300 Savage - 308 Win ???

[Richracer1]

I may have a lead on a Savage model 14 American Classic in 300 Savage for a decent price.

I have been tossing around the thought of picking up a 308 Win, but the above lead may be the ticket. I know the 308 Win may pack a little more engergy, but I already have the required items to reload the 300 Savage due to acquiring a Savage 99 in 300 Savage from my Dad. I haven't been overly keen on working ups loads for this 99 due to the history of it.

So what are your guy's thoughts on the 300 Savage cartridge for elk with a max distance of 200 yds. If I can acquire the above rifle, I'll work up a load using 150 ABs. Plus I already have some 125BT loaded for developement for the mod 99. just haven't gone out to shoot them.

 

[1Shot]

With modern powders and in a strong bolt action rifle you can about equal the 308 win with the 300 savage. I would not shoot these hotter loads in the Savage 99 though. The 125 Nosler ballistic tip at 2900 to 3000 fps which you can do with the 300 savage is a drop a deer dead in it's tracks bullet. I think I would go with a little more bullet weight for elk. 165 to 180 gr AccuBond or Partition. You should be able to do 2600+ with the 165 and 2500+ fps with the 180 with Varget powder. There have been a lot of elk killed with the old 30-40 Krag with 180's and they were moving only around 2300 fps.

 

[JD338]

I have always liked the 300 Savage although I have never owned one. The Savage 99 300 is a popular rifle here in MI for WT deer hunting.

I think the 300 Savage loaded with a 165 gr PT would get the job done on elk but, personally I would opt for more speed and bullet weight.

JD338

 

[HunterJim]

My dad shot a M20 Savage in .300 Savage, and one uncle also from his M99. I have owned both .300 Savage and .308 Win, and the Savage was the inspiration for the Army to develop the .308.

I would definitely hunt with one, we all shot the 180 gr loads.

jim

 

[Richracer1]

I also have 30 cal. 150PT, 150ET, 165AB, 168BT, 180PT, 180AB, and 180ET.

 

[Woodycreek]

I've kicked around the idea of loading for my 99 300 Savage also. Looking at the 125 BTs since you can get around 3000 fps.

 

[Richracer1]

With modern powders and in a strong bolt action rifle you can about equal the 308 win with the 300 savage. I would not shoot these hotter loads in the Savage 99 though.

This caught my eye, so I checked Hodgdon's online reloading info and found that their max loads are only generating around the low 40K in psi. This makes sense, being that most 300 Savage chambered rifles are from 1950 and earlier such as the mod 99 rotary magazine, lever action. So I would agree that a modern bolt action 300 Savage rifle could be laoded to see slightly higher pressures and thus a little bit more velocity. Of coures, this all relates to start low and work up.

 

[DrMike]

A 300 Savage would certainly generate interest for me. I've been looking at a Savage 50th Anniversary Moden chambered in 300 Savage. It is a handsome rifle, but the cartridge intrigues me. I think with judicious handloading and conscientious range limits the cartridge would work well on elk and moose, black bear and certainly on deer. This is a most fascinating suggestion, Rich.

 

[1Shot]

I have a wildcat 30X47HBR. The case is made by taking the 300 Savage case and shortening it in the body by pushing the shoulder back 10 thousands inch but leaving the case the same OAL which gives you a neck length of .030 instead of the short .020 on the 300 Savage. This is a hunter bench rest caliber that was developed in the 1970's I think to give 100% load density with IMR 4895 to drive a 168 Sierra MK 2550 fps which is supposed to be the perfect velocity for accuracy at 100 yards with that bullet I am told. It is really accurate. I can only get 42 grs IMR 4895 in the case and seat a bullet. The rifle has a 24" barrel and I still get 2850 fps with 125 BT's and with 150's I get 2650 fps. With the full 300 Savage case you can get 2 to 3 more grains of powder in it and you will be really close to 3000 fps with the 125's.
I am told by reliable people that even in the 30-30 Win in a T/C Contender with a 14" barrel the 125 BT starting out at only around 2250 fps does a great job on deer out to 200 yards.

 

[Guy Miner]

I don't know why a good .30 cal 165 grain bullet through the lungs of an elk wouldn't work... Go for it! I like your 200 yard limitation.

Guy

 

[FOTIS]

I had one (imagine that huh?) in a Savage 99. My favorite load for deer/antelope was with the 150 grain Hornady and IMR4064. 2800 fps from a 22" barrel and moa groups,

If I had to use it for elk in the timber o short range it would be the 168 tsx or my favorite for shorty 308's 165 Partition.

Limited to 58K this is what you get.

Bullet : .308, 165, Nosler PART SP 16330
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 2.600 inch or 66.04 mm
Barrel Length : 22.0 inch or 558.8 mm

Predicted Data for Indicated Charges of the Following Powders.

Matching Maximum Pressure: 58000 psi, or 399 MPa

or a maximum loading ratio or filling of 115 %

These calculations refer to your specified settings in QuickLOAD 'Cartridge Dimensions' window.
C A U T I O N : any load listed can result in a powder charge that falls below minimum suggested
loads or exceeds maximum suggested loads as presented in current handloading manuals. Understand
that all of the listed powders can be unsuitable for the given combination of cartridge, bullet
and gun. Actual load order can vary, depending upon lot-to-lot powder and component variations.
USE ONLY FOR COMPARISON !

Powder type Filling/Loading Ratio Charge Charge Vel. Prop.Burnt P max P muzz B_Time
% Grains Gramm fps % psi psi ms
--------------------------------- -----------------------------------------------------------------
Vihtavuori N550 112.5 46.7 3.03 2718 96.7 58000 8488 1.084 ! Near Maximum !
Ramshot BigGame 107.9 45.3 2.94 2706 98.1 58000 8190 1.081 ! Near Maximum !
SNPE Vectan SP 11 108.0 45.4 2.94 2704 98.1 58000 8177 1.081 ! Near Maximum !
Alliant Reloder-17 105.9 45.2 2.93 2703 97.6 58000 8283 1.076 ! Near Maximum !
Winchester 760 109.5 47.1 3.05 2701 93.6 58000 8427 1.081 ! Near Maximum !
Norma URP 115.0 46.3 3.00 2695 96.5 56639 8336 1.090 ! Near Maximum !
Bofors RP19 ~approximation 115.0 46.3 3.00 2694 96.5 56583 8332 1.091 ! Near Maximum !
Hodgdon H4350 114.6 46.4 3.00 2692 94.8 58000 8361 1.077 ! Near Maximum !
IMR 3031 105.2 40.0 2.59 2690 100.0 58000 7334 1.090 ! Near Maximum !
Hodgdon BL-C2 99.3 44.1 2.86 2689 99.1 58000 7986 1.094 ! Near Maximum !
Ramshot Hunter 115.0 48.3 3.13 2689 94.2 56966 8457 1.088 ! Near Maximum !
Winchester 748 96.8 42.3 2.74 2688 99.7 58000 7734 1.087 ! Near Maximum !
Norma 203 old 107.4 44.2 2.86 2687 99.0 58000 7979 1.101 ! Near Maximum !
IMR 4895 105.7 41.6 2.69 2686 99.4 58000 7753 1.077 ! Near Maximum !
Norma 203B 105.4 42.9 2.78 2682 98.3 58000 8003 1.096 ! Near Maximum !
Hodgdon H414 106.5 46.1 2.99 2681 93.7 58000 8292 1.092 ! Near Maximum !
Raufoss RA11 104.8 42.6 2.76 2679 97.8 58000 8012 1.097 ! Near Maximum !
Alliant Reloder-15 104.8 42.6 2.76 2679 97.8 58000 8012 1.097 ! Near Maximum !
Bofors RP11 ~approximation 104.8 42.6 2.76 2679 97.8 58000 8012 1.097 ! Near Maximum !
Rottweil R903 109.8 44.2 2.86 2679 98.8 58000 7886 1.102 ! Near Maximum !
Accurate 4064 112.9 42.9 2.78 2679 100.0 58000 7565 1.121 ! Near Maximum !
Accurate 2520 102.0 42.8 2.77 2669 99.9 58000 7541 1.105 ! Near Maximum !
Somchem S355 109.4 43.5 2.82 2667 98.6 58000 7850 1.102 ! Near Maximum !
Accurate 2495 105.2 40.4 2.62 2664 100.0 58000 7235 1.127 ! Near Maximum !
Hodgdon H380 106.0 44.0 2.85 2659 96.4 58000 7975 1.101 ! Near Maximum !
IMR 4320 106.5 42.6 2.76 2657 98.0 58000 7703 1.085 ! Near Maximum !
SNPE Vectan SP 9 101.8 42.8 2.77 2654 98.2 58000 7754 1.096 ! Near Maximum !
Hodgdon H4895 107.4 42.3 2.74 2653 99.7 58000 7438 1.088 ! Near Maximum !
PB Clermont PCL 507 98.1 41.6 2.70 2651 99.2 58000 7614 1.098 ! Near Maximum !
Somchem S321 96.3 42.1 2.73 2651 99.3 58000 7649 1.103 ! Near Maximum !
Ramshot TAC 95.4 41.6 2.69 2651 99.2 58000 7600 1.098 ! Near Maximum !
PB Clermont PCL 516 101.9 44.1 2.86 2648 96.3 58000 7850 1.095 ! Near Maximum !
Vihtavuori N540 104.2 42.8 2.77 2646 100.0 58000 7457 1.100 ! Near Maximum !
Lovex-S0621 105.8 41.9 2.71 2645 99.2 58000 7563 1.107 ! Near Maximum !
Lovex-S0701 114.1 45.9 2.97 2644 93.9 58000 7972 1.104 ! Near Maximum !
Hodgdon H335 91.8 40.7 2.64 2644 100.0 58000 7322 1.098 ! Near Maximum !
Norma 202 101.8 40.7 2.64 2643 100.0 58000 7313 1.104 ! Near Maximum !
Somchem S365 115.0 46.5 3.01 2643 98.5 50216 8294 1.139
Norma 204 113.2 47.5 3.08 2642 90.1 58000 8074 1.087 ! Near Maximum !
Vihtavuori N530 97.1 39.7 2.57 2639 99.2 58000 7500 1.100 ! Near Maximum !
SNPE Vectan SP 10 91.3 39.7 2.57 2639 100.0 58000 7278 1.103 ! Near Maximum !
Somchem S341 100.0 43.8 2.84 2638 98.1 58000 7547 1.096 ! Near Maximum !
PB Clermont PCL 508 91.3 39.7 2.58 2638 100.0 58000 7269 1.103 ! Near Maximum !
ADI AR 2219 91.4 38.4 2.49 2636 100.0 58000 7065 1.096 ! Near Maximum !
Hodgdon H322 97.2 38.4 2.49 2636 100.0 58000 7065 1.096 ! Near Maximum !
SNPE Vectan Sp 7 94.0 41.0 2.66 2635 99.6 58000 7383 1.116 ! Near Maximum !
Vihtavuori N150 114.8 44.1 2.85 2634 99.4 58000 7419 1.099 ! Near Maximum !
Hodgdon VARGET 106.8 42.0 2.72 2632 97.5 58000 7632 1.095 ! Near Maximum !
ADI AR 2208 106.4 42.0 2.72 2632 97.5 58000 7632 1.095 ! Near Maximum !
Norma 201 97.9 40.7 2.64 2631 99.2 58000 7501 1.114 ! Near Maximum !
Lovex-D0832 96.4 41.3 2.68 2631 100.0 58000 6898 1.097 ! Near Maximum !
Nitrochemie A/S 0300 88.6 37.0 2.40 2630 100.0 58000 6797 1.103 ! Near Maximum !
Vihtavuori N135 111.5 41.1 2.66 2628 100.0 58000 6846 1.105 ! Near Maximum !
Lovex-S0651 112.4 44.7 2.90 2628 95.3 58000 7770 1.107 ! Near Maximum !
Ramshot X-Terminator 89.4 39.0 2.52 2627 100.0 58000 7089 1.105 ! Near Maximum !
IMR 4064 107.7 41.4 2.68 2627 97.8 58000 7508 1.099 ! Near Maximum !
Accurate 2460 95.1 41.5 2.69 2625 99.6 58000 7301 1.118 ! Near Maximum !
Rottweil R902 104.2 40.9 2.65 2623 99.2 58000 7403 1.116 ! Near Maximum !
Vihtavuori N140 110.2 43.1 2.79 2617 99.0 58000 7310 1.100 ! Near Maximum !
Rottweil R901 100.1 38.7 2.51 2616 100.0 58000 7165 1.126 ! Near Maximum !
Accurate 2230 93.4 40.7 2.64 2612 99.6 58000 7170 1.115 ! Near Maximum !
IMR 4350 115.0 44.8 2.90 2610 92.7 52872 8048 1.125 ! Near Maximum !
Alliant Reloder-12 96.8 40.2 2.60 2606 100.0 58000 6891 1.103 ! Near Maximum !
Rottweil R907 110.4 44.1 2.85 2605 92.7 58000 7674 1.108 ! Near Maximum !
IMR 4007 SSC 106.9 44.1 2.86 2604 92.7 58000 7668 1.108 ! Near Maximum !
SF-033 fl 91.6 38.1 2.47 2602 100.0 58000 6461 1.119 ! Near Maximum !
ADI AR 2210 92.0 38.6 2.50 2597 99.6 58000 7094 1.107 ! Near Maximum !
Alliant Reloder-10x 94.5 36.3 2.35 2595 100.0 58000 6607 1.116 ! Near Maximum !
Lovex-D0733 92.5 40.1 2.60 2592 99.2 58000 7055 1.110 ! Near Maximum !
Bofors RP4 ~approximation 115.0 46.8 3.03 2590 89.1 54412 7919 1.117 ! Near Maximum !
Raufoss RA4 115.0 46.8 3.03 2590 89.1 54412 7919 1.117 ! Near Maximum !
Lovex-D0731 92.5 40.1 2.60 2589 98.9 58000 7082 1.108 ! Near Maximum !
ADI BM2 89.9 39.0 2.53 2588 99.5 58000 7029 1.108 ! Near Maximum !
Hodgdon Benchmark 97.7 39.2 2.54 2588 99.5 58000 7042 1.108 ! Near Maximum !
Accurate 2015 96.2 37.9 2.45 2586 100.0 58000 6558 1.121 ! Near Maximum !
Lovex-S0601 100.5 39.8 2.58 2585 98.2 58000 7156 1.107 ! Near Maximum !
Accurate 2200 89.2 36.8 2.39 2583 99.9 58000 6869 1.107 ! Near Maximum !
ADI AR 2206 99.8 40.1 2.60 2576 98.6 58000 7063 1.107 ! Near Maximum !
Somchem S335 101.3 40.3 2.61 2575 100.0 58000 6710 1.119 ! Near Maximum !
Bofors RP1/NP ~approximation 85.7 36.1 2.34 2574 100.0 58000 6431 1.132 ! Near Maximum !
Norma 200 85.7 36.1 2.34 2574 100.0 58000 6431 1.132 ! Near Maximum !
ADI AR 2206H 98.8 40.2 2.60 2569 98.4 58000 7016 1.107 ! Near Maximum !
Accurate 4350 115.0 44.7 2.90 2562 94.5 47040 8048 1.188
Vihtavuori N133 103.2 38.4 2.49 2560 100.0 58000 6338 1.110 ! Near Maximum !
ADI AR 2209 115.0 46.5 3.01 2560 88.0 52341 7920 1.135 ! Near Maximum !
Accurate 1680 79.3 34.7 2.25 2552 100.0 58000 6379 1.111 ! Near Maximum !
Accurate 2700 107.6 45.2 2.93 2550 92.1 58000 7157 1.117 ! Near Maximum !
IMR 4198 93.6 34.1 2.21 2549 100.0 58000 6103 1.104 ! Near Maximum !
Winchester Supreme 780 115.0 49.3 3.20 2545 88.3 54145 7628 1.125 ! Near Maximum !
Vihtavuori N130 97.1 36.9 2.39 2545 100.0 58000 6236 1.119 ! Near Maximum !
Alliant Reloder-19 115.0 46.8 3.03 2543 87.9 49832 7955 1.158
Rottweil R904 115.0 46.1 2.99 2542 87.4 53497 7545 1.132 ! Near Maximum !
Hodgdon H4198 90.4 34.5 2.24 2540 100.0 58000 6314 1.107 ! Near Maximum !
Alliant Reloder- 7 88.5 34.8 2.26 2539 100.0 58000 6169 1.123 ! Near Maximum !
ADI AR 2207 89.0 33.8 2.19 2538 100.0 58000 6053 1.122 ! Near Maximum !
Kazan Sunar 308W 92.5 36.8 2.38 2538 100.0 58000 6215 1.121 ! Near Maximum !
IMR 4831 115.0 44.8 2.90 2534 94.5 46718 7824 1.191
Accurate 5744 79.8 30.4 1.97 2532 100.0 58000 6190 1.109 ! Near Maximum !
Winchester 296 69.7 30.5 1.97 2522 100.0 58000 5981 1.131 ! Near Maximum !
Norma MRP 115.0 48.8 3.16 2521 87.4 45266 8478 1.200
Bofors RP14 ~approximation 115.0 46.8 3.03 2515 87.4 48695 7819 1.172
Somchem S385 115.0 47.3 3.06 2500 89.1 46936 7708 1.194
Hodgdon Hybrid 100V 115.0 43.7 2.83 2498 96.0 45884 7465 1.197
Vihtavuori N120 91.4 34.0 2.20 2491 100.0 58000 5634 1.129 ! Near Maximum !
Hodgdon H4227 84.7 31.5 2.04 2490 100.0 58000 5682 1.118 ! Near Maximum !
IMR 7828 SSC 115.0 48.0 3.11 2482 82.5 47951 7871 1.181
IMR 4227 84.2 31.3 2.03 2482 100.0 58000 5653 1.117 ! Near Maximum !
Nitrochemie A/S 0200 76.7 31.2 2.02 2477 100.0 58000 5601 1.131 ! Near Maximum !
Hodgdon H4831 SC 115.0 47.3 3.06 2472 83.5 49447 7440 1.171
ADI AR 2213 115.0 47.3 3.06 2458 82.2 47213 7713 1.191
Hodgdon H110 71.2 31.1 2.01 2456 100.0 58000 5558 1.142 ! Near Maximum !
Vihtavuori N560 115.0 47.8 3.10 2451 81.1 43718 7984 1.226
Lovex-S0531 85.3 31.1 2.02 2448 100.0 58000 5405 1.134 ! Near Maximum !
Bofors RP5/NP ~approximation 115.0 47.3 3.06 2445 84.4 42746 7939 1.237
Raufoss RA15 115.0 47.3 3.06 2445 84.4 42746 7939 1.237
Alliant Reloder-22 115.0 47.3 3.06 2445 84.4 42746 7939 1.237
Lovex-D0631 69.5 29.5 1.91 2444 100.0 58000 5386 1.121 ! Near Maximum !
Hodgdon Lil'Gun 69.7 29.5 1.91 2415 100.0 58000 5256 1.157 ! Near Maximum !
Accurate MAGPRO 115.0 49.7 3.22 2407 77.8 42463 7771 1.246
Somchem S265 82.7 30.9 2.00 2406 100.0 58000 5175 1.150 ! Near Maximum !
ADI AR 2205 80.0 30.9 2.00 2388 100.0 58000 5122 1.136 ! Near Maximum !
Accurate 4100 68.9 28.9 1.87 2379 100.0 58000 4955 1.147 ! Near Maximum !
Rottweil R905 115.0 46.4 3.01 2376 80.7 41660 7362 1.258
Alliant 2400 67.4 26.0 1.69 2375 100.0 58000 4953 1.145 ! Near Maximum !
Rottweil R910 72.8 27.4 1.77 2373 100.0 58000 4888 1.152 ! Near Maximum !
Vihtavuori N110 80.2 27.6 1.79 2367 100.0 58000 4901 1.155 ! Near Maximum !
Winchester WXR 115.0 46.3 3.00 2363 82.2 38887 7617 1.292
Ramshot Enforcer 66.0 27.4 1.78 2355 100.0 58000 4855 1.156 ! Near Maximum !
PB Clermont PCL 512 70.6 27.5 1.78 2355 100.0 58000 4854 1.156 ! Near Maximum !
Hodgdon H4831 115.0 45.5 2.95 2353 80.7 42612 7024 1.252
Lovex-S0401 73.1 26.5 1.72 2346 100.0 58000 4787 1.144 ! Near Maximum !
Vihtavuori N160 115.0 44.8 2.91 2338 82.8 42433 6772 1.259
Vihtavuori N165 115.0 46.3 3.00 2331 84.5 40466 6942 1.279
Accurate No.9 60.2 26.2 1.70 2318 100.0 58000 4643 1.154 ! Near Maximum !
Ramshot Magnum (Big Boy) 115.0 50.1 3.25 2316 77.2 41098 7392 1.276
SNPE Vectan SP 12 115.0 49.9 3.24 2308 77.1 40659 7360 1.282
IMR 7828 115.0 45.5 2.95 2307 77.9 38902 7190 1.300
PB Clermont PCL 517 115.0 49.9 3.24 2302 76.8 40451 7331 1.285
Alliant BLUE DOT 72.9 24.1 1.56 2289 100.0 58000 4555 1.161 ! Near Maximum !
ADI AP 2214 115.0 48.6 3.15 2284 76.4 41331 6945 1.279
Alliant Reloder-25 115.0 46.5 3.01 2280 83.2 35448 7517 1.349
Accurate No.7 54.8 24.0 1.56 2266 100.0 58000 4387 1.169 ! Near Maximum !
Norma R123 61.1 24.9 1.61 2254 100.0 58000 4406 1.203 ! Near Maximum !
Alliant POWER PISTOL 61.9 20.0 1.29 2221 100.0 58000 4312 1.172 ! Near Maximum !
Accurate 3100 115.0 44.2 2.87 2210 84.3 31645 6839 1.416
Lovex-D0051 62.4 18.8 1.22 2206 100.0 58000 4236 1.187 ! Near Maximum !
Vihtavuori 3N38 69.3 23.0 1.49 2204 100.0 58000 4042 1.181 ! Near Maximum !
Accurate No.5 47.1 21.6 1.40 2202 100.0 58000 4142 1.180 ! Near Maximum !
Somchem S221 53.6 22.8 1.48 2196 100.0 58000 4093 1.208 ! Near Maximum !
Lovex-D0361 49.2 20.7 1.34 2185 100.0 58000 4066 1.185 ! Near Maximum !
Vihtavuori N105 69.7 22.2 1.44 2180 100.0 58000 3932 1.199 ! Near Maximum !
Norma MRP 2 115.0 46.8 3.03 2161 73.4 31103 6939 1.428


Remember the 308 win as an example works at 65K.

 

[SJB358]

My Grandfather used a M99 Savage in 300 Savage for a long time. Matter of fact, it was the only rifle he owned. He used 180gr Winchester Silvertips in for everything. In his day he shot elk with it in Wyoming, bear and deer in the Adirondacks and about anything else that needed killing. I remember watching my grandfather shoot a deer a long ways away when I was young (probably 9-10 years old). He used the buckhorn sights and just drilled everything. He shot everything in the neck which was even more impressive to me, even now. The rifle went to another nephew when he passed away, and I have been looking for a 300 Savage ever since. I would have no issues putting a 150-180gr bullet into an elk at under 200 yards with it. A 150-165gr Partition worked up properly would be just as deadly as a 308. It is really a truly sought after round where I am from. Alot of men really respected the old Savage. I am surprised Savage didn't reintrouduce them, I would think they would get just as much press as a BLR and probably shoot just about as well. Good luck Rich, you have an honest to goodness legend, that you should never let out of your sight. Scotty

 

[Antelope_Sniper]

For elk, I like to see at leat 150+gr bullet at 2700+fps
I'd say you have it covered.