Bullet Performance, Blood Trails, and Meat Damage

[NYDAN]

I am writing in response to JimBeaux82's post "TSX bullet performance and meat damage" but moving the discussion into a little different direction. In discussions on Mr. JimBeaux82's post more than one person mentioned that unexpected things sometimes happen in actual field use. I also have noticed varying amounts of "meat damage" and "blood shot meat" when dressing out deer.

I have a theory that a contributing factor to the amount of "blood shot" damage a hunter sees when butchering his game is whether or not the heart stops when the bullet hits. Blood doesn't flow unless the heart is beating. My theory is that if an animal is shot and the heart is still beating that the heart pumps blood into the bullet damaged area and causes the heavy blood clots that we call "blood shot" meat. Whereas, if an animal is shot and the heart stops beating on impact, there will be less blood clots or "blood shot" meat.

I am sure many of us have seen times when an animal ran 30 - 50 yards after being hit in the chest and left a "good" blood trail, and similar times when there was no blood trail. I think the difference is whether or not the heart had stopped beating. If the heart is not stopped you get a good blood trail. If the heart stopped, you don't get a good blood trail.

A few years ago I stalked up on a feeding doe and shot it with a borrowed 30-30. I wasn't used to the heavier trigger and I pulled my shot low. I didn't know it at the time I shot. I assumed I had placed the bullet in the chest. When I tracked out the deer I found absolutely no blood on the snow. There was only one drop of blood under the body where it lay. Upon dressing it out, I found that I had NOT penetrated the body cavity at all, but had only grazed the brisket. The bullet impact on the brisket had bruised the heart and caused it to stop. There was a literal bruise on the heart. I like to tell people that I scared the deer to death. Dead deer - no blood trail.

I also believe that a beating heart will also tend to distribute adrelene and other stress related chemicals throughout a wounded deer. Some of the toughest, worse tasting venison I have had came from wounded deer that had to be tracked done and dispatched. Some of the tenderest and best tasting venison came from deer with spine and heart shots.

In conclusion, I think that some of the bullet performance "discrepancies" are related to whether or not the animal's heart stopped upon bullet impact.

 

[tjen]

Its pretty simple, major factor is velocity second is the bullets terminal design. And there are lots combinations that work to dispatch game. A third factor is what the bullet actually hits. All these factors determine terminal performance and what type of trauma.

The surgical cut of an arrow does not cause massive trauma just deathly drop in blood pressure. Bullets work differently and mainly by trauma. In the end its oxygen deprivation unless its a nervis system hit of some kind.

tramma or trauma not sure maybe its french in origin

Medium bore medium velocity works pretty well if the distance is not too far. So does putting the bullet in the right spot.

 

[SJB358]

Here is a caveman look at it. I aim for the biggest spot I can hit with what I think is the heaviest and hardiest bullet I can run. I know I will mess a shot up now and again, but everything Dan and TJen mentioned are awesome points, but I have seen no difference in meat between heart shot, lung shot, spine, or even gut shot animals that were recovered if they were treated properly in the butchering process. Again, I have probably have 1/2 as much life in the hunting fields as some, but I believe most of the meat tasting weird or funky comes from poor meat management. Even big bulls taste fine if they are cooled and processed properly. Same with deer.

Pretty much every deer we kill down here is full of adrenaline from being pushed by hounds, the meat has been EXCELLENT so far, even on the larger bucks.

 

[wisconsinteacher]

A agree with SJB358 that I want the best bullet/round for the job but I also think tenderness and "gamey" meat come from poor care. I have shot a fair number of deer that were jumped by drivers and they all taste great. I take a lot of time to get all the silver skin off the meat and to make sure it is clean. I also think it comes down to the animal. You can have a farmer raise two hogs and one maybe tough and the other perfect. No two animals are the same. As far as blood shot, the worst blood shot I see is on a deer shot with an arrow. When the lungs are cut there is a lot of blood. Most of the time if the deer is cleaned/skinned/ and taken care of, the loss of meat is about a handful. I also see the same with deer shot with rifles. The only time I have seen a big mess was with a mag rifle shooting a fragile bullet that hit bone. That can lead to a lot of damaged meat.

That is just my thought. The guy that does not take care of the animal will have bad tasting meat.

 

[truck driver]

Plus one with what SJB358 and WT have said so far, you have to take care of the meat and Field dress the animal properly, if you gut shoot the animal it has to be taken care of right away, if you bust the urine sack/bladder when Field dressing and let it run all over the meat it will have a taste if you cut off the musk sacks and cut into them and then Field dress the animal with the same knife you will contaminate the meat and it will have a taste.
Field dressing an animal isn't rocket science but if not done properly it will affect the flavor of the meat.

 

[wisconsinteacher]

One thing I will add with the field dressing of a deer. I do not split the pelvis bone. I think it can be dangerous. (you hear people cutting themselves while doing it) I also think it opens up an area for more dirt/leaves/stuff to get near the meat.

 

[NYDAN]

I absolutely agree with the points made concerning proper field dressing. The taste of the meat was really a very secondary point.

The primary point I was trying to make was that, all other things being equal, bullet performance evaluations concerning blood trails and blood shot meat may complicated by whether or not the bullet shock/damage had stopped the heart. If not, you may have more of a blood trail and more blood shot meat. If so, you may have less of a blood trail and less blood shot meat.

 

[truck driver]

NYDAN, we may have missed your point. but bullet placement will determine the amount of blood trail. I've shoot deer with a bow and when I found them they had plugged the hole after pulling the arrow out so as to stop the bleeding, Impossible not really. Hit too far forward you get a lot of damaged meat and no or very little blood, too far back and no blood at all unless you cut the animal in half. You have to hit the lungs to get a lot of blood and if you don't have an exit hole the blood trail will still be slight.
Use a big enough caliber to get the job done, if you use a high velocity round like a small caliber, magnum or too light a bullet at high velocity you are going to damage a lot of meat. Some light bullets at high velocity will blow up on contact, a varmint bullet and some light for caliber in magnums.

 

[wisconsinteacher]

I wonder if the heart really stops when shot??? A buddy shot a doe last week with a 30-06 that took the heart out. After the shot the deer ran 50 yards with a blood trail showing the heart was pumping the blood out as it ran. Not trying to be a smart butt, but I don't think you can just stop the heart. The muscles around the heart are going to keep pumping even if others around them are damaged.

 

[cloverleaf]

I wonder if the heart really stops when shot??? A buddy shot a doe last week with a 30-06 that took the heart out. After the shot the deer ran 50 yards with a blood trail showing the heart was pumping the blood out as it ran. Not trying to be a smart butt, but I don't think you can just stop the heart. The muscles around the heart are going to keep pumping even if others around them are damaged.

I would venture that many things can run (or fly) a good distance when heart shot . When I was a kid you could tell a pheasant with a BB through the heart cause he'd fly like mad at a climb for 20-30 yards before dropping dead. Have heard of heart shot deer/ and antelope that run when heart shot. The blood and oxygen is still in the muscles and brain for a time, and so they run. The original post makes a good point IMHO and would seem to be proven out in my deer this year. Just a little button buck, hit with a copper solid 300 Gr slug through both shoulders, He ran 30 plus yards before he gave it up. The shoulders were ruined, I would assume because that blood leaked out the holes in the tissue. Thought I was gonna put him down with a double shoulder hit but as the Duke would say"its a long ways from the heart".

 

[HTDUCK]

I would venture that many things can run (or fly) a good distance when heart shot . When I was a kid you could tell a pheasant with a BB through the heart cause he'd fly like mad at a climb for 20-30 yards before dropping dead. Have heard of heart shot deer/ and antelope that run when heart shot. The blood and oxygen is still in the muscles and brain for a time, and so they run. The original post makes a good point IMHO and would seem to be proven out in my deer this year. Just a little button buck, hit with a copper solid 300 Gr slug through both shoulders, He ran 30 plus yards before he gave it up. The shoulders were ruined, I would assume because that blood leaked out the holes in the tissue. Thought I was gonna put him down with a double shoulder hit but as the Duke would say"its a long ways from the heart".

Years ago I heart shot a buck with my 06 and a 165 Hornady at around 150 yards.
There was NO blood trail for the first 40 yards. After that Ray Charles could have found this deer.
He ran almost 450 yards with his heart blown completely out of his chest.
After that I quit shooting deer in the heart, now I aim for the lungs if I can.
There isn't much meat on a whitetail's rib cage anyway.

Last year I shot a doe at around 250 yards,high through both shoulders with my 7STW and a 160
Partition going 3320 at the muzzle. It broke her back and both shoulders of course, but she managed to push herself 50 yards on her hind legs.

As previously stated, I too am of the opinion that proper care of game in the field is the biggest determining factor in quality as table fare.
Get the dressed cleanly in as rapid manner and allow them to cool.
Here in Tx that often means skinned, quartered and in an ice chest w ice.

 

[Elkman]

The wrong bullet in the wrong place "always" results in meat damage. I have no way to know how the heart "beating" effects or not effects the meat. I have "never" seen a heart shot animal that did "not" run. Some farther than others. I do know that I have served an awful lot of people meat from deer and elk who hated both, but loved mine, after they tried it. Use the best bullet you can afford, put it in the right place and take the best care of your meat that you can, and all is well.
I have had the misfortune to make a few very bad shots, (rear end) on elk, with a 300 WM. Meat loss in all was minimal with the most I can remember about 5 lbs., some with less than a 1 lbs. I attribute that to the Nosler Partition, quick recovery, and care of the meat. Just my .02 on a difficult subject.

 

[cloverleaf]

Years ago I heart shot a buck with my 06 and a 165 Hornady at around 150 yards.
There was NO blood trail for the first 40 yards. After that Ray Charles could have found this deer.

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: Power spurted Coffee just destroyed the keyboard :lol: :lol:

As previously stated, I too am of the opinion that proper care of game in the field is the biggest determining factor in quality as table fare.
Get the dressed cleanly in as rapid manner and allow them to cool.
Here in Tx that often means skinned, quartered and in an ice chest w ice.

[/quote]

+1 Usually what it takes

 

[Guy Miner]

With deer, most of mine have simply collapsed at the shot. No running, no blood trail to follow, no muss, no fuss. Just a very dead deer.

.223 with a 55 gr SP to a .50 cal muzzle loader with a 385 gr hollow point, or the .45/70 with a 405 gr SP.

Of course these were mostly (but not entirely) mule deer, and I hear from whitetail hunters that whitetail are stronger, hardier deer and that they will run from a hit that will instantly kill a mulie. Beats me. My son and I haven't shot many whitetail, and no big whitetail bucks.

Meat damage? The slower moving, bigger bullets tend to ruin less meat.

One year was a stark contrast. My son shot a mulie with his 6mm Rem and the vicious 95 gr Nosler Ballistic Tip. I shot mine with a 405 gr Remington Soft Point from my .45/70 Marlin. The meat damage on his deer was tremendous compared to the minimal meat damage from the big, slow bullet. Both dropped instantly but the deer hit with the 6mm was pretty messed up around the bullet hole.

FWIW, Guy

 

[DrMike]

I've shot quite a few deer with a .356. I don't recall any having significant blood-shot meat. I have witnessed such blood shot meat on moose and elk shot with a 270WSM and/or my 7RM. Again, most mule deer have collapse at the shot in my experience. About half the time, whitetail, despite being hit well, manage to put thirty to forty yards under their hooves after the shot. They are a different animal.

 

[Oldtrader3]

There is a pretty strong set of theories about the fullness of the heart atria with blood when the bullet strikes the heart causing a compression of the non-neutonian fluids of the heart into the major blood vessels away from the heart. This could be responsible for the clots and pools of blood in lung and other organ tissues?