Bullet designs

[Guest]

Hey everyone,
Have a question regarding Barnes Bullets. My Colorado Hunting Buddy had an experience shooting Barnes 180 XLCBT Bullets last year shooting a 300 Win Mag going 3200fps. Shot a Large Muley Buck at 75 yds thru the shoulders, then 2 x thru the rib cage as the bullet did not open after examining the deer, small nickel sized holes exiting.This guy used to shoot Partitions and mentioned if he had Partitions the first shot would have flatened him.

Question #1: Have any of you had a similar experience?

Question #2: I there a design difference between the old XLCBT Nose Cavity and the newer TSX ?

So everyone knows I'm not switching to Barnes, I'm just curious about all this!

 

[Guy Miner]

Nickle sized exit holes indicate some expansion to me - but perhaps limited.

The old coated Barnes bullets are no longer in production either, replaced by the various plastic-tipped and hollow-point TSX bullets. One of the claims for the tipped TSX is that it opens faster, and perhaps more reliably, than the old Barnes bullets. You're not the only person to report a failure to expand, or just minimal expansion from the Barnes.

For example: I shot two mule deer bucks with the 100 gr Barnes from my .25-06 rifle. One showed excellent expansion through the chest cavity. The other... Well I'm not sure it expanded at all. Could barely see an exit wound. Still, the deer did drop on the spot. Over on another forum, 24 Hour Campfire, there has been a debate about Barnes bullets raging off and on for a long time. Personally I think they're a pretty decent hunting bullet, in their present configuration anyway, but I'd rather sling a Nosler.

Regards, Guy

 

[boolit]

180 grains is too much for Deer, especially at short range.

I know a gunsmith in my area who went to Barnes for bigger critter at longer range.

Lighten the bullet weight for your 300 and you'll be fine on Barnes or Nosler.

 

[DrMike]

Size of exit hole gives little information concerning hydrostatic shock and tissue disruption as the bullet passes through vital areas. A very similar debate raged on some other forums a while ago condemning AccuBonds as inferior because deer were unaffected by the shot. It was a silly debate as anecdotal evidence was presented as verified fact. Yet, almost always the one reporting the failure spoke of the exit hole, indicating that the animal was recovered and examined. On necropsy, examine the extent of tissue disruption to determine the effectiveness of the bullet. In general, Barnes (as is true of all monolithic type bullets) is designed for weight retention and penetration. On deer size game, the monolithic bullets will work just fine. However, one would likely see better performance (i.e. greater tissue disruption) with either the Partition or the AccuBond.

A bullet weight of 180 grains is excellent for the 300 WM. However, 3200 fps is a somewhat excessive velocity. The bullet will perform well at that velocity, but it does indicate a higher pressure than is acceptable for that cartridge.

 

[boolit]

Through the years I tried many different bullets. I actually tested them on sopping wet phonebooks.

The lower portions were all in tact. So I guess all are good, right? Wrong.

Sierra was the only bullet that showed controlled expansion. But a couple of years ago, I shot a whitetail doe at 300 yards with a sierra GK,with a start load. I didn't recover the bullet, and had trouble finding the exit hole. After I skinned her, I found the exit hole.

So I know that wet phone books don't represent animal tissue. My point is, resistance is needed to open a bullet to perform. I don't think the vitals on a whitetail, or a muledeer, verses a Elk are the same mass. So should we expect a bullet to expand like we would expect it to?

 

[Elkman]

Check out the posts on "what should be my go to bullet" it explains it all. Us the PT your issues will be over!!!

 

[FOTIS]

The XLC's also known in some forums as the "Blue Meanies" were one attempt by Barnes to perfect the X bullet.

They were expensive, harder to manufacture, sometime difficult to get to shoot accurately and were plagued with stories of riveting, not expanding and tumbling like an FMJ. I know first hand. I used them for a while.

 

[SJB358]

I used the XLC's with great luck on elk and deer, but major bones were encountered in all cases with my 300WM. I stick with PT's now. TSX's and others are great bullets, but the soft front lead core of a PT just about guarantees some expansion, and the Partition guarantees it will keep going. Hard to fight them too much unless your an ultra long range feller. Scotty

 

[Guest]

Everyone's input is valuable. I used to shoot the Blue Bullet in my 300 Ultra Mag, used to get 3300fps, but was losing velocity no matter the powder used.
Experienced fliers etc, then would cut holes too. Got tired of the high maintenance to shoot this bullet. Never had a performance issue killing game.Concerning my friends experience this was a large Muley in the 250-300lb. class, so this bullet should have performed.

I told him to switch back to Partitions, even try the Accubonds. Yes his velocity was excessive with the 300 Win Mag. but could get it with the coated bullet, actually had no pressure issues either. It is a compressed load as I used to load it for him at one point. He gave the 300 Win Mag to his son and has since then purchased a 300 Weatherby.
Still shoots the same 180 Blue Bullet, 3267fps. He explained to me the other year he shot a 6x6 Bull 3-times, got the bull but feels killing power isn't there compared to the Partition he used for years. I'm just sooooooo convinced we have better and more reliable expansion across the board with the Nosler offerings.
By the way, with my 300 Ultra Mag, refer to my earlier writings on this Forum, after switching back to Nosler with the Accubonds I got the speed back I expected with out a lot of messing around getting there. I truly believe the grooves in Barnes products allows some blow by in the barrel, less bearing bullet surface etc.
Just my opinion.

Don

 

[FOTIS]

I truly believe the grooves in Barnes products allows some blow by in the barrel, less bearing bullet surface etc.
Just my opinion.

Don

That is the key to accuracy and acceptable pressures. I guarantee it.

 

[Lorenzo]

After usins Barnes bullets in several calibers I quit using them FOREVER. My hunting buddies have taken the same decision. I like pass through shots but I like a bullet to expand and I saw many Barnes passing through like solids if no major bones were hitted. To each his own but I am not using them any more no matter if they come with coloured plastic tips or not. I loose a couple of animals because of them, only small drops of blood and nothing more. Obviously the shots where not perfect but that's the reason why I use soft bullets on game and not solids....

Sorry to sound radical but I am not using monolithic bullets any more despite I have taken some game with Barnes bullets. I lost my faith on them for hunting common game as deers and pigs. For dangerous game like buffs they are ok.

L

 

[FOTIS]

No problem Lorenzo. Everybody is entitled to their opinion.

 

[boolit]

Lorenzo....

maybe we should tell Barnes what you found? :lol:

 

[boolit]

dang Pop.. I can't even make a post without you in the way... :lol:

 

[FOTIS]

It is my job Boolit. I am here all the time to kill Spammers (lately from the Far East selling shoes and Cigarettes). :twisted: :twisted: :twisted:

 

[boolit]

It is my job Boolit. I am here all the time to kill Spammers (lately from the Far East selling shoes and Cigarettes). :twisted: :twisted: :twisted:

Roger that...

 

[Guest]

boolit,
I 'm not of the opinion that Barnes should be notified of an expansion isuue that has presented itself from time to time on the XLC (Blue Bullet). It is a discontinued bullet and I feel they knew of the issue as well as some other things added to it. Barnes manufacturing has some fine bullets but I think they changed the front nose cavity somewhat with the TSX that replaced it. Noslers Partition design has not changed if any since it's debut and is proven reliable it all applications followed by the AccuBond etc.

We all have differing opinions on bullets, but I think we all want the same results with the final outcome of killing game quickly and efficiently.
My initial point in this thread was not to put Barnes Bullets down but merely gain some valuable information to throw back at my hunting partner.This Forum is just incredible with the wealth of knowledge everyone brings to the table, of which I am greatful.

Don

 

[FOTIS]

boolit,
I 'm not of the opinion that Barnes should be notified of an expansion isuue that has presented itself from time to time on the XLC (Blue Bullet). It is a discontinued bullet and I feel they knew of the issue as well as some other things added to it. Barnes manufacturing has some fine bullets but I think they changed the front nose cavity somewhat with the TSX that replaced it..............
Don

I agree they fixed it. The TTSX! :mrgreen:

 

[Lorenzo]

Maybe in a couple of years when they bring up the TTTSXXXWYX I will try them again... :mrgreen:


L

 

[Jim1 AB]

Three animals killed with TTXSs this year. My antelope 200 yards plus. In through the shoulder out through the neck. All kinds of bone smashed. 120 grain out of my 6.5/375 Ruger. We all know they penetrate and that just confirms it.

Two white tails shot with my son-in-law's 257 Weatherby and 100 gr. TTSXs. 250 lb. Buck shot at 225 yards +- Exited low chest. I have no idea where my hunting buddy hit him. The hide is still on and not an easy one to figure out. Lungs shot up pretty good though and no real bones hit. I shot a doe 125 Ib range later that day. I prefect broad side shot at the 200 yard range. Exit wound was the 1 1/2" no bones in but hit a rib on the way out.

Up until a very few months ago I wouldn't have them in a rifle of mine. I use them a hundred years ago and they just didn't work for all the reasons everyone has heard. Glad I rethought my bias. Not my pick for everyone and all hunting situations but they still penetrate real well and they now expand well. Just to qualify the last statement. They expand well at higher velocities. Both rifles are shooting them around the 3600ft/sec range.