357/44 Bain and Davis

[JLC0311]

I picked up a S&W pre-Model 28 6 inch that was reamed out to 357/44 Bain and Davis off of gunbroker while I was deployed the last time. Got all the RCBS dies and a lot of brass with it.

Anyone have any experience loading this round?

 

[SJB358]

No idea about it buddy, but I imagine there must be some data in the older manuals or maybe QL may have some as well. Good luck with it, sounds like a pretty cool pistol..

 

[DrMike]

QL lists the 357-44 Bain Davis. Undoubtedly, someone can run some numbers for you. Do you have a bullet in mind?

 

[JLC0311]

I was thinking about 145 gr Silvertips.

 

[DrMike]

Unfortunately, Winchester bullets in that weight/calibre are not provided with the latest round of QL. Let me provide you a suggestion with a Speer 146 grain JHP (4205).

Cartridge : .357-44 Bain Davis
Bullet : .357, 146, Speer JHP 4205
Useable Case Capaci: 24.741 grain H2O = 1.606 cm³
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 1.580 inch = 40.13 mm
Barrel Length : 16.0 inch = 406.4 mm
Powder : Alliant BULLSEYE

Predicted data by increasing and decreasing the given charge,
incremented in steps of 2.0% of nominal charge.
CAUTION: Figures exceed maximum and minimum recommended loads !

Step Fill. Charge Vel. Energy Pmax Pmuz Prop.Burnt B_Time
% % Grains fps ft.lbs psi psi % ms

-20.0 52 7.84 1550 779 25766 1759 100.0 1.216
-18.0 53 8.04 1572 801 26914 1796 100.0 1.193
-16.0 54 8.23 1594 824 28087 1833 100.0 1.172
-14.0 56 8.43 1615 846 29286 1869 100.0 1.152
-12.0 57 8.62 1636 868 30511 1906 100.0 1.132
-10.0 58 8.82 1657 890 31761 1942 100.0 1.114
-08.0 60 9.02 1678 913 33038 1979 100.0 1.096
-06.0 61 9.21 1698 935 34342 2015 100.0 1.079 ! Near Maximum !
-04.0 62 9.41 1719 957 35672 2051 100.0 1.062 ! Near Maximum !
-02.0 64 9.60 1738 980 37029 2087 100.0 1.047 ! Near Maximum !
+00.0 65 9.80 1758 1002 38413 2122 100.0 1.031 ! Near Maximum !
+02.0 66 10.00 1778 1025 39824 2158 100.0 1.017 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+04.0 67 10.19 1797 1047 41264 2193 100.0 1.003 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+06.0 69 10.39 1816 1070 42731 2229 100.0 0.989 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+08.0 70 10.58 1835 1092 44227 2264 100.0 0.976 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+10.0 71 10.78 1854 1115 45752 2299 100.0 0.963 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!

Results caused by ± 10% powder lot-to-lot burning rate variation using nominal charge
Data for burning rate increased by 10% relative to nominal value:
+Ba 65 9.80 1771 1016 42186 2099 100.0 1.007 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Data for burning rate decreased by 10% relative to nominal value:
-Ba 65 9.80 1741 982 34316 2155 100.0 1.065 ! Near Maximum !

Give a few more specifics (barrel length, powder you are considering, etc.).

 

[JLC0311]

6 inch barrel. I was looking at Hodgon and while the list 140s and 150s for it they don't list the 145 gr.

Looking at the starting loads for both of those for H4227 starting gr would be 20.5, and with H110 it would be a starting of 21.5.

 

[DrMike]

Cartridge : .357-44 Bain Davis
Bullet : .357, 140, Speer JHP 4203
Useable Case Capaci: 26.112 grain H2O = 1.695 cm³
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 1.580 inch = 40.13 mm
Barrel Length : 16.0 inch = 406.4 mm
Powder : Hodgdon H4227

Predicted data by increasing and decreasing the given charge,
incremented in steps of 2.0% of nominal charge.
CAUTION: Figures exceed maximum and minimum recommended loads !

Step Fill. Charge Vel. Energy Pmax Pmuz Prop.Burnt B_Time
% % Grains fps ft.lbs psi psi % ms

-20.0 85 18.80 1665 862 19621 2981 75.6 1.252
-18.0 87 19.27 1707 905 20904 3095 77.0 1.219
-16.0 90 19.74 1748 950 22275 3209 78.4 1.187
-14.0 92 20.21 1791 997 23734 3322 79.8 1.154
-12.0 94 20.68 1833 1045 25289 3433 81.1 1.121
-10.0 96 21.15 1876 1094 26949 3544 82.5 1.090
-08.0 98 21.62 1918 1144 28719 3652 83.7 1.059
-06.0 100 22.09 1962 1196 30611 3758 85.0 1.030
-04.0 102 22.56 2005 1249 32634 3863 86.2 1.002
-02.0 105 23.03 2048 1304 34799 3964 87.3 0.974 ! Near Maximum !
+00.0 107 23.50 2092 1360 37120 4063 88.4 0.948 ! Near Maximum !
+02.0 109 23.97 2135 1417 39609 4158 89.5 0.922 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+04.0 111 24.44 2179 1476 42283 4250 90.6 0.898 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+06.0 113 24.91 2223 1536 45159 4338 91.5 0.874 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+08.0 115 25.38 2267 1598 48254 4421 92.5 0.851 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+10.0 117 25.85 2311 1661 51598 4501 93.4 0.828 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!

Results caused by ± 10% powder lot-to-lot burning rate variation using nominal charge
Data for burning rate increased by 10% relative to nominal value:
+Ba 107 23.50 2219 1531 44152 4242 95.1 0.879 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Data for burning rate decreased by 10% relative to nominal value:
-Ba 107 23.50 1939 1169 30718 3719 79.1 1.035

Cartridge : .357-44 Bain Davis
Bullet : .357, 140, Speer JHP 4203
Useable Case Capaci: 26.112 grain H2O = 1.695 cm³
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 1.580 inch = 40.13 mm
Barrel Length : 16.0 inch = 406.4 mm
Powder : Hodgdon H110

Predicted data by increasing and decreasing the given charge,
incremented in steps of 2.0% of nominal charge.
CAUTION: Figures exceed maximum and minimum recommended loads !

Step Fill. Charge Vel. Energy Pmax Pmuz Prop.Burnt B_Time
% % Grains fps ft.lbs psi psi % ms

-20.0 74 19.20 1740 941 20185 3360 83.8 1.250
-18.0 76 19.68 1784 989 21552 3474 85.1 1.217
-16.0 78 20.16 1827 1038 23009 3586 86.4 1.183
-14.0 80 20.64 1871 1088 24561 3696 87.6 1.149
-12.0 82 21.12 1914 1139 26214 3803 88.8 1.115
-10.0 84 21.60 1957 1191 27975 3908 89.9 1.083
-08.0 86 22.08 2001 1244 29852 4009 91.0 1.052
-06.0 87 22.56 2044 1299 31853 4107 92.0 1.023
-04.0 89 23.04 2087 1354 33986 4202 92.9 0.994
-02.0 91 23.52 2130 1411 36262 4292 93.8 0.967 ! Near Maximum !
+00.0 93 24.00 2173 1469 38692 4378 94.7 0.941 ! Near Maximum !
+02.0 95 24.48 2216 1527 41287 4460 95.5 0.915 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+04.0 97 24.96 2259 1587 44062 4537 96.2 0.891 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+06.0 99 25.44 2302 1647 47031 4610 96.8 0.867 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+08.0 100 25.92 2345 1709 50211 4676 97.4 0.845 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+10.0 102 26.40 2387 1771 53621 4738 98.0 0.823 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!

Results caused by ± 10% powder lot-to-lot burning rate variation using nominal charge
Data for burning rate increased by 10% relative to nominal value:
+Ba 93 24.00 2292 1632 47179 4406 99.0 0.869 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Data for burning rate decreased by 10% relative to nominal value:
-Ba 93 24.00 2022 1271 30705 4151 86.9 1.037

 

[JLC0311]

That should be more than enough to get me started, Thanks

 

[DrMike]

Best of luck on your loads. Give us an update when you get a few working on target. I'm sure you'll refine matters as you acquire other components.