken over 100 whitetails. You would not believe the number of other hunters that have told me they are not "BIG" enough to cleanly kill a deer sized animal. My son killed a doe with the 7BR at a lasered 264yards. You do not need to carry a 26"barreled magnum to kill deer.Rick.

 

[roysclockgun]

longwinters wrote: ".....Yet, it is great to have all of these choices isnt it. .."

Well.....yeah! I agree. I believe that in part, the vast array of options regarding rifles, cartridges, optics and accoutremont, came about because subsistance hunting ended and was replaced by sport hunting. Sport hunters of today have the disposable income necessary to buy what they want, not what they NEED! Subsistance hunters used what they had available to them, for the most part, until their equipment wore out or someone died and left them something "new". Look at most areas of the world and you will see great numbers of amimals taken with whatever military surplus firearms were used by that area's armies. The Scandinavians killed everything with rifles in 6.5x55. The Brits people used .303British cartridges, etc.
Again, I am not complaining. Heck, we live in a grand time when many of us can buy what we want and not what we need and the purveyors of sporting equipment know all of that. Having only the few calibers available in a small battery that could go after any game, would as longwinters said, be boring. Same goes for longer and longer barrels. Whether we need 26"+ barrels is a moot point after we see one and want one. Nearly each hunting tirp that I have made away from my home state, has been made carrying a different rifle. Holding a dealer's FFL and being able to buy at a discount helps, because as soon as I tire of a rifle, I can at least break even selling it down the road.
These thoughts just came up, because of all the questions concerning subjects such as: "I am new to hunting. What caliber is the best for deer hunting?" The correct answer, of course, comes in many forms, sizes and barrel lengths, nearly all of which will fill the bill!

 

[remingtonman_25_06]

An old tale I always heard was tha some calibers "needed" a 26" tube for accuracy. Thats ridiculous statement. All a 26" barrel does is add a little more velocity while actually making the barrel a little "less" stiff which all in all usually means "less" accurate. Look at the BR guys, short 20" but fat barrels. Its becuase they are a lot stiffer. Anyways, with all the advents of longer range equipment, there have been a great number of hunters who are getting into the sport. Its a specialty crowd. 26" barrels do have there place. Some are better served with 28" or 30". My 300 RUM will be getting either a 28" or 30" here in the next 6 months. It's cheap velocity. Getting 3100-3150fps out of a 220g SMK, with a BC of .630 has its advantages for long range hunting. There is starting to be a lot more hunters who are taking there skills to the next level. There is nothing wrong with that, were in the year 2006 now. Not 1906.

 

[longwinters]

I have nothing against a person taking their shooting to the "next level". But in hunting I would question if its cause advances while the ability to hunt then diminishes. This should probably be a different thread but from some advertising I see where a person pushes their product by shooting an elk long range and says "we could not have gotten it if we could not shoot 500+ yards. Of course they show the perfect kill shot, but none of the bad shots that I don't doubt they have also made.

Long

 

[fredj338]

I think you get the most out of smaller bore magnums using 26"bbls. You are right though, it cracks me up that many hunters have 7STW, .300RUMs, etc. then shoot deer from a tree stand @ 100yds! A .30-30 would be just as deadly w/ less cost, weight & muzzle blast. These rounds serve a special need for long range hunting but I question their true need by the avg. hunter.

 

[roysclockgun]

I was 50 before I owned a magnum caliber rifle. Like fredj338 said, I did most all my hunting on the east coast for deer and boar and the longest shot that I made was 275 yards on a buck that I accidently scared out of a woodlot and into a corn field. I flopped down into prone, hoping that he and the two doe would stop before going over the rise and look back. They did make that mistake and the buck was head on, looking at me. Still not a difficult shot with a .270Win, from a solid prone position, resting on the turned up berm of the field. That shot was rare, as most shots were in woods at under 100 yds. In Wy, Mt, Tx and Co. one can get shots of 300-400 yards regularly. Even spotting deer/elk/pronghorn and putting on a stalk, in open country, close is not always close by eastern standards. My primary reason to encourage people to have a rifle that can make a 400 yard shot and prepare for same, is in the event of a cripple moving off and then standing, looking back from 400 yards. In that scenario, I do not want to holding a Win. M94 30-30. Certainly all honorable hunters want a clean, quick kill. That does not always occur in this imperfect world. The occasional 400 yard shot is why I like my 7mmRemMag.

 

[longwinters]

No disagreement there. The only problem in our area is that the longest shot at any rifle range is 300 yds. When I am shooting from 100 - 200 yds it is a piece of cake. But when going to 300 yds I have to be a notch better on my game. I imagine it would be even more finicky to shoot out to 400 or more.

Long

 

[roysclockgun]

I only had to make that one shot, this past Oct. on a mule deer. I stalked seven deer through the canyons in Wy, for 2 1/2 hours. Each time I was able to glass them, the smaller bucks were standing, looking at me and the three big bucks were moving out smartly. I finally peeked up over a flat rock and they were on the next ridge. The 800 yard range finder read 408 yards to the buck that I wanted. I had a very fine rest upon that flat rock and took my shot. I am thankful that at 63, I can still pull that shot but I would not want a shot that long every hunt. The stalk and entire week out there, made the trip. Pulling the shot was icing on the cake.

 

[Accubond Believer]

This year I killed antelope at 125 yards and 275 yards. My cow elk came next at 452 yards standing broadside 10 minutes before shooting light ended across an open field. (She came out of the trees and I ran out of time and cover.) Then I killed two whitetails while they were running at 60 and 160 yards. For eastern Montana the country varies a lot. The whitetails were in a stubble field I didn't see them until we jumped them at 40 yards. A double on the run shooting offhand. Dad got his buck in the same field at 325 yards - we couldn't get any closer.

Point is we all have different areas to hunt which require us to use different techniques. We all have ethics and common sense which we need to use while hunting.

 

[FOTIS]

Some calibers beg for a 26" barrel in order to performed as advertised case closed! :shock:

264 Win mag
just about all Weatherbies
Rum s

just to name a few. Why burn 100 + grains of powder and get 2960 out of a 180 gr. Buy a 24" 300 WIN and save your $$$ and shoulder.

 

[jbdre]

I don't really think "need" has much to do with anything concerning caliber or rifle selection. If need was the criteria we would nave a handful of catridges and rifle types and be done with it. Most magnums don't make sense with a short barrel but a catridge like a 30-06 performs pretty well through a wide range of barrel lengths. I shot several Whitetail this year with a .375 H&H. Why? Because I wanted to. I have also used a .458. You ought to see the faces when you show up at a deer camp with that one. Another consideration concerning barrel length is that it effects the overall handleing qualities of the rifle and shorter isn't always better in that sense.

 

[Bruce Mc]

If you think you need a 26" barrel then you do. If you don't like long barrels then don't. I agree with jbdre, this game is about getting what you want. Who cares if you "need" it. I personally like long barrels because I like getting every fps I can out of any given catridge for long shots which are common to the areas I like to hunt. But I also like short barrels for the tight cover areas I hunt where the shots won't be 100 yds. roys, if you've enjoyed the B78 in 7mm Rem Mag just keep on with it. Sounds like an outstanding rifle. But if you have nastalgic ideas about the old 1917, by all means acquire one. You can never have too many "pet" rifles.

By the way roysglock, I think the current industry hype is for short fat cases in compact short rifles, not long barrels. The long barrel hype was years ago with the ultra mags and STWs.

 

[roysclockgun]

My original post was more regarding "newbies" being sold on the idea of needing longer and longer barrels and of course, in the vast majority of hunting sutuations, a barrel 22" or shorter would do the job. Heck, I realize that people buy what they want and not what they need and God bless them. I also agree wtih Bruce Mc, concerning Short cartridges and Super Short cartridges. I wager that in a few years, most of those will be dinosaurs without support, in terms of getting cases! Yes, the ShortShort mania is another example of media hype driving the market. Before I retired, I never had to read gun-sports magazines to know what was "hot". Customers simply walked in asking for the stuff.
On the point of , "this game is about getting what you want. ", I realize the truth in that and am not kicking concerning same. But when a youngster asked me what he should buy for his first deer rifle, I will recommend older, more proven equipment, rather than what is currently the "rage".

 

[big rifle man]

RoysGlockGun, I can appreciate your comments on the Mule Deer trip this past season. I hunted Colorado third season Elk in an area just North of Yampa, Colorado. Saw Plenty of Elk (45) and a number of large Bulls just a bit too far away to shoot and with crunchy snow Stalking was very difficult. The Third day I was sitting on the side of a small canyon when I caught movement on my right. Five cows and a spike were walking towards me. I turned slightly and watched as the lead cow walked right up to me and stopped roughly twenty feet away. The other four cows and spike stopped along side of her and we had a staring contest for about three minutes. After their curiosity was satisfied the lead cow turned to her right and walked down into the canyon with the rest of the crew following her. The country and the Elk episode made my week. Wouldn't have traded it for anything. Didn't go home with an elk but after that it didn't make much difference. Certain hunts you never forget.

 

[roysclockgun]

big rifle man wrote: "... Wouldn't have traded it for anything. ..."

I know what you mean "big rifle man". What part of Florida are you in? I am in DeLand. I have a trip planned for mule deer and pronghorn in Oct. Are you going out there again?

 

[big rifle man]

Roysclockgun, I live in Sebastian (hurricane central). Belong to the Malabar Gun club. Yes, I am definitely heading back out again this fall. Same area. Really liked last years hunt and didn't hesitate when I found out the Ranch we hunted on had two openings for first season Elk. We hunted at 9200Ft. which was a little high for Mule deer. Only saw two sets of Deer tracks the whole week. Elk were literally running all over the place. We saw Elk every day. Hopefully first season will not have crunchy snow to deal with, although as I'm sure you know snow makes it a bit easier to spot Elk. I have a good friend who works at Sierra Bullets who was supposed to go with us but the National Matches are right at that time so he cancelled out.

 

[roysclockgun]

I would be into latching on to another elk hunt in 2007. My combo hunt for muley and pronghorn is Oct 1-5, in Wyoming. This past season I hunted that NE Wyoming area Oct 6-10 and had a foot of snow arriving as I drove up from Denver airport. The snow really did help, as bigger bucks moved more during the day. That incredible semi-arid area percolated the moisture very quickly and by the third day, the snow was all but gone!
In 2004, I hunted the same ranch that I had hunted in 2002, when I got my bull elk. The cabin is at 8000 ft and I hunted on horse, up to over 10,000 ft. This was the second rifle season in 2004, near Parachute CO. on the western slope. Had rain at lower elevations all week, but above 9000, it was all snow. I only saw cows and spikes that week, but I can tell you that mule deer are up there at 10,000, in the high parks. The compass and notebook were a must, as the snow made all orientation by looking around, impossible.

 

[big rifle man]

Roysclockgun, It's interesting that you found mule deer that high. When we left yampa to our hunting spot the elevation went from 7600ft to over 9000ft. On the way we saw quite a few mule deer crossing the highway (interesting when its dark and you spot them with your headlights) The area we drove through was basically plains with scattered timber. Our outfitter mentioned that we wouldn't see many mule deer where we were actually hunting. I guess the type of terrain (plains vs Black timber or aspens) has a lot to do with their habitat. Our hunting area consisted mainly of Black timber and aspen with very small fields. We also hunted the West slope. Our area was 26 Miles South and West of Steamboat Springs. By the way, my son just moved from Deland to Port Townsend, Washington last October. He lived on Kepler Drive.