30/06 plus 150g accubond plus W760/AR2209?

[Waldo]

Hi All,

I am looking at running the 150g AccuBond thru my 30/06 and have been looking at data from a couple of sources and the difference is quite amazing.

The Nosler data list a max. of 57g of W760, while the ADI (Aussie powder) list 2209 as an equivalant to W760 and list 62g as a max.

5g spread seems like a fair bit of variation, anyone out there loading the 150g AccuBond with one of the powder above?

Cheers,
Waldo

 

[DrMike]

Welcome to the forum. We're glad you are here.

The differential is not that unusual. The difference in chamber dimensions, difference in primers used, differences in temperature, etc. all can contribute to differing pressure curves. You need to work up each load in your own rifle. When I run ADI AR 2209 with a 150 grain AB on QL, the projection matches ADIs data.

Cartridge : .30-06 Spring. (SAAMI)
Bullet : .308, 150, Nosler AccuBond 56719
Useable Case Capaci: 61.286 grain H2O = 3.979 cm³
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 3.340 inch = 84.84 mm
Barrel Length : 22.0 inch = 558.8 mm
Powder : ADI AR 2209

Predicted data by increasing and decreasing the given charge,
incremented in steps of 2.0% of nominal charge.
CAUTION: Figures exceed maximum and minimum recommended loads !

Step Fill. Charge Vel. Energy Pmax Pmuz Prop.Burnt B_Time
% % Grains fps ft.lbs psi psi % ms

-20.0 88 49.60 2318 1790 29241 8012 79.3 1.385
-18.0 90 50.84 2381 1887 31304 8330 81.0 1.348
-16.0 93 52.08 2444 1989 33522 8645 82.6 1.312
-14.0 95 53.32 2508 2095 35909 8955 84.2 1.276
-12.0 97 54.56 2573 2205 38483 9259 85.7 1.236
-10.0 99 55.80 2638 2319 41259 9556 87.2 1.196
-08.0 102 57.04 2705 2437 44261 9845 88.6 1.157
-06.0 104 58.28 2772 2559 47511 10123 90.0 1.120
-04.0 106 59.52 2839 2685 51032 10390 91.3 1.083 ! Near Maximum !
-02.0 108 60.76 2907 2815 54856 10645 92.5 1.048 ! Near Maximum !
+00.0 110 62.00 2976 2949 59014 10884 93.6 1.014 ! Near Maximum !
+02.0 113 63.24 3045 3088 63551 11108 94.7 0.981 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+04.0 115 64.48 3114 3231 68505 11313 95.7 0.949 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+06.0 117 65.72 3184 3378 73934 11500 96.6 0.918 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+08.0 119 66.96 3255 3529 79896 11665 97.4 0.888 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+10.0 121 68.20 3326 3684 86467 11807 98.1 0.858 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!

Results caused by ± 10% powder lot-to-lot burning rate variation using nominal charge
Data for burning rate increased by 10% relative to nominal value:
+Ba 110 62.00 3150 3305 70705 11116 98.7 0.937 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Data for burning rate decreased by 10% relative to nominal value:
-Ba 110 62.00 2759 2535 48540 10102 84.8 1.112

Running the same data with W760 (which is not an ADI powder), the charge is somewhat less and the velocity somewhat greater, indicating that the burn rate is slower.

Cartridge : .30-06 Spring. (SAAMI)
Bullet : .308, 150, Nosler AccuBond 56719
Useable Case Capaci: 61.286 grain H2O = 3.979 cm³
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 3.340 inch = 84.84 mm
Barrel Length : 22.0 inch = 558.8 mm
Powder : Winchester 760

Predicted data by increasing and decreasing the given charge,
incremented in steps of 2.0% of nominal charge.
CAUTION: Figures exceed maximum and minimum recommended loads !

Step Fill. Charge Vel. Energy Pmax Pmuz Prop.Burnt B_Time
% % Grains fps ft.lbs psi psi % ms

-20.0 81 48.40 2371 1872 29900 8397 84.1 1.379
-18.0 83 49.61 2433 1971 31974 8698 85.6 1.343
-16.0 85 50.82 2495 2074 34197 8993 87.1 1.308
-14.0 87 52.03 2558 2179 36585 9281 88.5 1.274
-12.0 89 53.24 2621 2288 39148 9560 89.8 1.234
-10.0 91 54.45 2685 2400 41902 9830 91.1 1.195
-08.0 93 55.66 2748 2516 44867 10089 92.3 1.158
-06.0 95 56.87 2812 2634 48057 10336 93.4 1.122
-04.0 97 58.08 2876 2755 51496 10569 94.4 1.087 ! Near Maximum !
-02.0 99 59.29 2940 2879 55207 10789 95.4 1.054 ! Near Maximum !
+00.0 101 60.50 3004 3006 59217 10992 96.3 1.021 ! Near Maximum !
+02.0 103 61.71 3069 3136 63555 11179 97.1 0.990 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+04.0 105 62.92 3133 3269 68221 11348 97.8 0.960 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+06.0 107 64.13 3197 3405 73258 11498 98.4 0.930 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+08.0 109 65.34 3261 3543 78715 11627 98.9 0.902 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+10.0 111 66.55 3326 3684 84638 11735 99.3 0.875 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!

Results caused by ± 10% powder lot-to-lot burning rate variation using nominal charge
Data for burning rate increased by 10% relative to nominal value:
+Ba 101 60.50 3164 3334 71747 10972 99.7 0.943 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Data for burning rate decreased by 10% relative to nominal value:
-Ba 101 60.50 2797 2606 47734 10442 88.7 1.123

 

[JD338]

Waldo,

Welcome to the forum.
I have used W760 with the 180 gr in the 30-06 with excellent results.
I would stay with the Nosler load data and use 57.0 grs as your MAX. Start low and work up.
Let us know how your load development goes.

JD338

 

[DrMike]

Bear in mind that the Nosler data is pressure tested. Even in pressure tested data, lot-to-lot variation can change dramatically. You will note that QL allows for up to ten percent variation in burn rate. I cannot say that I have witnessed such dramatic variation, but 5% is not out of the realm of reason in my limited experience. At a charge of 60 grains, that would account for a variation of three grains, which is quite a bit. In light of this, JD338s advice is worthy of serious consideration. Sticking with known data can avoid some nasty surprises.

 

[Waldo]

Thanks for the welcome and the comments guy's, appreciate it.

I tend to run things in other calibres on the conservative side based on ADI data, so with ADI recomending with AR2209 a start load of 56 and max of 62 I will more than likely load up 5 @ 57g, 5 @ 57.5g and see if I can detect any difference in either accuracy or pressure and see where I go from there?

Cheers,
Waldo

 

[Antelope_Sniper]

ADI 2209 is not equivelent to W760. It's equivelent to H4350.

 

[Waldo]

ADI 2209 is not equivelent to W760. It's equivelent to H4350.

I have taken this straight from the ADI charts (http://www.adi-powders.com.au/handloade ... alents.asp):

AR2209 H414/ H4350 IMR4350 W760 Tu 7000 N204 AA4350 N150 / N550

To be honest not real sure how the powder equivelants work, whether they are the same powder re-badged or "equal" burn rates in theory?

Be interested to find out if someone can shed some more light on it.

Cheers,
Waldo

 

[DrMike]

Burn rates are approximate. They can vary significantly depending on projectile weight, case capacity and charge volume, among other parameters. The charts are at best approximations, except for those powders which are known to be identical (e.g. W760 and H414).

 

[Antelope_Sniper]

Waldo, W760 and H414 are the same exact powder.
H4350 is a single base stick powder, where W760 is a double base ball powder. Although they may fit in the same burn rate catagory, they are in no way the same powder, and it is in no way safe to substitue W760 data for H4350 data.

The chart also says IMR4895 and H4895 are "equivelent". Well, I can tell you this is not true. I have loads that are safe with H4895, that blow primers with IMR4895.

What is true, it that ADI makes (at least) the Hodgdons single base stick powders, so AR2213SC is the same exact powder, made in the same exact factory as H4831SC. I've shot both, and cannot tell the difference.

The ADI chart is handy for give you and idea of what powders are similar, but you need to know it's limitations when using it, otherwise you could end up doing some very dangerous.

 

[Waldo]

Thanks guy's, appreciate the info.

I'll stick with ADI data for ADI powders and all will be well.

Gotta get down to the LGS and grab those 150g accubonds, my 30/06 dies will hopefully be here this week.

Cheers,
Waldo

 

[6mm Remington]

I've had great luck in my 30-06 with IMR4350 and I know lots of folks on this site also use H4350. Either one of these might be something to consider also. Good luck!
David

 

[Antelope_Sniper]

I've had great luck in my 30-06 with IMR4350 and I know lots of folks on this site also use H4350. Either one of these might be something to consider also. Good luck!
David

IMR4350 is probably the forum favorite in the 30.06.

It's a very good place to start.

 

[Waldo]

I ended up grabbing a box of 165g accubonds today, if 150g is good 165 should be better!
My dies will be here next week so I can start developing a load while I wait for our weather to cool down so I can go hunting.
Cheers,
Waldo