An outdoor philosophy

[Osprey78]

So while nerding out tonight in my man cave listening to a fishing podcast and tying flies, the guest was talking about fly fishing in Australia.

He said that, "when you enter the water, you enter the food chain".

I thought it was a pretty interesting statement and thought it could be applied to hunting as well. As in "when you go outdoors, you enter the food chain".

Now don't take me wrong here. I am not paranoid to go outside, I just think that if more people took a step back and thought of it this way, they may respect the outdoors a little more; be it a mountain, forest, field, lake, river or stream. I don't mean anyone on this fine forum, mainly the people that we tend to comment on.

Maybe if people thought like this, they would be a little safer and/or smarter in the wild.

 

[Vince]

Osprey, I agree.
Too many, in my opinion, fail to recognize the dangers they face. Not only in the wild but in day to day life. The nightly news report is full of these folks. Heck some, while recognizing the dangers, make the news too.
I had to be airlifted out of a wilderness area this past summer due to cardiac issues. I was prepared in that I had food, water, most folks don't have enough water in the desert, and nitroglycerin tabs. Sadly that wasn't enough for me.
We should all take necessary precautions but as they say, "The best plans go awry when the enemy is made contact with." That enemy can be your own health, weather, or animal.

Vince


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[Anonymous]

I think it goes even further... I think people don't view themselves as a part of nature itself but rather as outside observers. You routinely have people refer to animals killed by hunters as "death by other than natural causes" when death by predation is likely THE main cause of death in the wild. Being killed by something that eats you is perfectly natural...and pretty much the end of everything except humans.

I think people don't view themselves as part of nature and thus don't think they're part of the food chain.

I gotta say though- listening to Mr. Griz sniffing your tent at 0'Dark hundred will get you thinking about it.

 

[truck driver]

Well Vince struck a point everybody ignores on a daily bases. Walking out the door every day of your life whether it's going hunting, fishing, taking the children to their activities or work. for what ever the reason you get behind the wheel of a motor vehicle you are facing the most dangerous predator on the face of the earth, your self! Though you may not consume human flesh you have in your hands the capability to wipe out a whole family in a split second.
For over forty years I've watched people drive a 2000lb vehicle or larger with reckless abandon with out a care in the world for their safety and of others. I have to wonder how they make it to where they are going most of the time with out killing someone or their selves.
When I first started drive trucks back in the 1970s I swore to God that I would do what ever was possible not to take a life with that truck including sacrificing my own life first.
I have purposely put a 80k truck over an embankment to keep for running over stopped cars and was charged with failure to reduce speed to avoid an accident which I beat in court.
I've been involved in several accidents caused by others recklessness and is one of the main reasons I retired, didn't loose my nerve but why put yourself in that situation if you don't have to? It was just a matter of time and the law of averages would catch up to me.
Didn't mean to get off track or steal the post I was trying to show a relation to the out of doors we love so much and the dangers of every day life.

 

[Vince]

Very well said mate.

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[Guy Miner]

I think most of us hunters have a very realistic view of nature and the food chain. And the challenges of the outdoors in general.

Don't forget though, that a lot of non-hunters are actually quite "in tune" with nature, and are often better equipped to deal with mountain weather than the average hunter.

Ooops? Struck a nerve maybe?

Take a hard look at trail runners, dedicated hikers, backpackers, mountain bikers, cross-country skiers, mountaineers, kayakers... Most of those folks are in good physical condition, and spend a LOT of time in the mountains, year round. They've got the conditioning, the lightweight weatherproof gear, and the knowledge to pursue their very physical sports, year round. Some have explored far more distant and remote places than many hunters, in adverse conditions. Some even carry firearms for protection from predatory critters and bad guys, but have no intention of ever hunting and killing an animal.

Most hunters I meet... Well, they don't get too far from the 6,000 pound pickup truck or SUV, unless they've got an ATV or a strong horse to carry them. Sure, some hunters are real go-getters, but by and large... Not so much. Just a regular joe, enjoying a day or a few days in the hills. And good for him! That's great. I'm glad he could get out of the office, off the computer and away from work for a while.

It's always easy to knock "those other guys" especially the ones wearing the bright nylon & spandex outfits, but... maybe worth taking a look at them, getting to know them, maybe even learning from them...

I don't know if this guy hunts or not, but I'll bet he's in a LOT better condition than me, can out run, out hike, and out ski me. Might even be able to out-shoot me. I'd bet on him...


Doubt if he thinks much about the food chain. If he was a predator, he's physically up to the challenge!

Regards, Guy

 

[Vince]

Good morning sir.
You touch on a multitude of salient points that many of us should ponder perhaps.

Vince

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[Osprey78]

Yes, it doesn't matter who you are, there is always room for improvement. Lots of good points coming up here guys.

 

[Guy Miner]

Osprey - My post drifted a bit.. Likely the result of feeling GREAT after my morning workout! :grin:

Sorry if it's not quite in theme with your original post...

BTW, I used to swim in the ocean a lot, off Camp Pendleton, Southern California. Like way out at sea. Way past the surfers. Just me and the waves and an occasional boat. Then I got to thinking about what else was out there, and where my place was in that food chain....

I don't swim so far out anymore... Or nearly as often, no matter how good it feels to me.

Guy

 

[truck driver]

Guy well put. I for one know that I can't run with the young dogs any more and my eyes aren't what they use to be. I use to pack a whole white tail deer out in one trip but would need help to do that today or take all day doing it. Probably the reason for the bad back I have today. But I still walk in were I don't see other hunters and worry about getting the animal out latter if I chose to harvest one.
I've also been close enough to a Female Mt lion to cause my blood to run cold with nothing more than a service revolver on my side and had to reconsider what I was doing there.

 

[Osprey78]

Osprey - My post drifted a bit.. Likely the result of feeling GREAT after my morning workout! :grin:

Sorry if it's not quite in theme with your original post...

BTW, I used to swim in the ocean a lot, off Camp Pendleton, Southern California. Like way out at sea. Way past the surfers. Just me and the waves and an occasional boat. Then I got to thinking about what else was out there, and where my place was in that food chain....

I don't swim so far out anymore... Or nearly as often, no matter how good it feels to me.

Guy

No worries, Guy. Part of my reasoning for this post is that I want to better myself this year as I am going through a tonne of crud at work and NEED to better myself...which includes getting into better shape.

I think to some degree, each one of us has taken it for granted where we go and what we may or may not encounter, and/or how we will deal with the situation should one present itself. I know I have.

 

[sask boy]

Guy, that person in the photo might be in better shape than you :wink: but I wondering if he has had to deal with the same life & death situations that you have. I put my money on you if a 600lb brown bear was racing towards us !!
I agree that the more competent outdoors men & women can deal with real life situations much better.

Blessings,
Dan

 

[lefty315]

After listening to stories of lost hikers/hunters and assisting in finding them on occasion I have a new motto. Once you leave the sidewalk....."Good luck". Most people who venture into the wilds are not idiots, they just take it for granted that they will return. I do believe that most are probably under prepared when it comes to an emergency though. We only tend to hear about the ones who had a tragedy or near tragedy occur.

As far as the food chain goes, I always try to pack a gun big enough for whatever I may encounter in the woods. I try not to confuse "big enough" with adequate though. While a .44 mag may do a bear in, not sure about Sasquatch, it probably wouldn't do a damn bit of good if it were a surprise attack at close range.

Growing up in the Midwest I didn't have to contend with large predators while in the woods. But over 20 years ago I had a little encounter with a Mountain Lion and her 3 kittens, while bow hunting in Washington. Very cool but scared the living hell outta me!! I've taken a different view of wild places since then. If I really knew the truth, about how many times a large predator watched me and I didn't see them, that would probably be a bit unnerving.

I'd like to think that using my head has been the best tool I take with me......on or off the sidewalk.

 

[Elkman]

He said that, "when you enter the water, you enter the food chain".

Not long ago I watched a documentary dealing with a single event, large number of fatalities on K-2. It reminded me of John Kracoewers ( sp), book "Into Thin Air", which delt with a the same subject matter on Everest, large fatality, single events. I have used John's book as a training tool, to show the possibilities of failure, by ignoring established policies and procedures, as well as standard protocols. In both instances, the climbers among other things, let the "goal", determine their actions, not standard protocols. It's been proven in the fire community "to many times" that ignoring the tell tale signs and protocols can and will lead to disasterous consequences. "Natural Selection, has been altered by modern medicine, but as been the the case for thousands of years, those who take unnecessary, unplanned, risks, will eventually pay the price for their actions. It may not be the fist time nor the second, but it will happen. I really liked Guy's comment regarding swimming in the Ocean. The California Coast is know to be the stomping grounds, for some "very" large, nasty fish who can eat you.
To me that would be akin to backpacking on Kodiac Island, without any defense mechanisms. Probably not the smartest thing to do. Being smart, prepared and alert are the ways to avoid these pitfalls. Along with, situational awareness 24/7, will help keep you safe and alive, in most situations.

 

[PJGunner]

Seems like more than one of us have had problems with Mountain Lions. I saw one three times. Scared it off the first two but at number three she was too close for comfort. Not 30 feet away crouched for a spring. I was glad I had my .243 with the that day while scouting for deer and hunting coyotes. IIRC, that was back in 1977/78. The cat was a female and when Nevada Fish and Game did an autopsy it was found she had an empty stomach. Seems there had been a similar incident a few weeks earlier during archery season with a bow hunter. Another young female also with an empty stomach. Deer were mighty scarce in that area that year.
I'll admit to being a lot more observant since that incident.
Paul B.

 

[Osprey78]

As far as the food chain goes, I always try to pack a gun big enough for whatever I may encounter in the woods. I try not to confuse "big enough" with adequate though. While a .44 mag may do a bear in, not sure about Sasquatch, it probably wouldn't do a damn bit of good if it were a surprise attack at close range.

I wish. Up here carrying a handgun is a no-go. I did the next best thing and got myself a Winchester Defender, 18". A mixture of slugs and 00 buck should help with anything around here.

One of the problems around here is the sound of a gun shot is a dinner bell for Grizz so they will usually come into the area. Then also being where we are we have a lot of Outdoor Grow Op's around here who tend to protect their crops.

 

[Guy Miner]

Guy, that person in the photo might be in better shape than you :wink: but I wondering if he has had to deal with the same life & death situations that you have. I put my money on you if a 600lb brown bear was racing towards us !!
I agree that the more competent outdoors men & women can deal with real life situations much better.

Blessings,
Dan

Thanks Dan.

Frankly, I hope he hasn't seen the ugliness I've seen with careers split between the military and law enforcement.

"An Outdoor Philosophy" speaks to many things.

Leave no trace. No one should know that I've been there.

Take nothing but photographs, leave nothing but footprints. I can get behind that until hunting season, then I'll take what I can manage.

Be Prepared. Old Boy Scout motto. I couldn't believe that they were routinely taking small groups of kids into bear, wolf and cougar country, without a firearm or bear spray when I started helping with the local troop many years ago. For those years that my sons and I were involved, the troop was under my protection. I heard that it was against Scout Policy to carry a firearm on a backpacking trip, even through grizzly country. Believe me, I was prepared. Mr Grizz would have lost that encounter. I'm not going to stand by and see some kid killed and eaten.

I dearly love the great outdoors, whether I'm exploring it afoot, occasionally on horseback, or often via 4x4. I've spent a lifetime in the great outdoors, and thank my father for instilling that love of it deep within me.

Hunters are generally guys and gals who enjoy the great outdoors, and treat it with respect. I'm honored to count myself among those hunters who are also conservationists, protectors of what we love.

Regards, Guy

 

[Anonymous]

I've got admit...I've blatantly ignored that policy on a number of occasions!

 

[SJB358]

I agree with all things spoken here. Being ready to be outdoors is alot of mindset as well. Having the best gear and conditioning is all good stuff, but being ready for adversity and a little suffering go a long way as well. I have spent alot of time outdoors here in the states and other places, but to some extent, I leave both kinds of places with the mindset of checking my gear and equipment before I leave camp. Being able to improvise for a forgotten or broken piece of kit is a valuable skill.

The main thing I always think about is what is in my pack and what would I do in a "what if" sorta situation. Not the crazy what if's, but the normal ones, broken leg, having to stay out overnight, forgot a saw.. Things like that.

Our pack we wear out in the wilderness is our "go bag". It needs to have enough in it to survive with. Survival is the key. We can live a long time without chow, water, not so much. Heat and shelter are huge huge as well.

Great topic though. Really enjoying all of the stuff mentioned.

 

[pre6422hornet]

I really had a "come to Jesus" meeting with myself just this past Sunday.

I took the two oldest girls ( 7 and 5 ) east of ABQ and we headed up into the mountains to go sledding. I made sure the girls were dressed warm, had their boots, etc...

I grabbed the Glock 30, backpack ( full of all the stuff I carry every time out), binos, sled, and fired up the truck. As I had suspected from the start.... there wasn't much snow on the mountain as it had been pretty warm lately. After telling the girls the bad news, we decided to take the opportunity to go on an adventure.

We found a parking spot and found a trail going up the side of the mountain. It was a pretty steep incline and the girls were ahead of me scouting for " deer, bears and lions" ( their words exactly). As we trudged along, the girls did great and all the tracks we saw in the snow were "Lions" ( dogs actually). The trail switched back across the side of the mountain and there were a few times the trail was only 12 inches or so wide and all I could think about was the safety of my girls.

My mind started racing.

" what if one of them fell down the mountain"
"what if I fell and broke my leg"
"what if a mountain lion jumped on them" ( highly unlikely but in my mind)
"what if one of them got hurt"
"How would I get them out of the gorge"

I have never hunted with anyone per se. I am a solo hunter and never really thought about stuff like this.

Crazy what rolls through the head when you have two little lives completely in your hands to get down off the mountain. I did teach them how to use the brush around them to grab ahold and steady themselves. They both did great and both said they can't wait to go back.