annealing ?

[wisconsinteacher]

I plan on trying it this weekend. I have a propane torch and a drill. My two questions, do you put the flame where the neck and shoulder meet and my brass is sized and ready to go so is now the time to do it or do I do it before I size?

 

[RiverRider]

If you've already sized the brass, then you're good to go. I've been using a propane torch myself with the Hornady kit, but I think using a deep socket with an electric drill should be just as effective. The Hornady kit furnishes a bottle of Tempilaq which is useful, but I have found it necessary to use only for the first few cases to get a feel for how long to apply the flame (usually about nine or ten seconds). Apply the flame to the neck where it meets the shoulder. Drop the cases into a bucket of water immediately to arrest the conduction of heat to the cases head---you don't want the case heads to be softened at all.

 

[onesonek]

Yep,, anneal when needed before sizing. otherwise your neck tension will change too much on you. Depending on the case length, I just hold by hand and sipn in torch.. If it gets hot that you cant hold on for the time required, you're likely too hot on the neck and shoulder. You don't want much heat tranfer below the top 1/3 of the case. It will weaken the head. I can hand hold down to a .223 case length and still get the desire heat or color an 1/8" below the shoulder datum.
Shorter cases, I need drill, or heat resistant glove.

 

[SJB358]

I use the same stuff WT to anneal. I do not drop into water any longer though.

 

[wisconsinteacher]

Not trying to start something but one guy says you can do it after sizing and another says before sizing. What is right? My brass is sized and the last time it was shot, I had a few split necks. Do I anneal then resize again to get the neck tension back to the right spot or just anneal and reload?

 

[onesonek]

size after annealing, split show over life or could have annealed 1-2 firings sooner, its just a guess on how often as brass makes are different on when and the learning curve. But you get the timing feel down after awhile

 

[wisconsinteacher]

Okay, I think I will anneal a few and then just resize them. That is not that big of a deal. It is -10 with the wind so it is not like I am going shooting any time soon.

 

[onesonek]

I know the feeling of that temp.. It may save further split annealing and sizing again

 

[RiverRider]

Not trying to start something but one guy says you can do it after sizing and another says before sizing. What is right? My brass is sized and the last time it was shot, I had a few split necks. Do I anneal then resize again to get the neck tension back to the right spot or just anneal and reload?

In this case, I'd anneal first because the necks have obviously work hardened and are beginning to split.

If I was going to neck up brand new brass, I'd do that first then anneal. If I was going to neck up brass that had been fired an indeterminate number of times I'd probably anneal first to avoid splits.

I think it just depends on the situation, and there's no real definite right or wrong answer IMO.

 

[257 Ackley]

Not trying to start something but one guy says you can do it after sizing and another says before sizing. What is right? My brass is sized and the last time it was shot, I had a few split necks. Do I anneal then resize again to get the neck tension back to the right spot or just anneal and reload?

The benchrest guys all say to anneal before you resize. As anal as those guys are with their brass, I would go that route. I anneal before I resize after every third firing on the brass used for competition. The normal hunting stuff will get annealed more often now that I have a machine.

 

[wisconsinteacher]

Can you over anneal? I am not saying I will do it every time I shoot the brass but what would happen if you messed up and had a few pieces that got annealed after only one or two shootings? I am looking forward to trying it and then resizing the brass. I hope i feel a difference.

 

[257 Ackley]

Yes you can over anneal. There is a product called Tempilaq that comes in various temperature ranges that you paint on the inside of the neck of the cartridge. Buy a jar of 650 and 750. Paint the 750 on the inside of the neck and the 650 starting half way down the body on the outside of the case. There are youtube videos that will show you how it is used. The colored paint will turn clear once it reaches the temperature that you are looking for.

700-750 degrees is what most case necks need the temp to get to for annealing. The reason to use the lower temp paint is to ensure you are not getting the lower half of the case over 650 degrees, which will ruin it. Practice with a few cases in the caliber you are annealing for, using the Tempilaq with a case rotating in a drill. Count how long you spin the case in the flame to get the Tempilaq to change to clear. Once you figure how many seconds you need to hold each case in the flame, you won't need to continue using the Tempilaq on each case.

You can find Tempilaq at welding supply stores or order it on-line from suppliers.

 

[atmoshpere]

Can you over anneal? I am not saying I will do it every time I shoot the brass but what would happen if you messed up and had a few pieces that got annealed after only one or two shootings? I am looking forward to trying it and then resizing the brass. I hope i feel a difference.

257 Ackley may have completely answered your question, but I took your meaning to be can you anneal too frequently. I too would be curious about that if anyone here knows the answer. As 257 Ackley indicated, it is possible to over-anneal on a single operation, but if you follow a correct procedure each time would it do any harm to anneal after every firing? It obviously might not provide any advantage vs every 3-4 firings but would it cause any harm? My guess would be no, assuming that you didn't over heat the cases, but that is an assumption :mrgreen:

 

[257 Ackley]

Some of the guys I shoot F-class with anneal after every firing, but I haven't seen a need to do that. With good Lapua brass, every three firings seems to work for me. I have some Lapua 6BR brass that has been fired about 25 times without losing any to split necks.

 

[RiverRider]

Something I read (and I usually flush anything that does not seem credible) somewhere suggested that it is possible to soften case necks to excess, and that if you do so you might seen things like necks buckling when the attempt to seat a bullet is made. I've never had it happen, and suspect that you'd have to really screw up to make this happen. Using Tempilaq a few times is probably a very good idea, just to be sure.

 

[257 Ackley]

Most of the companies that make annealing machines recommend using Tempilaq (750 inside the neck) to ensure you are not "over-cooking' the brass. There can be pressure problems if it get too soft. I have an annealer from Giraud that I am planning on posting a short video on Nosler to show how it works for me.

 

[FOTIS]

You tube has many instructional videos on this.

 

[FOTIS]

http://youtu.be/6iWlqJshzy0

 

[onesonek]

Most of the companies that make annealing machines recommend using Tempilaq (750 inside the neck) to ensure you are not "over-cooking' the brass. There can be pressure problems if it get too soft. I have an annealer from Giraud that I am planning on posting a short video on Nosler to show how it works for me.

Yes, temp sticks are a very good thing if not only to help learn and gauge the color change desired in the learning curve. I forgot about those earlier, as over the years I learned a just go by vision, feel, and time to heat source, even if not perfectly consistant, with the sometime maybe exceptions of the serious long range rounds for the consistency. But brass lot mixes really kind of negate that extreme consistency value. 725 will do even if all is really needed a few degrees lower due to composition of the brass chemistry itself between lots and brands. But get that web too hot and the brass is toast. Get the shoulder too hot, can create headspace issue's just by seating the bullet. I have even used my lead pot full of molten lead alloy that has a lower melt point than pure set at my casting temps, of 690 up 725 and anneal real well by dipping and quickly figuring a count time. Saves on gas when its annealing time, and I'm going to cast anyhow. :lol: But yeah, get some tempil stix,,, darn good tool.