Accubonds lack of penetration??

[apapro]

Well Here is a pic of this years elk..... I caught him in the open Flax/red clover field first thing openeing morning........I managed to get between him and his cows and there also happened to be another bull on the other side of him (just to make things interesting)!!!!

I was shooting the 250 AccuBond (same ammo as last year 2950 fps) and when he finished bugeling and stopped broadside I "cranked" him. A slightly downhill shot and took him high through the shoulders......The bullet only broke 1 rib in and 1 rib out......and then stopped after that?????

I had to dig into the off shoulder about 2-4" to find the bullet!!!!!! I was not happy with the limited penetration of this bullet on this animal. If I had not taken out the main artery under the spine I would have lost this animal. The bullet looked text book (i dont have a pic of it right now) but I was shocked that I only got 8-10" penetration at the max!!!

Any thoughts??........and yes I know the bullet worked because I got my bull, but I am one of those guys who would rather burn up excess energy on the trees behind the elk rather than have it stay in the animal!!!

PS. I used this bullet last year on a cow elk at 245 yards and it performed flawlessly almost same shot and lots of penetration as expected, this shot was at 236 yards!!

 

[Greg Nolan]

That is a puzzle. I would have expected a complete pass thru also. Possibly a close shot would transfer more shock and limit penetration some. What was the retained weight of the bullet? Just like you I've had good penetration in past elk kills.
By the way, congratulations on a nice bull. I'm leaving Saturday for Idaho with high hopes.

 

[FOTIS]

Gongrats on your elk first off.

This is definitely a conundrum for sure. What caliber are we talking here?

 

[jason miller]

What was the range of the shot? If it was close, and that bullet expanded pretty wide, then there's more frontal area to limit penetration.

When shot into shoe boxes full of magazines at 100 yards, a 180 grain Partition from my 30-06 significantly out-penetrated a 200 grain AccuBond. The Partition doesn't have as wide of a mushroom, so it punches a deeper hole. If you're really worried about penetration, I'd try a Partition...

And since you said a 250 grain AccuBond at 2950 fps, I'm assuming this was out of a big .338? In that case, I have read(no personal experience) that the 210 grain Partition penetrates just as well as the 250 grain.

 

[Ridgerunner665]

More velocity equals faster expansion...meaning the bullet shows down faster due to increased resistance...at 400+ yards it expanded slower and used less energy in the process.

My theory anyway...

 

[apapro]

Sorry guys.....I posted this in the .338 Bullets test form then erased it and copied it here!!!

Yes the cartidge is a .338 RUM, and the 250 AccuBond, and the shot was at 236 yards measured with my Swarovski range finders.

I am just baffled at the complete opposite performance of the bullets from year to year and anmal to animal.....same bullets used from same box of accubonds!!!

I know the bull will be a bit heavier in muscle mass and density but come on not that much compared to the cow elk that I shot last year at roughly the same yardage....that bullet eneterd the left rear shoulder of the cow and raked forward to the RH front shoulder/neck area, taking out ribs and spine and passing through.

That is what I was expecting from the Acubonds!!

 

[Guest]

Two things I notice in this thread. First, though I've never killed an elk, I suspect it's farther than 8-10" from one side of the animal to outside the ribcage on the other side, by maybe double. I've shot white-tails that were more than 10" across from left shoulder to right shoulder. And they weighed something like 125-150lbs.

Second, and please don't take this wrong, I'm always amazed at people who show the picture of the downed animal, and have little to no tracking to get to it, as best I can tell, and then suggest the bullet didn't perform optimally.

If what you want is full on penetration, switch to E-Tips. I can vouch for their penetration,having sent one end to end through a white-tail, riding down the right hand side of the spine through bone nearly the entire trip. Shot entered at the base of the neck, and exited about 2" above and to the right of where the tail joins the body. The only time that bullet wasn't in the spine was the first few inches, until it reached the spinal column. Penetration for sure - 4' and then some. And that was at roughly 3300fps at impact. Slow it down, and I'm betting it would go close to end to end on an elk the same way, if not all the way through.

 

[JD338]

apapro

Welcome to the forum.

I also shoot a 338 RUM and I fully understand the power of this round. I too am surprised that this bullet did not pass through. The higher speed of a magnum can actually decrease penetration up close because of the higher impact velocity and the larger/faster mushroom of the bullet.


I tested this bullet when it first came out and penetration was 6 jugs of water, which indicates to me that it is indeed a deep penetrating bullet. Sometimes, bullets can do some strange things.
I would still have confidence in this bullet, it is a good one.

JD338

 

[Mighty Peace]

I have only recovered 1 AB bullet from a moose shot from a 300WM (180gr) about 200m. For the most part all of the game I have shot (both the factory WS AB's and reloads) and my hunting buddy with his 300WM, most have been double lung, complete pass-thru penetration with small entrance, huge exit wound with major internal damage-nothing left of the lungs.

I love this bullet and reload it also in my 270WSM in 140gr and 225gr in my 338-06AI. As mentioned, sometimes, bullets do strange things after initial impact and hitting bone.

Stick to them. I trust then. Been using then since 2004 since release in 2004 in factory ammo and reloads since 2005.

 

[apapro]

Two things I notice in this thread. First, though I've never killed an elk, I suspect it's farther than 8-10" from one side of the animal to outside the ribcage on the other side, by maybe double. I've shot white-tails that were more than 10" across from left shoulder to right shoulder. And they weighed something like 125-150lbs.

Second, and please don't take this wrong, I'm always amazed at people who show the picture of the downed animal, and have little to no tracking to get to it, as best I can tell, and then suggest the bullet didn't perform optimally.

Dubyam.....first no offence taken to my post... :grin: I have taken lots of elk and moose with lots of different callibers, countless numbers of deer (since there was no limits here a few years ago due to CWD). The 8-10" is possible when the shot is coming from an downward angle, and hitting the top of the shoulder muscle and just below the spine.....this is where the animal is the narrowest. I measured the penetration but to allow for hide and body position I gave the 8-10" measurement. I have used mostly Barnes X, Nolser and Swift A-frames. I am very familiar with bullet performance, and was expecting better than I received on this animal.

As stated before I would like to see the excess KE wasted on the trees behind the animal and not have the bullet stay in, as in this elk I shot, If I would have been 1.5" lower I would never recovered this animal. I would have missed the artery and lungs andd the elk would have been wounded. The only hole from which to bleed from was a .338 cal hole high on his RH shoulder........ie: no blood!!!

I accept that a bullet will not exit an anminal at close range shots .....thats to be expected. Ie: I shot a cow moose 4 years ago using a .338 WM with 250gr. Swift A-Frames and the shot came at 26 yards when she stopped for a look.........I recovered a 3 bullets but on the hide on the off side.....ya ya I know 3 shots at 26 yards....all in the kill zone and lots of fun, the bullets were all text book mushrooms, this I can except from a close range shot!!!

I was just baffled as to the performance of this shot and bullet performance........I guess maybe I have to get the .416 Rigby out and really get serious!!!! lol

 

[Mighty Peace]

Best thing about it all, you have a nice bull elk and some meat into the freezer.

One of the guys in our moose hunting group was shooting the WS XP3`s in 180gr from his 300WM (couldnt find any WS 180gr AB`s), recovered it from the moose (shot was about 150 metres) found in the hide on the other side after travelling thru lungs and opposite front shoulder...weighed in at 173gr. Thats 96.1% weight retention. The bullet expanded just like it says it will.

I wish we could get this bullet to reload, not that I dont like the Accubonds bc I love them and I had traded all of my TSX bullets back in 2005 for more AB`s in my reloaded calibers then (300WM and 270WSM). I swear by the AB`s over the years. It is the BULLET I recommend to friends that by factory ammo. These XP3`s are going to be right up there now. Use to love the Partition Golds prior to the Accubonds. The XP3`s remind me of the Fail Safes, just with a plastic tipped end.

Best retention on an AB was 87%, lowest was about 64% of bullets that have been recovered.

 

[OU812]

Have no idea why the bullet did not pass all the way through but ya got a nice bull all the same and you have a recovered bullet to show us picture of. :grin:


Bill

 

[Richracer1]

I used a 338RUM and 250ABs (around 2970fps) last year to take my bull moose. The shot was about 175yds and I made the ideal shot, slightly quartering away and right behind the shoulder, disintegrated his heart and lodged in the off side skin. Yeah, I was surprised the bullet didn't exit, but it did it's job perfectly a dead animal I didn't have to track. The moose went about 12 feet and fell over - of course to make it better, all this happened 110yds from camp. :grin:

The recovered bullet - no I don't remember the weight, but it was about 60-70%% retention:

You can do a search in the hunting section using my ID and you'll find the write up I did - which I do believe has the recovered bullet weight.

 

[Mighty Peace]

Sweet job Richracer1. Got to like the bull moose taken close to camp. We got one just last sunday, shortly after setting up camp, in a cutblock about 500m behind camp. 1 double lung pass-thru shot with 180gr AccuBond from a 300WM did the trick!! Of the recovered Accubonds our group has recovered over the years, they look pretty much identical to your pics.

 

[OU812]

I used a 338RUM and 250ABs (around 2970fps) last year to take my bull moose. The shot was about 175yds and I made the ideal shot, slightly quartering away and right behind the shoulder, disintegrated his heart and lodged in the off side skin. Yeah, I was surprised the bullet didn't exit, but it did it's job perfectly a dead animal I didn't have to track. The moose went about 12 feet and fell over - of course to make it better, all this happened 110yds from camp. :grin:

The recovered bullet - no I don't remember the weight, but it was about 60-70%% retention:

You can do a search in the hunting section using my ID and you'll find the write up I did - which I do believe has the recovered bullet weight.

Might have been easier to move camp 100 or so yards closer than to pack a bull like that to camp . Nice moose.

Bill

 

[Richracer1]

The shadow you see in the picture is my truck. Drug it back to camp.

 

[JD338]

The shadow you see in the picture is my truck. Drug it back to camp.

Rich,

You are living the dream buddy! Nice moose for sure.

JD338

 

[khh]

Hey apapro, I'm with you on the penetration I shoot the 225 Accubonds in a 338 Rum they defiantly hold together but they strip off there weight and don't penetrate that well especially up close. I've shot a Bear and a Whitetail with that combo I posted about it here viewtopic.php?f=5&t=17398 .
I hit the Bear twice . Once from the back as it ran off I was surprised it stayed in him it looked good but id rather have found a exit hole instead . In November I shot a buck with it , the bullet , if you look at the thread shed all its weight and didn't exit this, for me , is enough to put me off them . I was having issues with getting the nose of the Partions damaged in transit that's why I tried them . I'm in the process of burning them up then its back to Partion's or TTSX not sure yet. I'll likely use them in Canada again this year its not I dought they'll kill I just want an exit. I have a Mule deer hunt coming up in a few weeks if I happen to take that rifle I'll probable shoot them But I'm expecting a little longer shot so it should slow enough that it wont over expand. Probably taking a 25-06 with 100 gr. ttsx or a 300 rum with 168 tsx instead though. Good hunting KH

 

[Guy Miner]

Apapro, I don't know why you saw such limited penetration - sometimes the "off side" skin proves very elastic and prevents an expanded bullet from exiting.

The 260 gr AccuBond I hammered my bear with at 300+ yards with worked great. Expanded, and penetrated clean through. MV was only 2620 fps from the .375 H&H, mild load but accurate.

That's the only game I've shot with an AccuBond. Typically rely on Ballistic Tips or Partitions, both of which generally produce an exit wound. Come to think of it, I've never recovered a Partition.

Regards, Guy

 

[Oldtrader3]

Try Parttions, in 50 years of hunting, I have only recovered one Partition after shooting over 100 deer and 6 elk. This was a 130 grain, .270 Win bullet which had gone through 3-1/2 feet of Pronghorn stem to stern and the bullet had stopped next to the tail, under the skin.