44 Magnum Help!

K

KinleyWater

Handloader
Jun 15, 2019
1,087
1,463
All,

I have a Marlin 1894 of likely early 2016 manufacture (I purchased it in late 2016) that I am trying to build a load for, but I am not making any sort of real headway.

Here is where I am currently at:
Pill: 240gr Nosler Sporting Handgun SJHP
Brass: Mixed, but mostly Starline
Primer: WLP (all I've got)
Powder: 15gr Blue Dot
Crimp: Medium-heavy

At ~50m, I am getting completely inconsistent results with 2-3 rounds grouping well and the next couple off the paper. Got similar results with 14gr BlueDot. At that same distance, good old Winchester WB SJSP will go into about or just a little under an inch. Shot some Fiocci 240 SJSP this evening and it didn't group quite as well as the WWB, but still adequate for my incompetence.

As someone may ask - I'd like to take the rifle out this November to poke holes in deer (hopefully). I doubt I will get a shot past 100, and if I do, I'll probably pass on it (then kick myself for not bringing the Whelen).

Thoughts?

Thanks in advance.
 
"Brass: Mixed, but mostly Starline"

Just a hunch, but are the flyers different brass from the rest?
 
Maybe the brass, being of different manufacturers, is inconsistent therefore your crimps are inconsistent.
 
Blue Dot needs a mag primer in my experience to get consistent ignition. Mixed brass could also be part of the problem.
 
I have a Marlin 1894 44 Rem Mag and shoot Nosler 240 gr JHP with a max load of H110. Accuracy is 2-3" groups at 100 yards. The Hornady 240 gr XTP shoots around 2". The Hornady is .430" vs. the Nosler which is .429". The Marlin 1894 usually shoots better with .430" bullets.

JD338
 
W296 and H110 are the same powder. I use W296 with 240gr XTP’s for surprising accuracy from my Super Blackhawk. Magnum pistol primers will make a huge difference in your consistency. I don’t have any experience with Blue Dot but I have to think magnum primers will give more consistent groups even if you have to use mixed brass for the time being. Making sure you have a stout crimp will help also. Have fun, be careful, and enjoy that fine rifle.
 
You might try removing the tube magazine to see if it's relatively loose or tighter than a tick on a hound dog. I had a Marlin 94 .44 Mag. that shot patterns. I tried removing the magazine and relieving it at the pressure points which helped some but I never could get decent groups from that rifle regardless if I ran jacketed or cast lead bullets. I finally sent it on down the road. FWIW, if I shot the rifle with the magazine remove and used it as a single shot, then it shot close to one inch to 1.5" depending on which bullet I used. My home cast bullets outshot the jacketed. he magazine was very hard to remove and replace. Just something for you to look at.
Paul B.
 
All,

Thank you for the inputs. I do not think I have any magnum primers, so I won't be able to test that at the moment. It also means W296/H110 is probably going to have to take a back seat for the moment. I do have some 300 grain XTPs and some 270 Speers that I can load, though.

Here is what I will do to diagnose:
1) Give the rifle a good, stiff cleaning to check for any leading or other fouling. I don't think I've shot any cast in it, but I may have. I know I load cast in 44 Special, so it is possible.
2) Separate and sort by headstamp and shoot for groups with each
3) Shoot some from my S&W M69 to see if the rifle is having issues with the bullet diameter
4) Load some XTPs for group.
5) Cry
6) Try the disassembly trick (Thanks PJ)

Of course, all of this could change if I get my hands on some magnum primers.

I'll keep you posted.

Thanks again all!
 
Okay, just finished with the last 30 rounds of that batch. Had:
Starline
Remington
Federal
GFC (Fiocci, I believe)

Federal seemed to group okay-ish at about 3 inches, then threw 2 consecutive rounds that opened the group to 8 inches. That describes the best performance. :x

I did hit up the Noslers with my calipers and, as pointed out, they are .429, whereas the XTPs are .430. I did discover some 200 grain XTPs :) which is always a happy thing to discover, and I think I will move out smartly with those.

*edit* I did not see any evidence of key-holing at the 50m distance.
 
Sorry about your frustrations. I was going to say to give 296 a try as it shoots very well out of my 1894 in 357 (2019 manufacture). I see that is not an option for you. I can only tell you that Bluedot, although fun is not very accurate at all in my Glock 20 10mm. The mixed brass and Bluedot could be your culprit.
 
I've used W296 in my .4 mag. but only in handguns. I did use Winchester primers and never saw the need for a magnum primer.
Paul B.
 
So -

I loaded 9 3/4 rounds with 200gr XTP over 17gr BlueDot and fired them off this evening. The group was not spectacular by any means, but 3 inches at ~50m I think will be adequate. At the very least, it's a good starting point, and playing with powder loads will probably bring that down even more. Shots were all fired either kneeling, using a railing for a rest, or standing and bracing the rifle against a post.

Again, thank you all for your input, and I am very glad I didn't have to resort to disassembly.
 
I’ve burned a ton of H110 with WLP primers. Mine say for standard or magnum loads on the box, all with mixed brass.

24.5grs with 240’s
21.5grs with 270 Speer
 
I am sorry you are having such a hard time with your Marlin. I have an stainless 1894 in .44 Mag that much more accurate than you have experienced. It is a pre Remington JM for what that is worth. Definitely a 200 yard gun with open (peep) sights. Here is the load I use:

Bullet: 300 gr BearTooth Hard Cast
Power: Ramshot Enforcer
Primer: Rem Large Pistol Magnum

The start load of 16.7 is good for 1360 fps with a nice SD of 6. The most powerful load I use is 18.5 good for 1480 with a 22 SD (not so nice). Start low and work up these loads of course.

Actually the sights are the limiting factor as that post gets big at 200 yards and beyond.

You might also try slugging your barrel to look for constrictions at the barrel band and front sight dove tail. This can be fixed. Go to Beartooth Bullets here for all things lever:http://www.beartoothbullets.com/
 
Again, thanks all. The 200 grain XTPs gave me some hope and I'll keep playing with it.
 
Those kind of groups at 50M should not occur even with inconsistent brass and crimps. Nor should primers cause that. I'd suspect the scope/mounts if I had 8 inch groups at 50M and no evidence of keyholing.
 
OP, in my .45 Colt Henry rifle, I got much better results with Accurate #9 powder than with H110. Ignites easier, burns cleaner, and still gives excellent velocity. Does not require a magnum primer, the WLP is just fine. You might want to give that a try. You can find load data at Western Powders website.
 
Okay, it's been a while, but 1) thank you to everyone who posted, and 2) I did figure out what I did wrong. Turns out that if your scope base isn't tight, the rounds tend to go various places. Yes, I am dumb :lol: . Okay, the bullet diameter had a fair amount to do with it as well, I think (saving face time).

Thanks again all.
 
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