Antlerless season?

noslerpartition

noslerpartition

Handloader
May 26, 2018
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Ok, don't stone me for this thread! I don't want to point fingers, just curiosity.

Over here (Germany), we have rhe often used - and ever so often misused - concept of 'Waidgerechtigkeit', which could be translated with hunter-ethics.

One principle is, that you must not shoot the mother while the fawns/calves/piglets/.... still need them. It made it into law and you might loose your licence if you violate that.
Or roe-deer become independent the spring after they are born. From somewhere around mid-December they usually get along ok without the doe.
Fallow-deer and red stag, at least the female calves often stay with their mothers and young siblings for another year, though they usually do not really need them anymore. But it is agreed to shot the calves first, then the cow.

Piglets (ok, antlerless for both sexes) are usually adopted by the family once they are not nursed anymore, though the judge might see if differently.
For other species, where differentiation is difficult, season starts when the young ones are independent (fox, badger, enok, marten, birds, ...).

I started reading US-magazines decades ago, internet etc and I have the impression that it is not as strict on your side of the pond.

Again - no fingerpointing, I just want to know if the impression is wrong.

Cheers,
Frank

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In most locations shooting a female with young would not be legal. The main exception would be pigs, pigs are being hunted to control/eradicate their numbers. All can be shot.

I think protecting mothers and young is fairly universally accepted as good practice.


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In the case of whitetail deer and most other cervids over here, the young are able to survive their first winter. Most mammals evolved to spawn in the spring to give their young ample time to mature enough to survive their first winter.

Their chances of survival go up if this first winter is spent with their mother, but not because they need their mother. The main cause of increased survivability is simply having more noses and eyes to look out for danger. The mothers are not still nursing them nor are they teaching them the ropes of surviving the woods. These are herd animals and they just do better in a herd.

Often times you will see a doe fawn pair and it’s assumed they are blood related. I do it too. I have a hard time blasting a doe and orphaning a fawn and I avoid it if I can. The reality is that these two animals are often not blood related. They just prefer to roll together since they are herd animals.

I would wager that if you dropped a fully mature 1.5 year old doe and a young of the year doe into a winter to survive solo, their rates of survival will be similar.


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In Minnesota it is illegal to shoot a bear with cubs. As for whitetail deer, moose and elk, the young are able to survive their first winters, and the seasons are late enough in the year that the young are no longer dependant on the mothers.

I've closely studied the whitetail on my property over the last few years, and noted particular doe-fawn groups. I see them closely associated through September, then they mix randomly. Generally by late October, seeing the same fawns with their mother is very rare, it is more frequent to see them with other fawns or yearling does, more common to see the breeding does associated with others of a similar age. By late November they are almost completely solitary, and often followed closely by bucks as they are coming into their first breeding. By the November firearms season, the buck fawns will be acting like bucks, following interesting smells, ranging around and looking for does. I've even witnessed one successfully breed a doe. Really killed my hopes for seeing any sort of mature buck in that area.

Mortality in our harsh winters due to weather and predators (we have grey wolves in the area) is always highest among the youngest and oldest of the population, and studies have borne out that there is little or no relation to a mother's presence. In harsh winters, it is common to see the mature does drive fawns and bucks away from food sources, so protecting mature does may actually be contrary to proper game management.
 
Very interesting to.learn about the differences in species!
With red stag, motherless calves might be thrown out of the herd and have a very hard time alone.
Roe stay smaller during life (if they survive) if they loose their mothers early.


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+1- "In harsh winters, it is common to see the mature does drive fawns and bucks away from food sources, so protecting mature does may actually be contrary to proper game management."

I have seen this happen and have heard it suggested that if the "big old does are around- the fawns have less of a chance- shoot the does". Not sure if that is good management or not. Mn Deer management is so replete with problems I wouldn't blame it on that .... oops did I say that out loud.... :lol: CL
 
There's one fawn in particular on my property, very distinctive on camera as he's missing half of his left ear, that I've tracked for 2 full years now. We did harvest his mother in his first year, he's since survived 2 Northern MN winters and is now a respectable 8 point buck.

He looked quite healthy through his first winter, often showing up running with another fawn buck. The mature does tend to take over the best feeding and bedding areas on the land, leaving the youngsters to forage and cover on the fringes. Those older does are the bosses of the woods.
 
The state I live in use to import wild trapped deer from Mich to build the blood line of the existing deer herd back in the late 1940s and 1950s but found that it was costly and unproductive.
In the early to mid 1960s the state started a lottery hunt for antlerless deer to clean out the old non producing does but all antlerless deer were fair game and the season was for one day. This went on for several years and then was stopped to gauge the affect it had on the deer population and no adverse affect was found and it seemed the deer population had increased.
The population actually got out of control and the limit for the taking of deer was increased and other seasons were implemented along with antlerless deer being fair game with higher bag limits. Our deer season starts in Sept and runs threw Dec for various types of Bow and firearms with Bow hunting allowed the full season. If one would use all types of means allowed to kill a deer the can kill legally 15 deer with a single deer tag which is purchased over the counter.
But the majority of the deer are found in areas where there is no hunting allowed and the tree huggers limit access to these areas so the population continues to explode.
 
Antlerless hunts in Washington are a population control measure. The Washington Dept of Fish & Wildlife determines how many doe deer & cow elk need to be taken in a given area to keep the population within limits.

I enjoy hunting antlerless deer & elk very much. It's usually a more casual, easier hunt, and the meat is of course delicious.

No, I wouldn't shoot a mother deer or elk, that still had young with her.

Years ago I almost had to shoot a mother black bear! I'd seen her far off as she approached. I crouched down and waited, not knowing if the bear was male or female. Then, when she was rather too close, I noticed that she had a cub following her! Uh oh... So, we had a short standoff, and she went elsewhere, without being shot. I'm glad I didn't shoot her.

Most pig hunting here in the USA is now full-on population control, actually trying to eradicate them. They'll never be gone, but can be controlled with aggressive shooting. Though there is some "trophy" hunting for big boars, much pig hunting is just to kill them. They're so aggressive, and cause so much damage. They're seen as a non-native, invasive, and undesirable species in many instances.

Regards, Guy
 
An anterless hunt is just that, adult or calf either one depending upon the regulations. I have not hunted in a state that separates them. I choose to not shoot the first year animals, and do my best not to kill a female with young. That becomes more luck than science when you have 30 cow elk coming out of the timber or scattered across the hillside. I have deer on my property nearly every day, and by the time hunting season comes around can tell you which animals have young. No way I could do it without seeing them nearly very day.
 
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