.45/70 350 gr Hornady & Swift A-Frame

[Guy Miner]

Both were sent into the jugs at 20 yards. Swift is on the left, Hornady FNSP is on the right.

Swift A-Frame: 2046 fps, 7th jug, 345 grains, .71" expanded diameter

Hornady FNSP: 2086 fps, 6th jug, 296 grains, .846" expanded diameter

The Swift is a very expensive bonded-core bullet and performed exceptionally well. The Hornady bullet is the same as used in the original .450 Marlin factory ammo and appears to perform quite well too. I'd consider either one a very good bullet for the .45/70 Marlin lever gun.

 

[DrMike]

I really like how the A-Frame has maintained its integrity. No doubt the Hornady will kill very efficiently, but in terms of pretty, the A-Frame wins hands down.

 

[bullet]

Yes, I have to agree with Mike, the A-Frame is a nicer looking bullet, but it also has an outstanding uniform meplate which would actually create a more deadly cavitating wound and the bullet would maintain a more consistent straight line through the animal than would the Hornady.

 

[SJB358]

Here are a couple of the 350gr Hornady FP's recovered from red oak. Pretty tough stuff and they turned out pretty good. They are a little mangled cause I used my pocket knife to dig them out, but I was on a mission. The lead will come out of the jacket, but they are still pretty serious bullets.

I do have some 350gr Swifts and 350gr Northforks on my bench to try in the 45-70, but they are so darned expensive I don't wanna load them till I have a good reason!

They are the (L-R) Hornady 350, Swift 350, Nosler 300, NF 350, Speer 400 and Beartooth 425's.

 

[dannysteel]

Has anyone had any experience using the 350 grain Speer bullet? It seems I remember reading somewhere that this particular brand was a really great bullet too, and no where near as expensive.

 

[SJB358]

Danny, I hear the same. The 350 Speer is meant for the 458 Mag's so it should be excellent in the 45-70's. The Speer 300 grain bullet is excellent as well. Bonded and a massive penetrator. Plus, again, they are pretty inexpensive.

 

[Rem Jim]

Beauty expansion of that 45-70 SWIFT A-FRAME bullet ! could not ask for anything better ! Perfect ! :grin:

 

[Guy Miner]

Rem Jim - I agree - it's pretty sweet. After that test I decided the 350 gr Swift A Frame just might be my serious load for elk & moose and other large critters. Pretty impressive. Perfect mushroom.

Eventually though a buddy managed to con me into selling him my Marlin, and I found myself with a Ruger single shot instead... So, I never took any game with those Swift bullets. I'll have to ask, but I think the bucks he's taken with that rifle have all fallen to the 350 Hornady.

Regards, Guy

 

[dannysteel]

I have always been impressed with every Swift A-Frame bullet I have used, but it looks like I definitely need to give the Speer 350 grain Hot Core a try.

Speaking of Speer, I noticed in some of the material from Lee Precision that Speer doesn't recommend using thier bullets with the Lee loading dies. I've never experienced any problems with this, but they don't go on to say "why" they don't recommend it? Lee Precision also says the same warnings about using Federal Magnum primers. They say they can be more dangerous than other brands?

 

[DrMike]

Danny,

This appears to have been a case of professional jealousy. Mr. Lee held obvious animosity against anything that was generated by ATK. Hence, he found a pretext to say that Federal primers had never been tested, and they might be dangerous in his Auto-Prime. Speer bullets might be problematic. Don't let his anger deter you from using Speer and Federal components.

 

[gerry]

Hopefully someone else will remember this but IIRC Speer did not recommend crimping bullets in place that didn't have a cannelure saying it didn't help with accuracy and the folks at Lee didn't like it. At the time gunwriter Gary Sitton did some tests with crimped and uncrimped loads and found that atleast in his tests Speer was correct. Not sure why they don't recommend Federal magnum primers but I never forgot how childish it was for the folks at Lee to come out with such statements about Speer.

In Speer's FAQ area on their website they address it this way:

Q. I bought a reloading die set and there’s a note with the dies that says something like, “Speer does not recommend using their bullets with these dies.” What’s the deal?

A. Speer never made such a broad recommendation. Speer’s recommendation is: Do not apply a crimp to any bullet that does not have a crimp groove. The die company in question markets a die to produce a “factory crimp” and recommends it be used on any bullet. Speer’s tests, and those by another bullet maker and an independent gun writer, show that crimping a bullet that doesn’t have a crimp groove degrades group size by an average of 40 percent. Other than the crimp die, we have no problem with our bullets in that firm’s dies, although our preference is for RCBS® products.

We express ours thanks to the die maker for allowing us to make contact with so many new SPEER customers.

 

[Rem Jim]

Both were sent into the jugs at 20 yards. Swift is on the left, Hornady FNSP is on the right.

Swift A-Frame: 2046 fps, 7th jug, 345 grains, .71" expanded diameter

Hornady FNSP: 2086 fps, 6th jug, 296 grains, .846" expanded diameter

The Swift is a very expensive bonded-core bullet and performed exceptionally well. The Hornady bullet is the same as used in the original .450 Marlin factory ammo and appears to perform quite well too. I'd consider either one a very good bullet for the .45/70 Marlin lever gun.

Guy what load of what powder - primer - brass combo for your 45-70 with the A Frame bullet are you using if i may ask ? :?: and were they shot out of a 1895 marlin or :?:

Cheers RJ

 

[Guy Miner]

Lacking a Swift loading manual, I relied on Hodgdon for load info. Online, for the .45/70 Marlin, Hodgdon lists:

48.5 gr H4198 for 2036 fps and 32,200 CUP with a 350 gr Hornady RNSP - min load

54.0 gr H4198 for 2191 fps and 39,300 CUP with that same 350 gr Hornady RNSP - max load

Knowing that different bullets, even of the same weight, can produce different pressures, and believing that the Swift A-Frame just might produce more pressure than other bullets because of the construction and material... I called it good at 50 grains of powder, four below their listed max.

Sadly, I never used those 350 gr loads on game. A buddy of mine really wanted the rifle, and I sold it to him, then bought the .375 Number One that I've fallen hard for. Used two different Marlins over a period of nine years though, first the 18.5" ported Guide Gun, then swapped to the 22" standard 1895 which I liked much better. If I had an unlimited size gun safe and gun budget, I'd still have that big bore Marlin. It was one heck of a good rifle. My buddy really likes it and has hunted with it for several years now.

Make no mistake - these are powerful loads, but still recommended by smarter heads than mine for use in the .45/70 Marlin 1895. I was using a 22" version when I shot these tests. I'll freely admit that I was comfortable with the recoil of these loads from the relatively light Marlin with the factory recoil "pad" - but I really didn't want to pour in any more powder. Quite enough thank you.

I used CCI standard large rifle primers. Brass.... Hmmm. Going to have to check. Believe it was Winchester, but I have also used some R-P brass and a little Federal brass too with that cartridge.

Regards, Guy

 

[Rem Jim]

Thank you for the info ! :grin:

Cheers RJ :grin:

 

[FOTIS]

Beauty expansion of that 45-70 SWIFT A-FRAME bullet ! could not ask for anything better ! Perfect ! :grin:

Perfect example of "You get what you pay for!"

 

[Alaska]

The Speer 350gr acts like a bonded bullet in the 45-70 Marlin. The Hot Cor process really keeps the core intact just a tad better than the excellent 350gr Hornady RN. Highly recommend at top Vel loads in the Marlin for Heavy game.

 

[SJB358]

The Speer 350gr acts like a bonded bullet in the 45-70 Marlin. The Hot Cor process really keeps the core intact just a tad better than the excellent 350gr Hornady RN. Highly recommend at top Vel loads in the Marlin for Heavy game.

I’d like to give some a try. I’ve never found my on the darned shelves but I will grab some the next time I see em. Thanks Alaska.

 

[Charlie-NY]

Nosler just needs to produce a 400gr Partition for the 45-70. It would un-glue all the competition. :>)

I switched (for now) to a cottage industry mono-metal bullet and have been very impressed with its accuracy and terminal performance.

 

[Alaska]

Top is 350 Speer FN
Bottom is 350 Hornady RN

51.8 of RL 7
Marlin 45-70
WW brass WLR primer
2.600”

 

[Charlie-NY]

That's the first time I've seen the Hornadys end up like that. What was the impact velocity and what were they recovered from?
My understanding was that the Speers were never intended to be used at 45-70 velocities but instead were designed for higher velocity cartridges.