'Best' bullet for the .308 Winchester.

[Thebear_78]

I'm running the 130 TTSX at 3060fps out of my sons 17" barreled 308, clocks 3125fps out of my 24" barrel. That should leave plenty of speed to open up to 300 yards, over 2k fps at 400 yards, and a 130TTSX will out penetrate and retain more weight than any 150-165gr cup and core bullet, even a bonded one.

I have noticed that the tipped tsx bullets have a much larger hollow point cavity that is supposed to initiate expansion much quicker than the original tsx. The guys at Barnes recommend impact velosity over 1800fps for reliable expansion.

 

[Anonymous]

I'm running the 130 TTSX at 3060fps out of my sons 17" barreled 308, clocks 3125fps out of my 24" barrel. That should leave plenty of speed to open up to 300 yards, over 2k fps at 400 yards, and a 130TTSX will out penetrate and retain more weight than any 150-165gr cup and core bullet, even a bonded one.

What powder are you running? 3000k out of a carbine is pretty darn good. Does the TTSX open easier than the TSX?

 

[Antelope_Sniper]

Yes, I said "best"....fully realizing it's a problematic term at best.

Here's the situation- after scoring a nice bull with the Scout at longish range using Remington 150gr Core Lokts- I was unhappy with the bullet performance in the critter. Maybe it's just a matter of foot pounds, but the big bull didn't visibly react to 3 solid hits until he basically bled out. Performance was erratic- the neck shot fragmented on bone. Neither lung shot exited. Impact speeds were likely in the 2k FPS range.

Call me spoiled- but I'm accustomed to more reaction to the shot with my .300WSM- even at extended ranges (another problematic term).

I love hunting with the Scout and plan to do more of it in the future and it's basically all my kid will use- so the question is out there:

What's a better bullet to use than the Cor Lokt, heck- what's the best bullet in the .308 carbine or am I expecting too much?

Welcome to the world of Elk Hunting. This is a good example of why we say they are tough, and not to be under estimated. Unless you score a hit on the central nervous system, don't expect an elk to react to the shot. This is especially true for public land elk that have been pushed into you. They will take the hits, and keep traveling until they bleed out, so don't shoot them just once, shoot them with something big, and something that expands to do a lot of tissue damage.

For the .308, that means something like a 165gr AB, or 180gr BT. But I suspect after this experience you will understand why many of us prefer a .338 with a 200gr BT/225-250gr AB for Elk.

 

[Anonymous]

Welcome to the world of Elk Hunting. This is a good example of why we say they are tough, and not to be under estimated....

For the .308, that means something like a 165gr AB, or 180gr BT. But I suspect after this experience you will understand why many of us prefer a .338 with a 200gr BT/225-250gr AB for Elk.

This was a big bodied bull caribou...not an elk although I suspect many of the same principles apply. My frequent partner uses a .338WM with the excellent 180gr AB and has flattened the heck out of two this year...not just killed them... numbed them. The effectiveness of it is not in question...I just need something a bit lighter for the kid to shoot.

 

[Thebear_78]

IMR 4895

I wanted a load that would kick a little less but still hold together for my sons carbine for bears and bou and still work for moose in a pinch. I don't doubt that this 130 TTSX will do for all three. I wouldn't let him shoot much past 100 yards until he gets a bit more experienced anyway.

The TTSX doEs seem to expand more/faster than the tsx. I have used the 168 TSX for several years in my 300 RUM. This year I switched to the 168 TTSX. Performance on my bou this year was excellent. I run this at MV of 3340 out of my 300 Rum, it's a pretty mild load but extremely accurate.

I shot a large caribou bull at 519 yards. Live wieght of the bull had to be up around 400+ pounds. Impact velosity should have been around 2200-2250fps. The first shot broke the shoulder and went thru the heart, entrance wound into the chest cavity was a little bigger than a quarter and second shot high in the ribs was larger than I have witnessed in previous caribou shot with the TSX.

A buddy of mine shot a nice bull moose with 120gr tsx out of his 7mm/08 a couple years ago. He pUt two the them thru both shoulders finding them both under the hide on the far side. I expect no less from the 130 Ttsx out of the 308.

 

[Guy Miner]

I believe Hodgeman is referring not to elk, but to his caribou hunt.

Link: viewtopic.php?f=5&t=25554

Though I've never hunted caribou, I still think the 165 gr Nosler Ballistic Tip is a fine bullet, and more than up to the task. If a tougher .30 cal bullet is desired, other outstanding choices from Nosler include:

Partition - (does it really get any better?)
AccuBond - essentially just a bonded version of the Ballistic Tip
E-Tip - Wow, what a penetrating son-of-a-bullet! There is no lead... Just bullet.

And, with the .308, I've been real happy with 165/168 gr bullets for a long time. The .308 doesn't have a lot of case capacity, and though I've shot the 180's and heavier, it seems about perfect with the 165's.

Regards, Guy

 

[Grundy53]

Another vote for AccuBond.

sent from my typewriter

 

[Antelope_Sniper]

Ok, I stand corrected. Caribou.
"I shot it 3 times and it didn't even slow down", just sounds like too many elk hunts I've been on.
My deer/antelope bullet for the .308 is the 150gr BT, but for anything bigger, I'm with you GuyM, I'd step up to the 165br AB.

 

[Thebear_78]

I find that the monometal bullets don't get the same dramatic reaction at the shot that the much more explosive conventional bullets like ballistic tips or partitions. Nothing produces those crumpling impacts that a properly placed ballistic tip.

On the other hand the tsx and Ttsx bullets do plenty of damage and are very lethal even on more low precentage shots. Sure it might take 5-10 seconds to drop them but they always work.

A good example is the Berger bullets. I saw a sheep hit in the lungs with a 168 Berger, Literally crushed him at the shot, lots of bloodshot meat and huge exit wound, completely made the vitals a homogenous soupy consistency. A very dramatic DRT performance. Same guy hit a goat later that year, little more quarting angle than he thought, blew up the shoulder, almost took of the front leg, but didn't make it to the vitals. A goat can cover a lot of ground on three legs. Dropped my buddy off to get it and it was still very alive when he got there and he hadn't taken a gun with him.

It didn't look very easy to kill a fairly lively three legged goat with a knife. George is a trooper and got it done. Still I think it would have been a very different story if a Partition, tsx, or Ttsx had been used.

 

[Anonymous]

It didn't look very easy to kill a fairly lively three legged goat with a knife. George is a trooper and got it done. .

Crikey. <low whistling>...this whole thread was worth that story right there!

I guess I'm looking for the crumpling impact- which has been the norm with the AB out of my 300WSM. Great expansion, great penetration and generous exit wounds.

Might be expecting too much out of the .308 at longer range but I believe I'll try some ABs in the 150/165 class and for kicks I'll churn up some 130gr TTSX as well and see how they shoot. Think I'll skip the BT for now since the AB expands almost as readily but holds together a little better.

I've gotten some good input here- all of this has got to be better than the CorLokt.

 

[Thebear_78]

It was a boat based goat hunt and he didn't want to risk dropping his rifle when jumping from the boat onto the rocks. The goat had dropped down below where we could see. I wish we had gotten it on tape. He was pretty surprised to find that goat still alive.

I think the AccuBond will work well for you in that styer scout.

 

[Antelope_Sniper]

I find that the monometal bullets don't get the same dramatic reaction at the shot that the much more explosive conventional bullets like ballistic tips or partitions. Nothing produces those crumpling impacts that a properly placed ballistic tip.

On the other hand the tsx and Ttsx bullets do plenty of damage and are very lethal even on more low precentage shots. Sure it might take 5-10 seconds to drop them but they always work.

A good example is the Berger bullets. I saw a sheep hit in the lungs with a 168 Berger, Literally crushed him at the shot, lots of bloodshot meat and huge exit wound, completely made the vitals a homogenous soupy consistency. A very dramatic DRT performance. Same guy hit a goat later that year, little more quarting angle than he thought, blew up the shoulder, almost took of the front leg, but didn't make it to the vitals. A goat can cover a lot of ground on three legs. Dropped my buddy off to get it and it was still very alive when he got there and he hadn't taken a gun with him.

It didn't look very easy to kill a fairly lively three legged goat with a knife. George is a trooper and got it done. Still I think it would have been a very different story if a Partition, tsx, or Ttsx had been used.

Bear, let me share a trick with you.

When using highly expansive bullets, such as NBT's or Berger VLD, and faced with a long quartering shot/Texas headshot, DON'T AIM FOR THE VITALS. Raise your point of aim a few inches and SHOOT FOR THE SPINE. A spine hit will, at the very least, anchor their hind quarters to the ground, and give you a clean second shot at the vitals. I've also had these violent bullet spine shots open up enough arteries, etc. that the critter bleeds out by the time you can walk to them. It might take two shoots, but so what. It's still meat in the freezer, and you won't have to chase it.

 

[DrMike]

I find that the monometal bullets don't get the same dramatic reaction at the shot that the much more explosive conventional bullets like ballistic tips or partitions. Nothing produces those crumpling impacts that a properly placed ballistic tip.

On the other hand the tsx and Ttsx bullets do plenty of damage and are very lethal even on more low precentage shots. Sure it might take 5-10 seconds to drop them but they always work.

A good example is the Berger bullets. I saw a sheep hit in the lungs with a 168 Berger, Literally crushed him at the shot, lots of bloodshot meat and huge exit wound, completely made the vitals a homogenous soupy consistency. A very dramatic DRT performance. Same guy hit a goat later that year, little more quarting angle than he thought, blew up the shoulder, almost took of the front leg, but didn't make it to the vitals. A goat can cover a lot of ground on three legs. Dropped my buddy off to get it and it was still very alive when he got there and he hadn't taken a gun with him.

It didn't look very easy to kill a fairly lively three legged goat with a knife. George is a trooper and got it done. Still I think it would have been a very different story if a Partition, tsx, or Ttsx had been used.

Bear, let me share a trick with you.

When using highly expansive bullets, such as NBT's or Berger VLD, and faced with a long quartering shot/Texas headshot, DON'T AIM FOR THE VITALS. Raise your point of aim a few inches and SHOOT FOR THE SPINE. A spine hit will, at the very least, anchor their hind quarters to the ground, and give you a clean second shot at the vitals. I've also had these violent bullet spine shots open up enough arteries, etc. that the critter bleeds out by the time you can walk to them. It might take two shoots, but so what. It's still meat in the freezer, and you won't have to chase it.

Good advice, that. I've anchored more than one elk with that identical shot.

 

[sask boy]

I have never used them but a lot guys who shoot the 308 around here shoot Amax 168gr.
I have seen guys use them at the range & they looked to be very accurate!

Blessings,
Dan

 

[Elkman]

My experience with the 308 win, is limited. But not with 308 caliber bullets. Guy says it all for me. !!!!

 

[BeeTee]

I've shot quite a few Nosler 150gr BTs and 165gr BTs in my 308 Ruger Scout.

The 165s always shoot into less than 1 inch. The 150s are 1.5"-2", and I've tried a few different powders and speeds.

Nosler 165gr BT, 44gr W748 and Federal 210 primers - that's what works for me.

BT

 

[tjen]

What's a better bullet to use than the Cor Lokt, heck- what's the best bullet in the .308 carbine or am I expecting too much?

Nothing wrong with the correct CoreLokt bullet. You simply used a Corelokt that was designed for use on deer not an elk. If you would have used a 165gr or 180gr you would be happier with them.

In fact I realy think the 150gr is too light for the .308 win cartridge. For deer any 165gr bullet of proper design would be great for deer and for elk the 180gr is best. If a 165gr is what you want to use on elk go with PT or AB for added bullet integrity.

 

[truck driver]

I know there has been a lot of improvements with Bullet design over the years but the .308 Win. as a military design was intended for use with 147-155gr bullets which the Military believed was the best bullet weight range. I would use a 165gr or larger bullet for Elk if this was the only caliber I owned and then wouldn't take a long range shot much over 200yds. but that's my opinion.
Remember the 150gr load in .308 Win was designed to compete with the 150gr. in 30-06.

 

[Guest]

Thanks for the laugh, TheBear. Needed it this morning!

As for what bullet, I'll add a few thoughts, based on my personal experience with the 168BT and various other bullet designs over the years.

First, I think the BT is a little light for anything bigger than deer, until you get up to the 180gr weights. I use the 180gr BT in my 8x57, to excellent effect, but it does not open nearly as rapidly as the 168gr from my -06. Impact velocities on shots have been similar due to longer shots taken with the -06, so the comparison is pretty clean. I'll also add that heavy bone (neck/spine) will absolutely blow a 168gr BT apart. I lost a good 5-6" of backstrap from a doe who stepped down in a hole as I was breaking the sear on my -06. Very easy tracking, but a lot of good meat spread out over a 40yd cone of effect behind her. And that was at about 2550fps impact velocity.

My experience with E-Tips is limited to magnum rifles, but at ranges from 15-200yds, and impact velocities as high as 3400fps and as low as 2800, performance has been excellent. I'm hoping to get a chance to try them on a longer range shot this season (maybe a standing broadside, double-lung shot on a fat doe at 300-400yds?) and will report. But in the past, I've seen the E-Tip display the dramatic "bang-flop" performance most attribute to the BT. I dropped two deer on the last day of the season this past January with 180gr E-Tips from my 300'bee and both moved about 3', straight down, at the shot. Tracking was, in a word, effortless.

I say all that to say that if I were going to load with your constraints in mind, I think I'd stay in the 150-165gr weight range, and use either the Partition or the AccuBond, or a Speer Hot-Cor if you can find them. Perhaps one of the Deep Curls would also be good, as they are a bonded core, and pretty stout from what I've seen. I'd also try the 130gr TTSX if you can get them, as they may be the best solution of all. They'll likely carry more mass from 2" deep in the target anyway, so the argument that you want a 150gr is moot after impact, comparing the monolith to a lead-core. In fact, that 130gr TTSX may just be the best idea of them all, provided your rifle will shoot them and not copper up so bad that you have to clean it between shot strings to keep accuracy.

 

[Anonymous]

This has been a very informative thread- thanks guys. I've got a trip to Fairbanks in the next week or two and I'll see what I can find.

Probably will try the 150ABs, the 165AB, and the 130TTSX- availability has been spotty as heck up here but it's getting better. We've got some late season hunts planned in a couple of weeks so I hope to provide some new updates.

In recent correspondence, another friend loads the 130TTSX for his wife and gets 3000+ in a Rem M7 with a 20" barrel. She taco'd a moose at 300+ this fall. DRT.

Given our supply situation the Corelokt was about the only thing I could find with any regularity last spring. Hope to find some variety returning.