.308 Win and short barrel.....

[Bluejay]

Hi Folks,
do you know if there's a substantial difference in performance for a 308 Winchester caliber, between a 20" and a 24" barrel ?

I'd assume it shouldn't be too noticeable.....

I have also read on a magazine that the gap between 308 Win and 30.06 Spr. gets closer when both are fired in 20" barrel.

The reason of this question is that I was considering a new rifle (SAUER 202 Stutzen - see here : http://sauer-waffen.de/index.php?id=70&lang=en ) sporting a 20" barrel, which is offered in the following calibers :

.222 Rem.

.223 Rem.

.22-250 Rem.

.243 Win.

6,5x57

.270 Win.

7x64

.308 Win.

.30-06

8x57IS

9,3x62


Since I'd like to stay above 7 mm and wanted to stick to an american cartridge (for availability and money reasons :roll: ) the choice would come down to 308 - 30.06.

Looking at some charts, it seems that performances do not differ too much when compared in a 24" barrel and thus should get even closer by shooting a 20" barrel, in which the 30.06 is gonna loose some of its power, due to the powder unable to burn its full load before leaving the barrel.

Does my argument make sense ? :shock:

Thanks for your thoughts.

Cheers
Bluejay

 

[Savage99]

Your reasoning is correct however the differences are not that great on both velocity change from barrel length or the choice of a 308 or 30-06.

You seem to be looking for a short handy rifle and if you have handled the Stutzen that your talking about and you like it then get it.

I would go with the 308 to keep the recoil down.

I would add that I really like those Sauer 202's however here are the specs from their page and it seems that the rifle might weigh 7.3 pounds! Thats a half pound more than the old M70 Featherweight and two pounds more than a Kimber 84M!

Barrel length: 510 mm - 20”

Total length: 1025 mm - 40,3”

Weight: 3,3 kg - 7,3 lbs.

 

[Greg Nolan]

I have a 7mm-08 with a 20 in barrel and I run about 80 to 120 fps below the (factory ) loads which are useally chronigraphed out of 24" to 26 " barrels. The short, light, quick rifle is worth it. The 308 class of cartrige seem to burn it's powder quick . If you handload you can make up some of that difference in a good bolt action. If you don't handload there is high energy and light magnum ammunition that will put you faster than factory standard ammo would in a long barrel.
Good Hunting
Elkhunt :grin:

 

[Big Squeeze]

Hi Folks,
do you know if there's a substantial difference in performance for a 308 Winchester caliber, between a 20" and a 24" barrel ?

I'd assume it shouldn't be too noticeable.....

I have also read on a magazine that the gap between 308 Win and 30.06 Spr. gets closer when both are fired in 20" barrel.

The reason of this question is that I was considering a new rifle (SAUER 202 Stutzen - see here : http://sauer-waffen.de/index.php?id=70&lang=en ) sporting a 20" barrel, which is offered in the following calibers :

.222 Rem.

.223 Rem.

.22-250 Rem.

.243 Win.

6,5x57

.270 Win.

7x64

.308 Win.

.30-06

8x57IS

9,3x62


Since I'd like to stay above 7 mm and wanted to stick to an american cartridge (for availability and money reasons :roll: ) the choice would come down to 308 - 30.06.

Looking at some charts, it seems that performances do not differ too much when compared in a 24" barrel and thus should get even closer by shooting a 20" barrel, in which the 30.06 is gonna loose some of its power, due to the powder unable to burn its full load before leaving the barrel.

Does my argument make sense ? :shock:

Thanks for your thoughts.

Cheers
Bluejay

...................The answer to your question is NO!

I have considerable experience with shorter tubes, as I own a 300 WSM Ruger Frontier compact with a 16.5" barrel and the 375 Ruger Alaskan with its 20" barrel.

As my chrony results verify and given the same loads or components, you can expect a 15 to 30 fps loss in velocity, for every inch of shorter barrel length. Therefore, a 4" difference in barrel length would mean a total difference of between 60 to 120 fps, translating to NO discernable difference or any affect on the game you are hunting given the same shooting distance.

In my 300 WSM`s case, I`m losing on average about 3.5 to 4.5% in overall velocity vs a 24" 300 WSM given the same reloading components and charges.

I look at just two things! Accuracy and velocity results. I don`t care about any un-burned powder, extra noise, muzzle blast or anything else coming from the shorter barrels.

Shorter in OAL, handier, lighter, more manuverable and quicker compact rifles, are well worth it when hunting under any situation and those reasons were my top priorities over anything else. And for the same reasons, well worth it to lose a few percentage points or a small fraction in the velocity dept.

 

[Antelope_Sniper]

What BS says might be true if you only had one factory load avaliable to you. A longer barrel provides the hand loader the opportunity to maxamize performance over a greater range of powders and change weights. In most instances I find my best loads are a compressed load of a slow burning powder, which work best with a longer barrel.

 

[Big Squeeze]

What BS says might be true if you only had one factory load avaliable to you. A longer barrel provides the hand loader the opportunity to maxamize performance over a greater range of powders and change weights. In most instances I find my best loads are a compressed load of a slow burning powder, which work best with a longer barrel.

................I will kindly disagree! I handload everything. I can with my handloads, increase or decrease the performance from my shorter tubes just like the longer barrels with equal versatility..............Either way, given the SAME charges and using the different powders that I have tested in two 24" 300 WSM`s vs my 16.5" er, the percentage of velocity loss remains about the same (3.5% to 4.5%), whether the charges are increased, decreased, slower burners or faster burners are used.

In other words, regardless of the powder used (slower or faster burn rate), but given the SAME charge and same components used, per my chrony results, I always have come to within 3.5% to 4.5% of the longer 24" tube. The versatility is the same, the only thing that changes given the same charges is the small % in velocity loss.

 

[Big Squeeze]

What BS says might be true if you only had one factory load avaliable to you. A longer barrel provides the hand loader the opportunity to maxamize performance over a greater range of powders and change weights. In most instances I find my best loads are a compressed load of a slow burning powder, which work best with a longer barrel.

................I will kindly disagree! I handload everything. I can with my handloads, increase or decrease the performance from my shorter tubes just like the longer barrels with equal versatility..............Either way, given the SAME charges and using the different powders that I have tested in two 24" 300 WSM`s vs my 16.5" er, the percentage of velocity loss remains about the same (3.5% to 4.5%), whether the charges are increased, decreased, slower burners or faster burners are used.

In other words, regardless of the powder used (slower or faster burn rate), but given the SAME charge and same components used, per my chrony results, I always have come to within 3.5% to 4.5% of the longer 24" tube. The versatility is the same, the only thing that changes given the same charges is the small % in velocity loss.

.................A small correction!.... When the SAME powder, the SAME charges and same components are used, my velocity always comes to within 3.5% to 4.5% of the longer 24" tubes.

 

[Guy Miner]

We're shooting 20" barreled Rem 700 LTR's accurately at 600 yards and beyond. They don't take many more "clicks" of elevation than a 24" barrel model.

I'll have to chronograph the 20" rifle someday. Can't be too bad.

Also have a 21" .30-06 that shoots just fine, with decent muzzle velocity. Short barrels are real handy and velocity doesn't suffer much from a practical standpoint.

 

[rick smith]

The powders that give the highest velocities in long barrels will also give the highest velocities in short barrels. All the powder is burned in the first few inches of barrel. The pressure curve and the amount of time the gas has to work on the bullet makes the difference. The 06 handles the heavier 30cal bullets better. I have a number of 20" or shorter barrels in my 308s and prefer them for most of my hunting.Rick.

 

[Antelope_Sniper]

For accuracy, a short thick barrel is the best.
There's a reason so many bench rest rifles have 18-20" barrels

http://www.riflebarrels.com/articles/ba ... rifles.htm

 

[YoteSmoker]

Good points on all sides, but back to the original poster's questioning of 308 vs 30-06...they both run neck and neck by all practical means until you get into the 180 grain + size bullets. That's where the 30-06 takes over. If you're hunting elk or smaller, take your pick. If you're hunting more bear and moose, pick the 06.

 

[longwinters]

RS AND YS = +1

lONG

 

[Bluejay]

Good points on all sides, but back to the original poster's questioning of 308 vs 30-06...they both run neck and neck by all practical means until you get into the 180 grain + size bullets. That's where the 30-06 takes over. If you're hunting elk or smaller, take your pick. If you're hunting more bear and moose, pick the 06.

Actually I hunt roe deer and mountain goats (chamois) and I might have some day a chance to hunt Stag (no Bear nor Moose :shock , so the .308 is fine for me, as far as knockdown power.

Does any of you Guys have direct experience with this rifle ?


Bluejay :wink:

 

[Big Squeeze]

Good points on all sides, but back to the original poster's questioning of 308 vs 30-06...they both run neck and neck by all practical means until you get into the 180 grain + size bullets. That's where the 30-06 takes over. If you're hunting elk or smaller, take your pick. If you're hunting more bear and moose, pick the 06.

Actually I hunt roe deer and mountain goats (chamois) and I might have some day a chance to hunt Stag (no Bear nor Moose :shock , so the .308 is fine for me, as far as knockdown power.

Does any of you Guys have direct experience with this rifle ?


Bluejay :wink:

.......................If not hunting moose and big bears, then the 308 Win. is an ideal all-around choice.

Don`t worry about 4" of shorter barrel length. That is a non-issue as far as any reduced killing affect on game is concerned. Don`t listen or pay attention to those that feel it is an issue. I have and will gladly continue, to sacrifice a small amount of velocity in order to gain a better handling, an easier (all day) carrying and faster aiming compact rifle.

I personally do not prefer the looks of the international style rifle, with the longer stock fore-end out to the barrel muzzle.

Before you buy what you should do, is to find one or a similiar style and try it for handling, shouldering and balancing for general overall feel.

What may feel good for others, may not feel right for you.

 

[FOTIS]

I have a 7mm-08 with a 20 in barrel and I run about 80 to 120 fps below the (factory ) loads which are useally chronigraphed out of 24" to 26 " barrels. The short, light, quick rifle is worth it. The 308 class of cartrige seem to burn it's powder quick . If you handload you can make up some of that difference in a good bolt action. If you don't handload there is high energy and light magnum ammunition that will put you faster than factory standard ammo would in a long barrel.
Good Hunting
Elkhunt :grin:

SPOT ON!