DrMike
Ballistician
- Nov 8, 2006
- 37,402
- 6,213
Well, come on up and I'll let you take a 'boo! :grin:
Bitteroot Bonded Core
- Thread starter SJB358
- Start date
- Thread starter
- #62
wildgene
Handloader
- Jul 4, 2011
- 1,597
- 2
DrMike":1ja1wacc said:
...hey, what am I, "chopped liver"??? Actually, just interested in the BC's of those 225gr. 8mm's, so far the 220gr. GameKing is the only one that shows any real advantage over the 200gr.bullets available...
...but if it will get Scotty to quit foolin' around & get a .325, I'm all for giving him da boolits...
DrMike
Ballistician
- Nov 8, 2006
- 37,402
- 6,213
Well, Gene, I don't know about the chopped liver. I'm not likely to pursue these two older bullets as my 325WSM shoots the 200 grain PT and the 220 grain Sierra GK so well that I don't feel particularly pushed to look at another. Come on up and I'll share with you. :mrgreen:
- Thread starter
- #65
Spoke with Bill Steigers yesterday. Great man and a guy that'll turn you on your head if you wanna talk rifles and bullets. He was a ballistician for Vernon Speers while compiling Speers 1-6 manuals and man, what a bank vault of information. We talked Idaho elk hunting, 35 Whelens (his favorite elk blaster), bullets and you name it.
Anyhow, I was on the phone with the guy for 2 hours and never felt like a minute. At 86 years old, he has seen a ton of things change but what a great grasp on what good bullets mean to hunting big game. Still gets out and hunts elk, but has since gotten a 375 and loaded with his 250 Bitterroots seems to collapse an elk fairly often I guess.
It was great to hear him talk about Jack O'Connor, EK and Bob Hagel.
Anyhow, the man is always willing to talk bullets, hunting and whatever else about rifles your willing to listen too. The sad part is he isn't making bullets any longer and no one else is building his bullets either, so that design is going to be lost for our kids. Not saying we don't have great bullets, but since I have started this search on the Bitterroots, I haven't heard of so many glaringly awesome reports on bullets when used and loaded correctly. He gave me a heads up on how they need to be loaded and ran.
He made mention of alot of writers who would get 20 bullets back in the day to test and blast them all into paper with medium loads and exclaim they were brutally effective but not very accurate. He explained, you work up with a PT of like weight to an accurate, solid working pressure load, seat a BBC on top of the same load seating to the same OAL off the ogive. Said he hasn't seen a bad outcome of that procedure since the 60's when he started making them by hand. Usually he would fire two PT's at his zero range and one Bitterroot to verify it hit in the same group. Then, he mentioned, go hunting and don't waste them all on paper.
He mentioned his first bullets were lathe turned, by hand and 20 bullets could take upwards of 3 days to produce. Pretty dedicated to the cause if you ask me.
Either way, I know it is like finding a dinosaur egg, but it is sorta fun researching our shooting history a little.
Anyhow, I was on the phone with the guy for 2 hours and never felt like a minute. At 86 years old, he has seen a ton of things change but what a great grasp on what good bullets mean to hunting big game. Still gets out and hunts elk, but has since gotten a 375 and loaded with his 250 Bitterroots seems to collapse an elk fairly often I guess.
It was great to hear him talk about Jack O'Connor, EK and Bob Hagel.
Anyhow, the man is always willing to talk bullets, hunting and whatever else about rifles your willing to listen too. The sad part is he isn't making bullets any longer and no one else is building his bullets either, so that design is going to be lost for our kids. Not saying we don't have great bullets, but since I have started this search on the Bitterroots, I haven't heard of so many glaringly awesome reports on bullets when used and loaded correctly. He gave me a heads up on how they need to be loaded and ran.
He made mention of alot of writers who would get 20 bullets back in the day to test and blast them all into paper with medium loads and exclaim they were brutally effective but not very accurate. He explained, you work up with a PT of like weight to an accurate, solid working pressure load, seat a BBC on top of the same load seating to the same OAL off the ogive. Said he hasn't seen a bad outcome of that procedure since the 60's when he started making them by hand. Usually he would fire two PT's at his zero range and one Bitterroot to verify it hit in the same group. Then, he mentioned, go hunting and don't waste them all on paper.
He mentioned his first bullets were lathe turned, by hand and 20 bullets could take upwards of 3 days to produce. Pretty dedicated to the cause if you ask me.
Either way, I know it is like finding a dinosaur egg, but it is sorta fun researching our shooting history a little.
gerry
Ammo Smith
- Mar 1, 2007
- 6,908
- 1,791
That is really cool to be able to talk to him like that, a guy could learn so much from a guy like him. I do hope someone starts making his bullets again one day, it would be a shame to lose such a valuable piece of history. I remember reading about his bullets in Petersen's Hunting from stories by Bob Hagel, bought a couple of his books as well. Would have loved to have run some 225's or 250's in my Whelen for moose and bears...... It would be neat to hear some of his thoughts on elk, moose and grizzly guns.
DrMike
Ballistician
- Nov 8, 2006
- 37,402
- 6,213
Very cool report, Scotty. I'm sure that was informative. Hope you find a stash of BBC bullets to test.
- Thread starter
- #68
DrMike":2xxj76e6 said:
So, I have found some 225 grain .338 bullets. Not alot, but I believe if I work up accordingly with another bullet, verify the BBC's, I could hunt with them for a couple of years.
Gerry, Bill was a wealth of information. Big .358 caliber fan. Even mentioned rechambering a few old 35 Rem Pre64 barrels to 35 Whelen and hunting alot of elk between him and his brother. I was all smiles when hearing that.
truck driver
Ammo Smith
- Mar 11, 2013
- 7,342
- 924
Boy and I was hoping they would be .308! SHUCKS!!!!!
But I am glad you found some and got to talk to the man yourself.
But I am glad you found some and got to talk to the man yourself.
- Thread starter
- #70
DrMike
Ballistician
- Nov 8, 2006
- 37,402
- 6,213
SJB358":kml2sh44 said:
And if you happen to find anything in .323, will that mean a 325 WSM will be showing up at your house?
- Thread starter
- #72
DrMike
Ballistician
- Nov 8, 2006
- 37,402
- 6,213
SJB358":2kqpjnui said:
It's a disease, I tell ya', a bloomin' disease. :grin:
- Thread starter
- #74
DrMike
Ballistician
- Nov 8, 2006
- 37,402
- 6,213
SJB358":1ovsf8dh said:
Yeah, and whether Mama goes on the warpath when I need a new safe ... or something.
That is great you got to speak with him. I think you are headed west soon for an Elk hunt, maybe you could arrange to sit down with him when your in the western part of the U.S., that would also be an interesting and informative meeting.
Gerry is correct, it would be a shame for those bullets to not be available for future generations. I think you retire from the service soon and who better than you Scotty to start making these bullets again.
Maybe ask Jerry and Aleena for help, so as to get the machinery you would need. You have a built in customer base here, plus we can all spread the word that you are in the bullet business.
I think Microsoft started in somebody's garage,
Remember when everybody said we were crazy to sell everything we owned in Texas, my wife and I both quit good jobs and we moved the entire family to Alaska. Best decision we ever made
Gerry is correct, it would be a shame for those bullets to not be available for future generations. I think you retire from the service soon and who better than you Scotty to start making these bullets again.
Maybe ask Jerry and Aleena for help, so as to get the machinery you would need. You have a built in customer base here, plus we can all spread the word that you are in the bullet business.
I think Microsoft started in somebody's garage,
Remember when everybody said we were crazy to sell everything we owned in Texas, my wife and I both quit good jobs and we moved the entire family to Alaska. Best decision we ever made
- Thread starter
- #77
I have thought about it Sean. I would like to meet Bill, for sure. I'd like to learn how he makes bullets as well.
I wouldn't mind being known as a bullet maker, that is for sure. Not sure if it's anything like drugs though, if you use too much of your own product it could be bad for business! HA!
I wouldn't mind being known as a bullet maker, that is for sure. Not sure if it's anything like drugs though, if you use too much of your own product it could be bad for business! HA!
Africa Huntress
Handloader
- Feb 14, 2012
- 461
- 2
Scotty,
Good Afternoon.
As you know we are dealing with a personal crisis and Aleena is pretty busy and a bit stressed, so she ask me to advise you of the following.
She remembered that her father used the BBC's. Unfortunately, he is no longer with us, but Aleena did keep everything her father and grandfather collected over the years. Products that were packaged like the BBC's , he would put in a box for ease of storage. All our daughters are home and we ask them to search through everything. They did not find any BBC bullets. They found a couple of BBC sacks but no bullets were in them.
We have found two individuals who have some, but to date they have refused to sell them to us. If that changes, we will purchase them and get them to you.
She also ask me to touch on the Woodleigh product. As she had previously mentioned, we only use the woodleigh product in the large calibers ( slower velocities ) rifles, but that is not to say that they dont make excellent bullet's for smaller calibers ( faster velocities ) rifles, because they do. As Gerry and Sean has pointed out they do have tapered products and their products have worked well for us and many of our friends. Whether it is better or worse than another product, all I can say is that the way we measure the quality of a bullet is how well it performs in the field. We have yet to lose an animal shot with a Woodleigh bullet, so in the grand scheme of things, I am not sure what is better than that. The Rhino is another product that several people we know use in Africa, and they have worked well for them, especially when hunting Elephant, Hippo and Buffalo type game.
We do not do our own reloading, but have all our ammo loaded. Our preference in the field is GSC, Norma, Northfork, and Woodleigh, but we use others. Aleena used the Nosler product on her sheep hunt in Asia and it worked just as Jim said it would.
Sean, what in the world, makes you think we want to be in the bullet business, but I do agree, it would be pretty nice to have one of our own in the business and who is any more qualified than Scotty.
Scotty, when you visit with him ask about any existing patents, that may not have expired. Also were any patents or product rights sold to anyone else along the way.
Respectfully Submitted
Jerry
Good Afternoon.
As you know we are dealing with a personal crisis and Aleena is pretty busy and a bit stressed, so she ask me to advise you of the following.
She remembered that her father used the BBC's. Unfortunately, he is no longer with us, but Aleena did keep everything her father and grandfather collected over the years. Products that were packaged like the BBC's , he would put in a box for ease of storage. All our daughters are home and we ask them to search through everything. They did not find any BBC bullets. They found a couple of BBC sacks but no bullets were in them.
We have found two individuals who have some, but to date they have refused to sell them to us. If that changes, we will purchase them and get them to you.
She also ask me to touch on the Woodleigh product. As she had previously mentioned, we only use the woodleigh product in the large calibers ( slower velocities ) rifles, but that is not to say that they dont make excellent bullet's for smaller calibers ( faster velocities ) rifles, because they do. As Gerry and Sean has pointed out they do have tapered products and their products have worked well for us and many of our friends. Whether it is better or worse than another product, all I can say is that the way we measure the quality of a bullet is how well it performs in the field. We have yet to lose an animal shot with a Woodleigh bullet, so in the grand scheme of things, I am not sure what is better than that. The Rhino is another product that several people we know use in Africa, and they have worked well for them, especially when hunting Elephant, Hippo and Buffalo type game.
We do not do our own reloading, but have all our ammo loaded. Our preference in the field is GSC, Norma, Northfork, and Woodleigh, but we use others. Aleena used the Nosler product on her sheep hunt in Asia and it worked just as Jim said it would.
Sean, what in the world, makes you think we want to be in the bullet business, but I do agree, it would be pretty nice to have one of our own in the business and who is any more qualified than Scotty.
Scotty, when you visit with him ask about any existing patents, that may not have expired. Also were any patents or product rights sold to anyone else along the way.
Respectfully Submitted
Jerry
- Thread starter
- #79
Great info Jerry. Great to see you post as well.
I know you have alot going on right now, so I appreciate you taking the time to post up what you've found.
I have no idea about patents or anything like that at this point though. I am just talking with him about anything he is willing to tell me about. I am in receive mode at this point. I'd love to learn to build his bullets though. Seems like it would probably be a niche market as they would probably be as expensive as Northforks or the like, but if they could be put out to the masses again, it would be cool to see them there.
I imagine I will speak with Bill later though. After our first conversation I had 200 more questions he made me think of after he schooled me. Pretty great guy, who made something that is still trying to be replicated.
Take care of your family. Like to hear more from you, anytime your able.
I know you have alot going on right now, so I appreciate you taking the time to post up what you've found.
I have no idea about patents or anything like that at this point though. I am just talking with him about anything he is willing to tell me about. I am in receive mode at this point. I'd love to learn to build his bullets though. Seems like it would probably be a niche market as they would probably be as expensive as Northforks or the like, but if they could be put out to the masses again, it would be cool to see them there.
I imagine I will speak with Bill later though. After our first conversation I had 200 more questions he made me think of after he schooled me. Pretty great guy, who made something that is still trying to be replicated.
Take care of your family. Like to hear more from you, anytime your able.
gerry
Ammo Smith
- Mar 1, 2007
- 6,908
- 1,791
alaska100":2vmskizn said:
The funny thing is I was thinking something similar, might be a great career for someone if they the desire within to make it work
Similar threads
