35 Whelen with Ramshot Big Game

[SJB358]

Very cool Gerry, that 250 Speer is an awesome bullet in my Whelen. No issues at all with accuracy and it seems to be one of those bullets that hangs together real well. It is darned near identical to the 250 PT so I can load either or with the exact same load and die settings for the same results. I shoot a bunch of the 250 PT's as I get about the same deal for them as buying Speers.

That 275 Woodleigh is pretty cool. I am looking forward to seeing what it does in the jugs. Depending on how your tests go, I might grab the 280 Swift's, just to run into jugs, so we can see some variety between us 35 cal fella's..

I couldn't imagine a better big bear/moose crusher than those 275/280's around 2400FPS. That is about all my 358 Win does with the 225 PT, and I have 0 issues with that rifle being stretched to 300 yards..

I think Elmer Keith took his largest bear with a 275 Western Tool and Copper bullet back in the 30's.. Seems like nothing is ever really new in the shooting world!

 

[JD338]

Gerry,

Looking good. The 250 gr @ 2400 fps has some horse power.
What about RL 15? I am loading 59.0 grs with a 250 gr and getting 2574 fps with sub MOA accuracy from a 22" M700 Classic.

JD338

 

[Rem Jim]

Shooting with mirrors Gerry? Pretty impressive. Isn't Big Game in the 414 or 4350 burn rate?

Big Game powder burn rate is between H380 & H414 :grin: Should be a good powder for a lot of cartridges ! :wink: RJ

 

[gerry]

Gerry,

Looking good. The 250 gr @ 2400 fps has some horse power.
What about RL 15? I am loading 59.0 grs with a 250 gr and getting 2574 fps with sub MOA accuracy from a 22" M700 Classic.

JD338

There is pretty much no powder in our town, I would try it if there was some here. Still have Varget and H 4895 to try with the heavier bullets, Nosler's data looks pretty good with the 250's. Hope to develop a few more loads in the next few weeks and then put an order I for some powder, have enough for a few more years so can be patient.

http://www.nosler.com/35-whelen

Scotty, the Woodleigh is rated for speeds between 1800-2600 fps your big Newton might be a bit much for it. I'll do my best to run some into the jugs this week.

 

[SJB358]

Scotty, the Woodleigh is rated for speeds between 1800-2600 fps your big Newton might be a bit much for it. I'll do my best to run some into the jugs this week.

I saw that, I think it would be okay though. I would barely eek out 2675 so anything more than about 50 yards would probably be fine. Who knows, I guess you'll see when your able to get them into some water.

IMR4320 is another that looks real good too..

 

[DrMike]

There is pretty much no powder in our town, I would try it if there was some here. Still have Varget and H 4895 to try with the heavier bullets, Nosler's data looks pretty good with the 250's. Hope to develop a few more loads in the next few weeks and then put an order I for some powder, have enough for a few more years so can be patient.

http://www.nosler.com/35-whelen

Scotty, the Woodleigh is rated for speeds between 1800-2600 fps your big Newton might be a bit much for it. I'll do my best to run some into the jugs this week.

Last week, I was told there had been no Alliant shipments into Canada in a year. I can believe it. I've pretty well scoured the entire nation looking for RL15 to build my inventory. I found lots of 10X and even RL25 last week, but no RL15, RL19 or RL22. Fortunately, I'm in pretty good shape on RL19 and RL22.

 

[gerry]

3 good bullets, they are quite different but all very useful in their own way. Can't imagine vey many animals where one of them wouldn't be a good choice.

200 gr AccuBond - 250 gr Speer - 275 gr Woodleigh.



Like I mentioned in another thread things are not looking good for Alliant powders this year either. Thankfully we can still get Ramshot, IMR, and Hodgdon.

 

[DrMike]

Gerry,

Hodgdon is handling Norma powders now. There is a possibility that we may begin to see some of this slipping across the border with the Hodgdon/Winchester/IMR powders.

 

[gerry]

Gerry,

Hodgdon is handling Norma powders now. There is a possibility that we may begin to see some of this slipping across the border with the Hodgdon/Winchester/IMR powders.

Now that is some very good news, would love to get some MRP again and check out a few others.

 

[DrMike]

Should it show in these parts, I will assuredly be testing several of the powders.

 

[SJB358]

Gerry,

Hodgdon is handling Norma powders now. There is a possibility that we may begin to see some of this slipping across the border with the Hodgdon/Winchester/IMR powders.

Mike, is it Hodgdon or Western Powders? I think Western Powders is the company that handle Accurate Powders like AA2520 and Magpro. The latest can of MRP I grabbed is packaged the same as my Magpro and AA2520? Just wondering if your hearing different things, or Western Powders is owned by Hodgdon.


Gerry, very cool picture. I just loaded up some 225 AB's in the 35 Newton yesterday for testing. When the time comes, I wanna grab some of those heavier bullets and give them a try.

When are you going to put that 275 into jugs? :grin:

 

[gerry]

I hope this week end Scotty........

 

[DrMike]

Western is handling Norma powders, Scotty. However, for bringing them into Canada, it is my understanding that Hodgdon is handling them. It is not easy for us up here to get just every powder. First, the company must submit samples to the appropriate Canadian agency for testing. The cost of testing is $10,000 for each powder. Then, they must state precisely which powders are going to be shipped and estimate what quantities will be entering the country. We are a relatively small population (roughly equivalent to California in population). Consequently, many companies just don't bother with the hassle; it isn't worth the effort.

 

[JD338]

Gerry,

That 275 gr Swift at 2400 fps would penetrate into tomorrow.

The 250 gr PT at 2600 fps is pretty impressive too.

JD338

 

[SJB358]

Gotcha, makes sense Mike. Didn't know how it all works, but I remember you mentioning it before, about the sample testing.

Gerry, looking forward to what the 275 does, depending on what it looks like, I will either grab a box of those, the 280 Swift's or maybe some of the 270 grain NorthForks? Those three would be pretty fun in the 35 Newton I think. They offer a 20 bullet pack, granted, they are still 40.00, but it should be enough to get a decent accuracy load and save one or two for the jugs. All three of them look pretty stout, even out of my shorter barrel. Looks like 2600 should be achievable by all of them and man, that's alot of energy... Yeah, when I get a chance I would love to see what they do in the jugs.. This could be fun!

Cartridge : .35 Newton
Bullet : .358, 275, Woodleigh PP WeldCore 53B
Useable Case Capaci: 77.811 grain H2O = 5.052 cm³
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 3.340 inch = 84.84 mm
Barrel Length : 21.0 inch = 533.4 mm
Powder : Ramshot Hunter

Predicted data by increasing and decreasing the given charge,
incremented in steps of 2.0% of nominal charge.
CAUTION: Figures exceed maximum and minimum recommended loads !

Step Fill. Charge Vel. Energy Pmax Pmuz Prop.Burnt B_Time
% % Grains fps ft.lbs psi psi % ms

-20.0 83 61.43 2106 2710 32197 9080 91.4 1.484
-18.0 85 62.97 2160 2848 34395 9366 92.6 1.443
-16.0 87 64.50 2213 2990 36747 9643 93.7 1.403
-14.0 89 66.04 2266 3136 39264 9909 94.8 1.359
-12.0 91 67.58 2320 3286 41960 10162 95.7 1.317
-10.0 93 69.11 2373 3439 44845 10402 96.6 1.277
-08.0 95 70.65 2427 3596 47948 10628 97.3 1.237
-06.0 97 72.18 2480 3755 51278 10837 98.0 1.200
-04.0 100 73.72 2533 3919 54855 11030 98.6 1.164
-02.0 102 75.25 2586 4085 58704 11205 99.1 1.129 ! Near Maximum !
+00.0 104 76.79 2639 4254 62839 11361 99.4 1.095 ! Near Maximum !
+02.0 106 78.33 2692 4426 67265 11497 99.7 1.062 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+04.0 108 79.86 2745 4600 72024 11612 99.9 1.031 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+06.0 110 81.40 2797 4778 77153 11705 100.0 1.000 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+08.0 112 82.93 2849 4957 82690 11780 100.0 0.971 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+10.0 114 84.47 2901 5139 88676 11849 100.0 0.943 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!

Results caused by ± 10% powder lot-to-lot burning rate variation using nominal charge
Data for burning rate increased by 10% relative to nominal value:
+Ba 104 76.79 2751 4622 75739 10951 100.0 1.015 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Data for burning rate decreased by 10% relative to nominal value:
-Ba 104 76.79 2480 3756 50701 11217 94.7 1.199


Cartridge : .35 Newton
Bullet : .358, 270, NorthFork BondedCore
Useable Case Capaci: 75.217 grain H2O = 4.884 cm³
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 3.340 inch = 84.84 mm
Barrel Length : 21.0 inch = 533.4 mm
Powder : Ramshot Hunter

Predicted data by increasing and decreasing the given charge,
incremented in steps of 2.0% of nominal charge.
CAUTION: Figures exceed maximum and minimum recommended loads !

Step Fill. Charge Vel. Energy Pmax Pmuz Prop.Burnt B_Time
% % Grains fps ft.lbs psi psi % ms

-20.0 84 60.00 2095 2632 31457 8722 90.2 1.487
-18.0 86 61.50 2149 2768 33606 9005 91.5 1.445
-16.0 88 63.00 2202 2908 35908 9280 92.7 1.405
-14.0 90 64.50 2256 3051 38373 9544 93.8 1.363
-12.0 92 66.00 2310 3199 41015 9798 94.8 1.321
-10.0 94 67.50 2364 3350 43849 10039 95.8 1.280
-08.0 96 69.00 2418 3504 46893 10266 96.6 1.240
-06.0 98 70.50 2472 3663 50162 10479 97.4 1.202
-04.0 101 72.00 2526 3824 53680 10676 98.0 1.166
-02.0 103 73.50 2579 3989 57469 10856 98.6 1.130 ! Near Maximum !
+00.0 105 75.00 2633 4157 61555 11018 99.1 1.096 ! Near Maximum !
+02.0 107 76.50 2687 4328 65968 11161 99.5 1.063 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+04.0 109 78.00 2740 4503 70733 11284 99.7 1.032 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+06.0 111 79.50 2794 4680 75857 11386 99.9 1.001 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+08.0 113 81.00 2847 4859 81397 11467 100.0 0.971 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+10.0 115 82.50 2900 5042 87401 11529 100.0 0.942 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!

Results caused by ± 10% powder lot-to-lot burning rate variation using nominal charge
Data for burning rate increased by 10% relative to nominal value:
+Ba 105 75.00 2751 4536 74486 10655 100.0 1.016 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Data for burning rate decreased by 10% relative to nominal value:
-Ba 105 75.00 2469 3655 49732 10798 93.7 1.201


Cartridge : .35 Newton
Bullet : .358, 280, Swift A-Frame SS
Useable Case Capaci: 76.970 grain H2O = 4.998 cm³
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 3.340 inch = 84.84 mm
Barrel Length : 21.0 inch = 533.4 mm
Powder : Ramshot Hunter

Predicted data by increasing and decreasing the given charge,
incremented in steps of 2.0% of nominal charge.
CAUTION: Figures exceed maximum and minimum recommended loads !

Step Fill. Charge Vel. Energy Pmax Pmuz Prop.Burnt B_Time
% % Grains fps ft.lbs psi psi % ms

-20.0 82 60.24 2095 2728 33479 8943 92.1 1.442
-18.0 84 61.75 2146 2863 35644 9216 93.2 1.407
-16.0 86 63.25 2197 3001 37955 9480 94.3 1.371
-14.0 88 64.76 2248 3142 40426 9735 95.2 1.350
-12.0 90 66.26 2299 3287 43069 9977 96.1 1.314
-10.0 92 67.77 2351 3435 45897 10208 96.9 1.279
-08.0 95 69.28 2402 3587 48927 10424 97.6 1.244
-06.0 97 70.78 2453 3742 52175 10627 98.2 1.209
-04.0 99 72.29 2505 3900 55660 10814 98.7 1.174 ! Near Maximum !
-02.0 101 73.79 2556 4061 59405 10984 99.2 1.139 ! Near Maximum !
+00.0 103 75.30 2607 4225 63414 11136 99.5 1.106 ! Near Maximum !
+02.0 105 76.81 2658 4391 67693 11270 99.8 1.074 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+04.0 107 78.31 2708 4560 72284 11384 99.9 1.043 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+06.0 109 79.82 2759 4732 77225 11478 100.0 1.014 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+08.0 111 81.32 2809 4906 82549 11556 100.0 0.985 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+10.0 113 82.83 2859 5082 88297 11630 100.0 0.957 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!

Results caused by ± 10% powder lot-to-lot burning rate variation using nominal charge
Data for burning rate increased by 10% relative to nominal value:
+Ba 103 75.30 2714 4580 75940 10731 100.0 1.028 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Data for burning rate decreased by 10% relative to nominal value:
-Ba 103 75.30 2454 3744 51486 11018 94.9 1.208

 

[DrMike]

Two ton of energy at the muzzle! That qualifies as a hammer, I should think.

 

[Vince]

Thanks to some quickload data from Scotty I have been doing some work the last couple of days with Big Game in the 35 Whelen.

I started with the good old 250 gr Speer and was not disappointed, it appears it will be an accurate bullet in my gun, the worst group was around 1 1/2" and most much better than that.

Working up I had this group, the Chrony was having a bit of trouble in the gloomy early morning light but this load would be in the 2400 fps range.




I worked up to 62 gr and reshot it today, speed was 2559 fps and the group wasn't too bad.



I was really curious how the 275 gr Woodleigh would work in my gun so shot a few groups today, I worked up to 60 gr Big Game and shot this group, speed was 2463 fps.




Overall the speeds were a bit erratic with Big Game but pressures were likely a bit on the low side, from what I understand Ramshot powders perform best when near maximum pressures. The Woodleigh load groups a long way away from where my main load with the 200 gr AccuBond is sighted in, the 250 gr Speer is close enough to be useful without changing anything. While the 275 gr loads weren't brutal in my 7.4 lb ready to go gun they kick noticeably harder than the 250's, the 200 gr load even less. I could certainly run those 250 gr loads for spring black bear as they are.

Was going to do a bullet test with the 275 gr Woodleigh but didn't get it done, hopefully tomorrow if we still have enough milk jugs.

Next up, Varget and after that H 4895......

Gerry,

That 59 Grain load is a shooter!
I'd load that and not look back. If I ever found a load that good I'd just stick with it and be done for that rifle. Your rifle is a great looking beauty too.

Vince

 

[gerry]

Gerry,

That 275 gr Swift at 2400 fps would penetrate into tomorrow.

The 250 gr PT at 2600 fps is pretty impressive too.

JD338

Jim, The 250 gr Partition will definitely get a look, I have high hopes for it.

Thanks Vince, I had always wanted a Rem 700 KS Mountain rifle in 35 Whelen so this one kind of copies that except it has a 1 in 12 stainless barrel and a Mcmillan Edge. I only have 14 or so left of the 250 gr Speer so can only afford one more range session and have some left for spring bear.

Scotty the 35 Newton will be a hammer and can sling those heavy slugs out at a good speed. Heard some real good things about the North Fork bullets, that 270 gr is supposed to be heavier built over the 250 gr version for those big magnum rounds and tough game.

 

[SJB358]

Without a doubt Gerry, but in all honesty, I am not sure there is an animal I will ever hunt that would need more than that 250 PT. It is a monster in my Whelen and I bet it would be a bone crusher in the Newton as well.. Plus, I have a few hundred of them on my shelf, so they will get a try soon enough..