338 WM reloading questions

[orchemo]

Couple questions for you all experience reloaders

When seating the 200 gr E-tips, some of the bullets stick inside the seating die. Is this because
a. I need to clean the die
b. too much talc inside the neck of the case
c. brass have be reloaded too many times and the neck is too expanded?
d. is my resizing dies set wrong?


I am using 74 grs of RL-19 which is the mid-range load from the Nosler guide. Seems to be a compressed load, but see people loading heavier loads.

When seating I get irregular seating depths if I just use the seating die once. I assume this is because of the compressed load? I tried holding the cases with the powder ion top of my vibrating case cleaner to settle the powder, then seating. If I run the cases into the seating die three or four times, they seem to come out with a consistent OAL. I can tell when seating, when the bullet is seated all the way.

Seems of all the cartridges I have reloaded, the 338 give me the most problems.

Thanks in advance

 

[DrMike]

Likely, the seating stem profile is gripping the bullet. Pull the stem and polish it. 74.0 grains of RL19 is a mildly compressed load for the 338WM. Measure your COAL on the ogive rather than to the tip for more precision.

 

[SJB358]

Yeah, I load 77.5 of RL19 in WW cases with the 210 PT's/76.5 200 AB's and it doesn't seem to have any issues. I do dump with a drop funnel in order to minimize the amount of compression, but 74 shouldn't be too tough at all. I would think polishing up the stem would have you in good shape Eric.

If you think your cases aren't giving you good neck tension, anneal them, or maybe just a few and see if it changes. I know I have stopped alot of issues with a quick annealing session.

 

[Kodiak]

" ... too much talc in the neck .."

Before seating any bullet, I brush-out necks to clean them of ANY left-over sizing products. I want those necks as close to factory clean inside as possible. Consistant bullet grip is desired :grin: .

 

[jmad_81]

Sounds like you ahve got some great suggestions.

For what its worth, My 338 WM liked 74.5 gr RL-19 with the 200 ET. I never put them over a chrony, but I could make hits on 12" gongs out past 400 yards off shooting sticks with it all day long. I think you'll be happy wit the 200 ET. It is a very tough bullet.

 

[FOTIS]

Like Doc said... Polish the stem. Stems have an "OEM" profile and do not accommodate all ogives.

 

[Guest]

Something I noticed when loading E-Tips for my 300Wby is that the particular lot of brass you're using, as well as the brand, generally speaking, can have a dramatic effect on internal case volume. You might try a different brand of 338WinMag brass. With my 300Wby, loading Remington brass, I had strongly compressed loads of H1000 at the start charge for the 180gr data, and the mid-charge pushed bullets out of the case after seating. With Weatherby brass, I can load these same powder charges with no compression at all. I know Weatherby brass compared to Remington is a far different issue than one batch of Rem/Win/Hornady compared to the next, but it's certainly worth consideration, I think. Especially based on my experience.

I've also found that the E-Tip takes more case than a traditional bullet (due to the longer shank of the monolithic body) so you may find a different powder will work better. A quick comparison showed RL19 to be pretty short in kernel length, so I'm not sure a different stick powder will give a better case fill with less compression. Perhaps a ball powder like MagPro or some such would work? It appears there are several options in the right range of burn rate:

Ramshot Big Game
H414/Win760
Accurate 2700
Ramshot Hunter

Ball powders generally load up far more densely than stick, so you might get a non-compressed load.

 

[Oldtrader3]

Orchemo, you might consider a different load which does not compress the powder. It sounds as though you may have a sizing die which is on the large side of the diameter spec and does not have enough neck tension. H1000 is not the best powder for 200 grain .338 WM loads. It is too slow and you will never get enough powder in to the case to get a fast load. Go to a faster powder like H4350 and your loading densities will greatly improve, as will your seating issues.

I hade a .338 Federal (RCBS) die which stuck bullets in the stem and pulled them back out of the case about half the time. I tried polishing the seater stem and just made the problem worse, so I bought a Redding seater die and have not had an issue since.

 

[DrMike]

Out of curiosity, I ran a QL comparison for some other powders. Here are the results:

Cartridge : .338 Win Mag.
Bullet : .338, 200, Nosler E-Tip 59186
Useable Case Capaci: 73.023 grain H2O = 4.741 cm³
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 3.340 inch = 84.84 mm
Barrel Length : 24.0 inch = 609.6 mm

Predicted Data for Indicated Charges of the Following Powders.
Matching Maximum Pressure: 61000 psi, or 420 MPa
or a maximum loading ratio or filling of 110 %
These calculations refer to your specified settings in QuickLOAD 'Cartridge Dimensions' window.
C A U T I O N : any load listed can result in a powder charge that falls below minimum suggested
loads or exceeds maximum suggested loads as presented in current handloading manuals. Understand
that all of the listed powders can be unsuitable for the given combination of cartridge, bullet
and gun. Actual load order can vary, depending upon lot-to-lot powder and component variations.
USE ONLY FOR COMPARISON !

3 loads produced a Loading Ratio below user-defined minimum of 90%. These powders have been skipped.
Powder type Filling/Loading Ratio Charge Charge Vel. Prop.Burnt P max P muzz B_Time
% Grains Gramm fps % psi psi ms
--------------------------------- -----------------------------------------------------------------
Alliant Reloder-17 101.2 71.5 4.63 3035 100.0 61000 9960 1.095 ! Near Maximum !
Elcho 17 101.2 71.5 4.63 3035 100.0 61000 9960 1.095 ! Near Maximum !
Somchem S365 108.8 72.9 4.72 3013 100.0 61000 9505 1.104 ! Near Maximum !
PB Clermont PCL 511 102.7 73.6 4.77 2992 98.8 61000 10111 1.105 ! Near Maximum !
Ramshot Hunter 106.1 73.7 4.78 2990 98.8 61000 10095 1.105 ! Near Maximum !
Norma MRP 110.0 77.3 5.01 2983 97.1 55773 10882 1.138 ! Near Maximum !
Winchester 760 100.1 71.3 4.62 2982 98.1 61000 10059 1.109 ! Near Maximum !
Hodgdon H414 100.1 71.3 4.62 2982 98.1 61000 10059 1.109 ! Near Maximum !
Norma URP 105.6 70.3 4.56 2976 99.7 61000 9757 1.112 ! Near Maximum !
Bofors RP19 ~approximation 105.6 70.3 4.56 2976 99.7 61000 9754 1.112 ! Near Maximum !
Vihtavuori N550 102.5 70.5 4.57 2974 99.6 61000 9874 1.117 ! Near Maximum !
Accurate 4350 105.0 70.7 4.58 2974 99.7 61000 9742 1.126 ! Near Maximum !
ADI AR 2209 109.5 73.3 4.75 2967 96.2 61000 10097 1.098 ! Near Maximum !
Alliant Reloder-19 110.0 74.0 4.80 2962 96.3 59993 10168 1.110 ! Near Maximum !
Bofors RP4 ~approximation 108.0 72.7 4.71 2949 96.2 61000 9901 1.105 ! Near Maximum !
Raufoss RA4 108.0 72.7 4.71 2949 96.2 61000 9901 1.105 ! Near Maximum !
Norma 204 104.6 72.7 4.71 2949 96.2 61000 9901 1.105 ! Near Maximum !
IMR 4895 95.0 63.9 4.14 2944 100.0 61000 9313 1.123 ! Near Maximum !
Hodgdon Hybrid 100V 108.5 70.7 4.58 2942 100.0 61000 8993 1.110 ! Near Maximum !
IMR 7828 SSC 110.0 76.1 4.93 2940 93.6 57226 10429 1.125 ! Near Maximum !
IMR 4831 110.0 70.9 4.59 2935 99.7 59357 9514 1.134 ! Near Maximum !
Bofors RP11 ~approximation 95.8 64.5 4.18 2934 99.9 61000 9274 1.123 ! Near Maximum !
Alliant Reloder-15 95.8 64.5 4.18 2934 99.9 61000 9274 1.123 ! Near Maximum !
Raufoss RA11 95.8 64.5 4.18 2934 99.9 61000 9274 1.123 ! Near Maximum !
Bofors RP4 NT ~approximation 105.6 72.1 4.67 2933 97.8 61000 9654 1.117 ! Near Maximum !
Bofors RP14 ~approximation 110.0 74.0 4.80 2933 96.0 58589 10024 1.123 ! Near Maximum !
Norma 203B 96.3 64.8 4.20 2932 100.0 61000 9205 1.124 ! Near Maximum !
Hodgdon BL-C2 90.6 66.6 4.31 2929 100.0 61000 9073 1.126 ! Near Maximum !
Norma 203 old 97.8 66.5 4.31 2927 100.0 61000 9067 1.135 ! Near Maximum !
Bofors RP3 97.8 66.5 4.31 2927 100.0 61000 9067 1.135 ! Near Maximum !
Hodgdon H380 97.1 66.8 4.33 2923 99.5 61000 9360 1.127 ! Near Maximum !
Rottweil R903 100.0 66.6 4.31 2920 100.0 61000 8991 1.135 ! Near Maximum !
Winchester Supreme 780 108.5 77.0 4.99 2920 96.1 61000 9620 1.107 ! Near Maximum !
Somchem S385 110.0 74.9 4.85 2920 97.2 59154 9761 1.135 ! Near Maximum !
Lovex S070 104.7 69.7 4.52 2919 98.2 61000 9520 1.128 ! Near Maximum !
Somchem S355 99.9 65.8 4.26 2913 100.0 61000 8993 1.131 ! Near Maximum !
Hodgdon H4350 107.4 70.7 4.58 2912 97.4 61000 9422 1.114 ! Near Maximum !
IMR 4350 105.4 70.5 4.57 2912 97.5 61000 9409 1.114 ! Near Maximum !
Rottweil R904 108.6 72.1 4.67 2909 95.0 61000 9561 1.111 ! Near Maximum !
Vihtavuori N560 110.0 75.7 4.90 2906 92.3 53232 10609 1.165 ! Near Maximum !
Elcho TR140 - preliminary data 96.6 67.2 4.35 2906 99.5 61000 9112 1.124 ! Near Maximum !
ADI AR 2213 110.0 74.9 4.85 2901 93.1 55900 10226 1.138 ! Near Maximum !
Lovex S065 103.3 68.0 4.41 2898 99.0 61000 9212 1.130 ! Near Maximum !
Hodgdon H4831 SC 110.0 74.9 4.85 2894 93.2 58641 9743 1.123 ! Near Maximum !
Accurate 2520 90.6 64.3 4.17 2894 100.0 61000 8494 1.139 ! Near Maximum !
Lovex D073.6 92.7 64.3 4.17 2894 100.0 61000 8494 1.139 ! Near Maximum !
SNPE Vectan SP 7 91.6 66.1 4.29 2893 99.4 61000 9020 1.131 ! Near Maximum !
Accurate 4064 97.6 64.2 4.16 2892 100.0 61000 8489 1.156 ! Near Maximum !
Bofors RP7 101.8 67.3 4.36 2889 97.5 61000 9279 1.126 ! Near Maximum !
Rottweil R907 101.8 67.3 4.36 2889 97.5 61000 9279 1.126 ! Near Maximum !
IMR 4007 SSC 98.6 67.3 4.36 2888 97.5 61000 9272 1.126 ! Near Maximum !
Bofors RP5/NP ~approximation 110.0 74.9 4.85 2888 94.7 52413 10365 1.175
Alliant Reloder-22 110.0 74.9 4.85 2888 94.7 52413 10365 1.175
Raufoss RA15 110.0 74.9 4.85 2888 94.7 52413 10365 1.175
Accurate MAGPRO 110.0 78.7 5.10 2874 90.0 52119 10492 1.179
Somchem S361 107.2 76.9 4.98 2871 93.9 61000 9305 1.123 ! Near Maximum !
Rottweil R902 95.6 62.0 4.02 2868 100.0 61000 8469 1.139 ! Near Maximum !
Accurate 2495 91.8 60.4 3.92 2866 100.0 61000 8156 1.163 ! Near Maximum !
Ramshot Magnum 110.0 80.6 5.23 2864 95.2 53938 9971 1.158 ! Near Maximum !
Rottweil R901 91.7 58.7 3.80 2847 100.0 61000 8136 1.148 ! Near Maximum !
Accurate 2700 98.5 69.2 4.48 2836 97.2 61000 8715 1.132 ! Near Maximum !


As suggested, there are other powders that give slightly lower fill ratio while maintaining similar velocities.

 

[jmad_81]

Interesting data Mike. I never tried RL-17 or Hunter with the 200 ET. They both have shown promise with the 225 AB though. I might have to revisit the 200 ET with those powders. My gun seemed to like the 200 ET a bit better anyways.

 

[DrMike]

I agree that RL17 and Hunter both looked quite promising.

 

[orchemo]

Well I polished the inside of the seating die and it seems to help. I also selected brass that has not been fired multiple times and did not have any problems with the bullets sticking in the die.

Was able to just run the ram up a couple times and the bullets seat to the OAL I was aiming for.

I have an 8 lb jug of Hunter. Will have to give it a try

Thanks