BT for Elk, Moose?

[DrMike]

Has anyone used the 180 grain Ballistic Tip for large game at 300 Wby velocities? If so, how did they perform? I'd appreciate any feedback.

I was asked to develop a load for a 300 Wby using 180 grain BT. I argued for AB or PT, but the owner of the rifle insisted that he wanted BTs. Of course, I'll develop what he wants, but I'm less than enthusiastic given the known performance of ABs and PTs. I may work up a set of loads with the AB on my own just to show what they can do.

 

[Anonymous]

I would recommend the PT or AB. That is exactly what the PT was originally designed for and lots of Moose and Elk have also been taken with AccuBond. The Ballistic Tip will work and it will work well, but if your pushing them fast and you take a shot that isn't very far, you'll wish you would have been using one of the other two. Just tell him he loses nothing by going with an AccuBond and gains a lot in the way of shot "flexibility".

 

[hardpan]

Dr Mike,
I have seen them used at my ranch. Some killed, but a few busted on the shoulder and only caused a lot of collateral damage. I started requesting that the hunters use a stronger bullet after that. On deer and pigs, they were devastating!
Hardpan

 

[hardpan]

Neck shoot the elk. Should be better. Also, i have seen cows earholed and they drop like a stone.
Hardpan

 

[DrMike]

Thanks, fellows. I'm concerned at Wby velocities that the BT could break up and not kill as effectively as he might wish. He claims that he has used the BT for several years in another rifle and it worked very well. Since I cannot verify the accuracy of his claims, I recommended going with a tougher bullet. However, people can get some funny ideas sometimes, imagining that they are saving a couple of dollars when in fact they lose a whole lot more on a ruined hunt. I know what a rifle is capable of when it leaves my hands, and usually I am able to make a pretty good statement concerning accuracy. However, what the owner does with that rifle sometimes leaves a lot to be desired. Many do not shoot enough to get the most out of the rifle/load potential.

 

[FOTIS]

I know a guy who uses them at 3300 fps on elk from his sendero rum. Shots usually under 100 yards and never recovered one. Double lung shots so far.

 

[DrMike]

POP,

I appreciate that information. My concern is close shots that hit a shoulder at high velocities. This man claims that he has never recovered a bullet yet. Again, he says, as you say of your friend, that they are all double lung shots. I'm just a bit uneasy. Were it my rifle, I believe I'd be shooting ABs. However, it is good to have some affirmation. I'm still recommending ABs, but it does not look as if I will prevail.

 

[Antelope_Sniper]

180 AB's would be about perfect, but with the 180 BT's I wouldn't be too worried. I would feel as comfortable if he was shooting 150 BT's at Weatherby velocities for elk, but the 180's are still a reasonable size chunk of lead.

 

[Charlie-NY]

It seems to me that the rule of thumb was that Ballistic Tips had good terminal performance when the impact velocity was below 2,700 ft/sec, or there abouts.

What impact velocity does the shooter anticipate?

 

[DrMike]

The impact velocity will vary, of course. I am not so terribly concerned when the shot is 200 yards or more, which it could it across a canyon. My concern is for those close shots in timber when the velocity may exceed 3100 fps. Indeed, the 180 grain BT is a fair chuck of lead. Nevertheless, my personal feeling is that an AccuBond or a Partition would serve this gentleman better in that instance. As JustMo states, "he loses nothing by going with an AccuBond and gains a lot in the way of shot 'felxibility.'"

 

[nomosendero]

I would rather use the AccuBond & that bullet sure worked on a Cow perfectly last winter, but we had a conversation about this a couple of months ago & we know that the 180BT is now a 3rd generation bullet, toughened twice.

 

[OldMan]

I have used the 180 bt on several elk, always lung shots and always bit the dirt! This is with my 300 win at 3070 fps, at 3200 or better it may blow up? I did use the 150 bt for deer in my old 300 wby one time-- what a hole!

 

[remingtonman_25_06]

They've worked great out of 300 win mags at 3000-3100fps on elk for many of us but our average shot is usually 200 yards or more. A 300 WBY pushes them at most 200fps faster so as long as you stay under 3000fps impact velocity you should be ok.

If the shot is under 200 yards I would try to avoid the shoulder, but after that I wouldn't worry to much about it. Its not a bullet you want to take an ass shot with, but then again, thats not a good shot to be taking at large game anyways.

We've only found a couple 180g nbt's from the several elk shot and they were on the offside hide after busting through shoulders. Believe they were around 400-500 yards. Not to bad of performance if you ask me. The elk dropped and was dead before it hit the ground I'm sure.

I say the only advantage the AB has over the NBT is inside of 200 yards where it will hold together better. At 200 yards, even the fastest cartridges will be down to around 3000fps and thats definately within the NBT's ability.

For a 300 WBY though, it would be very tough to beat a 200g AB at 3100fps.

 

[big rifle man]

JustMo has got it on the money. A lot of Elk are taken at much shorter ranges than mentioned and not all shots are textbook perfect. As most Elk don't stand broadside the AccuBond or Partition are the way to go. I've seen Elk hit close up with the BT and without getting into specifics the Partition and AccuBond are best.

 

[Antelope_Sniper]

I wouldn't be afraid to take a tail shot with that load. I would aim just above the exhaust pipe. A highly expansive bullet on the end of a tailbone would drop his/her butt to the ground, and the elk would be going no where fast. You now have time to reposition or approach for a follow up shot. Might take two shots, but you would still have elk in the freezer.

 

[DrMike]

I did shoot the 300 Wby this afternoon. It shot 180 grain BST to 0.39" at a grain off maximum charge. During break-in, I shot a favourite AB load (1.19"), a favourite Scirocco load (1.19"), and a favourite InterBond load (0.65"). In the interim, I got the go-ahead to work up either an AccuBond or an InterBond load for the rifle. Though the BSTs shoot very well indeed, I believe the owner will be a lot happier with the AB, and I believe that working up a load will yield better results than experienced during break-in.

 

[big rifle man]

Sorry to disagree with you antelope sniper but I shoot to kill, not to wound. If it was something that might have expectations on taking a bite out of me fine, but not an Elk/deer type game animal.

 

[Antelope_Sniper]

Yea, BRM, I know my position on this is Blasphemy, but I personally feel it's a higher percentage shot, and leaves fewer wounded animals then trying the traditional parting the hams shot. Elmer Kieth always complained about bullets getting stuck in the pounch on that shot on elk. Between the hams, throught the guts, up to the heart and lungs, that's a long ways for a bullet to travel.

Hit the spine, and you've just anchored their butt to the ground, hence the nick-name "anchor shot".

Once the elk's butt in on the ground, one of two things will happen. If the critter continues to face way, you have a clear shot between the shoulder blades, if it turns either direction, you have a quartering/broadside shot.

In either event, as fast as you can work the bolt, and re-sight, you will have your follow-up shot, and your killshot. 8)

 

[jhunter1010]

in my experience, the bt and the AccuBond have had the same p.o.i, so you could try working up the bt load, then load the AccuBond the same way , and if its the same he has a more reliable hunting load and also has the bt's for cheaper practice

 

[JD338]

The AB or PT would be my recommendation.

JD338