came across this on midways comment section

[barthowes]

refering to .308 168gr BT
"Scott S of Red Hill, GADate posted: 2/14/2011I was excited when I bought these based on reviews. I expected good expansion and decent groups. What I ended up with was a mess in the form of loose powder. Using IMR 4064 at a LD of around 97% and some compression takes place unless the cases are vibrated to pack the powder in. All my brass is fire formed Federal neck sized with a Lee collet die and factory crimp die. I test run every round I load through my rifle as a final check before deeming them fit for use. The bearing surface is so hard that the crimp die will crush the case neck paper thin and never mark the bullet. Maybe I got a bad batch but I will never buy another Nosler bullet. Every other bullet I’ve every loaded will give a little under the crimp die. Out of 20 rounds I had 3 creep out and contact the rifling, there was enough neck tension to jam the bullet into the lands with enough force to turn my barrel into a bullet puller and throw powder every where upon extraction."

A little confused about some of this please help me. A Load Density of 97% shouldn't have compression right....When I use my LFCD I have never notice the bullet "give". I thought you were only pressing the case against the bullet to give it uniform tension not actually crimping the brass into the bullet.....Have any of you every had your 30 cal bullets come loose like this man has. I know most of my rifles I can't even seat them into the landsor they'll be too long to fit in the magazine. Got a good laugh so I thought I'd share it...

 

[Guest]

I can't imagine 97% being compressed - except maybe for a minute or two after dropping the charge. Sounds to me like this guy built some loads that were either wrongly charged, or were wrongly sourced. If he charged loads with a 97% load density charge and they backed bullets out, he's got serious issues that I've never faced. I suspect what happened was, he set up his seating die wrong, jammed a bullet into the lands (which I've done and it takes a ton of force to close the bolt, by the way), pulled it when he racked the bolt back, and dumped a bunch of powder into his action - and now he's pissed off and decided Nosler must be to blame. There's no accounting for ignorance and stupidity in combination!

I've not had any issues with Nosler bullets when I used a Lee Crimp Die, but I've also stopped using them and suffered no loss in accuracy out to 400-500yds which is my limit for hunting.

 

[DrMike]

Before significant compression occurs with IMR 4064, one would have to be at ~110% of case capacity. Either this gentleman is seating his bullets very deeply into the case, or he is wrong in his assessment. I do use a crimp die on occasion, and I would say that he is attempting to crush the neck against the bullet. Sounds as if the gentleman has a mad on and will take it out on Nosler rather than admitting that he has no idea what he is doing.

 

[Antelope_Sniper]

Almost sounds like he's using .06 data in a .308....
Crushing the necks paper thin? I don't think that's a how a Lee factory crimp die is supposed to be used.

 

[DrMike]

Crushing the necks paper thin? I don't think that's a how a Lee factory crimp die is supposed to be used.

You are absolutely correct. I have never seen a Factory Crimp Die crush the neck paper thin. Your observation about the possibility that he is using the wrong data is quite interesting, and may well be correct.

 

[Guest]

He better check his powder scale, maybe he just needs glasses! :mrgreen:

Don

 

[DrMike]

As an aside, though related, there will always be anecdotal accounts of problems with good bullets circulating. "AccuBond bullets 'pencil' through and don't expand." FAIL. Anyone who has been on this forum for the past couple of years will have witnessed such reports. I've witnessed a score of animals killed with AccuBonds from a variety of cartridges, and all managed to die pretty quickly. "Partitions won't kill moose cleanly." FAIL. We actually have an outfitter in this area that will not permit any client to use Partitions because he claims they won't kill moose. I've used Partitions on quite a number of head of big game, and the bullets work very well. For Scott S to be taken seriously, he would have to convince me that he measured the correct charge, that he set up his collet die correctly and that he is using the crimp die correctly. Because I have used these dies, and because I have loaded quite a variety of cartridges, I am hard pressed to take such anecdotal accounts seriously. There are too many variables that could account for his difficulty. Moreover, even given that he may have received a bad batch, whether from Nosler, or from any other reputable manufacturer of bullets, a phone call or an E-Mail would have brought swift resolution. We owe it to the shooting fraternity to give those who provide the bullets, brass, primers and powder that we use the opportunity to inspect what we believe to be defective and give us feedback. If they should fail to rectify the situation, perhaps we would then have reason to complain.

 

[SJB358]

Well said Mike. I find it hard to believe either the AB or PT can fail if used within design parameters. I just can't see a company like Nosler really having such a wide variety of variables that could make a "bad" bullet. I can see a PT failing to expand at EXTREME range, possibly if it is below the FPS threshold, but blowing up, can't see it. I have heard of it and it "could" happen, but I I think the probability is REALLY low. Plus, whenever people mention that, they always associate it, is with dead game and usually big game. Same for the AB's. I think they could mushroom alot and shed alot of mushroom and the exit be a small, but pencil through, I doubt it.

Like you, I take the negatives in comments like those very lightly. Same for all bullets. They are good comments and I really like to read them, they are informative, but more times than not, you can tell when a comment is going to be bad when it is based on unsound reloading practices. Scotty

 

[Guest]

Dr. Mike,
You said it so well, I agree too.

Let's talk about how many millions of bullets Nosler has sold and how many have been shot in years of business. If there ever was a failure, what were the successes vs failure rate percentage wise?

Give the bullet manufacturers a break. Typically failures result from Human error. Incorrect loading procedures, pressing & exceeding the load criteria, taking shots they never should have in the first place, on & on it goes.

Like I posted on another thread here, My Elk hunting buddy in Colorado has taken an enormous amount of Elk in his years hunting with 180 Partitions from a 300 Win Mag. Never has he had a failure. Just tremendous results, one shot kills.

You have to apply the correct bullet to the Game Hunted too.

Don

 

[Antelope_Sniper]

Nosler did have a failure. The first year the BT's came out, Circa 1984-85, the jackets were too thin, and they would blow up and fail to enter the vitals. They listened to their customers, redesigned the bullet, and fixed the problem. Now the BT is a solid deer slaying bullet.