COAL restriction due to mag length....

[chet]

am I the only one that hates this?

I'm in the middle of developing loads for two rifles

example #1
M70 223
50grain BT
measured with bullet comparator (on the ogive)
1.915" touches the lands
magazine restricts to 1.860"
thats a .055" jump to the lands.....
would like to try closer, but single shot is not an option!
.055" I can live with.... for now

example #2
84M 308
150grain BT
measured with bullet comparator (on the ogive)
2.301" touches the lands
magazine restricts to 2.170"

:shock: THATS .131" SEATED BACK!!!!! :shock:

I HATE IT!

Yes, I'm going to try them both and see how they shoot
and yes, I know I may be able to change bullets and find one that has a fatter face that might fit the throat a little better. I just feel like ranting on about this kimber's free-bore.

thanks
I feel better now
:twisted:

 

[Richracer1]

Don't feel bad a lot of us are restricted by the magazine. For example, anyone with a RUM has this issue. Start with a COL that will properly cycle through your magazine and go from there. It really isn't that big of a deal, you'll find where your rifle likes it.

 

[Polaris]

I have this problem with my .280 rem mauser, but then I knew what I was getting into with that one. Still no worries as it groups most loads into 1" or so even with a bit of jump.

There is an answer... Buy a couple of surplus Mauser 98 actions and have a good gunsmith rebarel them to your choice of short to medium action rounds e.g. 22-250, 243, 257 roberts, 260 rem, 7mm-o8, 284 win, 308 win, 338-08, 358 win. You'll have plenty of mag room, you can even work in some freebore to use extra-long for calibre bullets seated close to the rifling for target shooting and extra-fast "weatherby-like" loads in a lighter bullet, all built around the best rifle action ever designed. that approach might be especially fruitfull in the .260 rem. That '98 action designed for the 7.92X57mm sS round will have plenty of room to spare for all the cartridges above and they make a beautiful, rugged, absolutely reliable classic sporter when finished up right. If you shop around, the base action should cost less than $125 for a good one. I'd recommend Czech or early/ pre-war German or FN mfg.

 

[JD338]

chet

I load my RUM to magazine length, plenty of jump and I shoot sub .5 MOA.
Life is good, no worries.......

JD338

 

[rick smith]

No magic being close to the lands for a hunting/varmint rifle. Starting at the lands or at mag box length, just a place to start load development.Rick.

 

[Bruce Mc]

Have the same problem with my Model 70 7mm rem mag. With 160 ABs it still shoots one hole groups well off the lands. So I guess its not really a "problem".

 

[YoteSmoker]

Bruce I shoot the same rifle and bullets using 62.5 RL-22 sparked by a 215 seated to 3.290". If you don't mind, what is your load?

 

[DrMike]

chet,

Happens all the time. Varying powders and charge will generally permit you to work through a problem. Moving toward the lands is one option, but there are others.

 

[chet]

thanks for the encouragement guys....
I'll be testing these out sunday morning, I'll let you know how it goes

 

[1Shot]

I found this out while doing load work up on many different military rifles that I have. Most have LOOOOOOONG throats. Load the OAL so it works through the magazine and use a Lee Factory Crimp Die on the load. I have run many test on crimped verses non-crimped rounds that were loaded the same and the crimped shot tighter groups in long throat rifles. The only rifle/caliber that I could really see no difference between was with the 96 Swede Mausers in 6.5X55. They have one of the longest throats of all and a 120 or 140 spitzer bullet has to jump a mile and they will shoot little tiny groups.

 

[6mm Remington]

Chet, I have found that to be the case in my 6mm Remington. It is just long enough that it really needs a 3.00 magazine box so you can seat 100 gr. Partitions to 2.860 or slightly longer. My Remington Model 600 limits me to the standard depth of 2.825, where as in my son's Ruger MKII, I've been able to seat them out longer. The 90 gr. E-tips which require some jump before they engage the rifling are seated at 2.840, and still have plenty of jump before they engage the rifling. What is nice about his Ruger is that the magazine length is also longer than Remington's short action.

Idea :roll: The Montana Rifle Company in Kalispell Montana makes their own actions that are a combination of the best features of the Mauser 98 and Winchester Model 70. You CAN order just the action alone from them, and build it how you want from there! Look these folks up on the internet!! :grin:

 

[chet]

6mm, this Kimber is alot like the MRC action
it has a M70 trigger as well as 3-pos safety
and mauser claw CRF
I really like the gun.... and well...... it was free :lol:

So I've been researching these tiny little actions....
all 84m mag boxes are 2.81"
so the 7mm-08, 308, and 338fed will all have that restriction
the 223, 22-250, 243, 257rob should all have ample room to seat where-ever.

another side-note:
during break-in I was shooting 130 grain speers that I found in my grandpas basement. I'm guessing they were from the 1950's.
they had some tarnish to them, but I didn't care cuz they were for break-in purpposes only. I used between 45 and 46 grains of varget... not measured carefully... again they were just for break-in. I seated them fairly deep, again not worried about accuracy.....
well....the gun never shot over 1.5" groups during the whole break-in process..... do you think thats a good sign of things to come? I do!

 

[6mm Remington]

....the gun never shot over 1.5" groups during the whole break-in process..... do you think thats a good sign of things to come? I do![/quote]

It sure would appear that it's going to be a shooter for sure. I'd be excited too. Now I have never owned a .308 myself, but know from everything I've read that they generally are very accurate and are easy to load for. I have not owned one personally, but in the course of work have shot hundreds of rounds through a Remington heavy barrel .308. We used HSM 168gr. Sierra boattail hollow-points. First time I ever fired it at 500 yards, I put 5 shots into a 4 inch group. :wink:

 

[chet]

my last five shots went about .8" except for one flyer, which was probably me..... if the flyer would have been the foul shot I might be looking for some more of these old speers :lol:
however the foul shot was right in with the group

I think I might lighten the trigger a little too..... it is the lightest rifle I've ever shot and I think the tiniest flinch can really move POI more than any of my other rifles

 

[6mm Remington]

it is the lightest rifle I've ever shot and I think the tiniest flinch can really move POI more than any of my other rifles

The light ones can be like that and you REALLY have to concentrate on form and trigger squeeze. I have one, and had two Remington Model 700 MTN rifles. One in .280 and the other in 25-06. They both shoot great, but I let barrel cool nicely between shots and I really concentrate on my form.

 

[roysclockgun]

Chet wrote: "example #1
M70 223 "

I shoot a Tikka, heavy bbl. "Sporter" in 223Rem. Usually I am doing range work, or shooting prairie dogs. In both cases, it is beneficial to leave the bolt open momentarilly to allow the bbl. to cool. I therefore load the bullets all the way out and feed them single shot style.
If I am after coyote and want a quick follow-up shot, I load the bullets just far enough back to fit into the mag. The coyote present a larger kill area, so no problems with any small loss of accuracy, due to the bullets being seated deeper into the case.
Years ago, I accidently loaded 270Win too long to cycle through an M70 Win. mag and took the cartridges on a mule deer hunt. Knowing precisely where those bullets would impact was more important than was a quick follow-up shot, so I put one cartridge up the tube and carried a second one between my fingers, like a cigar. I put the first bullet into the boiler room of buck, but he was still staggering forward, so I single loaded the second round and put him down for good. Very few hunting scenarios, in which I have found myself, have required a very rapid follow-up shot. Of course, I have never faced dangerous game, but I am not likely to that with 223Rem anyway.
Steven A.

 

[6mm Remington]

roysclockgun
I hunt with two Ruger #1B's and love them. I have never felt handicapped and it makes make sure the first one is a good one, and it's really not that slow to get another round chambered if it is needed!

 

[rick smith]

But why buy a repeater to use as a single shot. Find a load that functions properly. There has been several times when we were culling deer and hogs that a repeater was necessary.Rick.

 

[roysclockgun]

6mm Remington, I cannot agree more. Some years ago, I began leaving my magazine rifles at home and hunting with a Browning B78 in 7mmRemMag. Nothing has run off after being hit. The second round is cocked and locked, by time I have recovered from recoil.
Have recently been working up loads for an E.A.Brown Model 97D single shot rifle in 6mmBRM for Florida deer and pigs.
Due to the fact that very few Americans are subsistance hunters, using a single shot and being more selective in what shots we take adds to the enjoyment of the hunt.
I would not classify anyone according to what rifle action they use to hunt. That said, I would wager that overall, as the speed of the actions increases, the ability to hit what one aims at decreases.....Again, I am not saying that someone who hunts with a semi-auto or pump rifle is not a superior shot. I am saying that if 1000 semi-auto shooters were stacked up against 1000 single shot shooters in a practical shooting match. The single shot shooters would be likely to win.
I realize that a fair number of people who hunt with semi-autos and pumps, can shoot rings around me! But in terms of my own abilities, I am certain that because I am always aware that my rifle contains but one round, I am a better hunter than I would be if I knew that I could rack off five, rapid rounds.
Steven A.

 

[muleman]

Hi Chet,
I have a 84m and a 8400. My 84m is a .308 and it started at 1.25" to 1.5" but with break in and the right load it now shoots .5" to .75" as long as I do my part. Don't worry about the OAL limits; it hasn't bothered mine. With these light barrels you have to watch the heat build up, especially when shooting 5 shot groups. Both my Kimbers are fast handling, light and good shooters - they are even good to look at! Enjoy yours!