Equiptment Advice - getting serious about varmints/predators

[idahohunter8]

Last few years every spring I have headed out here in Idaho and plinked around with a remington 597m .22 with a weaver 2-7x scope at ground squirrels and even the occasional badger and even a coyote or two. Being a big spring bear hunter, varmints really didn't do much for me.

But this year, I have decided to get serious (within my financial budget) and put together a true dedicated longer range varmint rig. I am looking at something heavier with a longer barrel that will be used from bench/prone for these critters that are a ways out there. Plus it would be nice to have a low recoil rifle to practice my general marksmanship with. I am open to any and all feedback as this is not my area of expertise, so here is what I am thinking.

Savage 12fv - 204 ruger, 8.5 pounds, 26" barrel - $420 new at Cabelas
SWFA SS - 10X42, rear focas, MOA, $299
Weaver 6hole steel tactical rings, 1 piece picatinny base.

Right now I plan to find a good fast 55 grain load. Can the 1/12 twist shoot heavier low drag long range bullets? Any other thoughts?

BTW, total budget for rifle, scope, rings/bases is no more than $800.

Thanks
Adam

 

[maverick2]

If the goal is longer range and heavier bullets, you might not get there with a 1:12" twist. Berger recommends a 1:10" twist for their 40-grain .204 bullets, and a 1:7" twist for their 55-grain pills. There's a difference between the recommended "optimum" and what will actually work though, so the 1:12" might work for the 40's, but in the reading I've done, their 55s are at the edge of stability with a 1:9".

I had and shot a .204 for a while, and had a ball with it. I purchased it with the intent of shooting longer ranges with it, and remember looking until I found a rifle with a 1:8" twist for the very reason you're asking. I don't think I shot anything larger than 32-grain bullets, but also didn't stretch it for distance much, so don't have any hands-on experience to relate with the heavier bullets available.

 

[shoots_5]

What is your definition of longer range? Or maybe a better question is how far of a shot do you want to take?

If it were me I'd go with a fast twist 243 and shoot Berger 105 hybrids. Especially if you are taking coyotes at extended ranges.

This would be a decent choice but depending on your elevation and if you can drive the bullet fast enough is still marginal to stabilise the 105 with a 1:9 twist barrel....but I'm unaware of a factory rifle that has a 1:8 or faster barrel.
http://www.cabelas.com/product/RUGER-AM ... 872705.uts


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[idahohunter8]

Right now I plan to find a good fast 55 grain load. Can the 1/12 twist shoot heavier low drag long range bullets? Any other thoughts?

WHOOPS.....I had intermingled some info...the 55 grain loads were IF I went with a 22-250 - which is not available...

I would plan to shoot the 40 grain loads in the .204 - long shots would be 3-400 yards but mainly for sage rats - very few 3-400 yard coyote shots.

I do however want to have a reliable "dial in" type scope which is why I was thinking he SWFA SS 10X....Not sure there is a scope with better eternals for dialing at that $299 price point.

 

[Thebear_78]

The super chickens are great at that price point! I have a couple of them. The zerostop shims work well in them also. If 400 yards is on the long end I would look hard to one of the many 1-8 or 1-9 twist 223s on the market. The 22-250 is another good one but severely hampered by the slow factory twist rate.


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[SJB358]

I'd look at the Ruger RAR 223 8 twist or RAR 22-250 10 twist.

I really like the SWFA SS scopes. That 10x might be perfect for your needs. I've got a 223 and it slings the 77 Sierra Tipped MKs like a dream.

 

[Thebear_78]

Not a bad way to go at all


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[maverick2]

I would plan to shoot the 40 grain loads in the .204 - long shots would be 3-400 yards but mainly for sage rats - very few 3-400 yard coyote shots.

It's kind of "luck of the draw" as to whether the factory 1:12" twist barrels will stabilize the 39 and 40-grain .204s. Some shoot them great, and some don't (and it's not consistent with a given manufacturer.)

 

[cloverleaf]

I know nothing except what I've read in the "rags" about the 204. Sounds like fun! Twist might be an issue in the 22-250, not knowledgeable enough about that either. I will venture this: In 30 plus years of unsuccessfully trying to punch my ticket on a coyote (yes - I havent yet....that's shameful for a kid from SD....but Ive never missed one either ) I know this. The ones that stand around while you adjust a scope or figure the drift and holdover were dead 100 years ago. I would go for a fast handling rifle, no heavy barrel, w/ a good trigger and a stock that fits you like it grew there. I know that the plan is to see them far enough out that you have a chance to "get on" them but there is a real advantage to a wide field of view. Maybe a 3-9 with a hold over reticle like the Nikon. Guy has shot a few with a 25-06 and a straight 6x I believe. That sounds really good to me. (Unless you had a 250 Savage :roll: :lol: :lol: :grin: ) Just my .02. But hey what do I know? I havent shot one yet Good reason to get out though. Have fun! What kind of caller are you using? CL

 

[nvbroncrider]

Don't forget the Ruger MKII V/T mine in 22-250 is a tack driver great trigger too. I picked mine up for a steal with a Nikon 6-18 Buckmasters on it never shot for $600.

 

[maverick2]

If I was looking for a .204 and had it to do over again, I'd probably buy the Thompson Center Venture. They offer the .204 in couple different models -- all with 1:10" twist. Can be found from $475 (blued sporter barrel) to $550 (camo finish, fluted barrel). I have TCs precursor to the Venture (the Icon) in a 6.5 Creedmoor, and it's a great rifle -- EXTREMELY accurate. Great trigger and barrel. I know the Venture uses the same barrel (and I believe the same trigger and action) as the Icon, so would expect this to shoot very, very well. This rifle should shoot the 40+ gr bullets better than the 1:12" .204 barrels.

 

[IdahoCTD]

I would start at a .243 with 105 Amax's if I was looking at long range varmints. A Remington 700 Varmint would be what I'd look for. I have one I punched out to 243AI and it shoots 5 105 Amax's into 1/2" at 3250fps..

 

[Guy Miner]

Absolutely love the little .204 Ruger!

Recoil is minimal, almost nothing. Which is really nice when varmint shooting, as it's easy to see the bullet impact on target... :twisted:

You really won't have to worry about bullet drop much, to 300 yards anyway. Muzzle velocities of 3700 - 4100 fps are very realistic, depending on bullet weight. Zeroed at 300 yards, I just hold on the critter at 100, 200, or 300 yards, and a little bit of holdover takes care of things to 400 yards.

I can't say that I've got a favorite, 32's, 35's, or 40's. All have shot well from my CZ rifle. I'm using an older 12x Leupold with fine, tapered crosshairs. Very nice for varmint work. It has target turrets on it, and I thought I'd be using those a lot. Nope. Sighted it in at 300 and just have been shooting stuff ever since, don't even bother with the turrets.

Nice little cartridge, without much powder consumption. Results on sage rats, prairie dogs, and rockchucks are impressive!

Regards, Guy

 

[Wyo7200]

Here's my data for 22-250, .223, and .204 for comparison, just for thought...

 

[257 Ackley]

I had a Cooper .204 with a 12 twist, that would not stabilize 40 grain pills. I didn't get the acrobatics/splat factor with the lighter bullets either, so it was sold.

My choice would be a .223 with at least an 8 twist (prefer 7) so you can shoot everything up to 80 grain bullets. My LRPV will shoot the 80 grain full bore berger bullet into 3" consistently at 500 yards if the wind isn't too bad. That's off a bipod and rear squeeze bag. We all know it never blows in those western states though....

The heavy, high BC bullets make up for what they don't have in speed compared to the 204 when distance and wind are a factor.

I know a couple guys who have purchased used varmint rigs from this company for less than half of what the components/gunsmithing cost. http://theshooterscorner.com/
Look in the varmint rig section. Good luck

 

[maverick2]

I had a Cooper .204 with a 12 twist, that would not stabilize 40 grain pills. I didn't get the acrobatics/splat factor with the lighter bullets either, so it was sold.

My choice would be a .223 with at least an 8 twist (prefer 7) so you can shoot everything up to 80 grain bullets. My LRPV will shoot the 80 grain full bore berger bullet into 3" consistently at 500 yards if the wind isn't too bad. That's off a bipod and rear squeeze bag. We all know it never blows in those western states though....

The heavy, high BC bullets make up for what they don't have in speed compared to the 204 when distance and wind are a factor.

I know a couple guys who have purchased used varmint rigs from this company for less than half of what the components/gunsmithing cost. http://theshooterscorner.com/
Look in the varmint rig section. Good luck

Seems like about 1/3 of the 12 twist .204's I'm aware of struggle to shoot the 39s/40s, so you're experience is not too far out of the norm. I've not heard too many that didn't get pretty dramatic acrobatics with the 32 gr pills, so that's a bit surprising.

I've had both a .223 and a .204, and it's a tossup for me which caliber I'd choose again for a rifle to be used on varmints and coyotes inside of 400 yds. That choice would probably be made by whichever one I found first that had the configuration I was looking for (action, barrel weight/length/twist, and stock) rather than the caliber. Both calibers are a pleasure to shoot a lot of rounds thru in any one sitting.

By the way, thanks for sharing the website for the Shooters Corner -- great place to browse! (And by sharing that, you can cross off any hopes you ever had of getting on to my wife's Christmas Card list...)

 

[idahohunter8]

Thanks for all the advise...I think I have decided on the rifle...Going to go with a Ruger American .223 with the 1/8 twist 22" barrel. I plan to shoot 50,53,55 grain bullets depending what shoots best. I have kind of been drawn to the idea of a "lighter, walking varminter" setup.

Still not sure about scope...To legitimately shoot to as far as 400 yards, I prefer a "dial up scope". Still thinking about a 10x SWFA SS, Could also pick up a 3-9x40 zeiss conquest (I have 3 already and love them) but not the most practical for 400 yard whistle pig shooting...Maybe the special priced Meopta 3.5-10x44 from cameraland?

 

[Thebear_78]

I think you made a good choice, the super chicken in 10 or 12x would be great for long range song dogs but might be too much for snap shots on called yotes.

Don't overlook the 65-75gr bullets for longer range. They hold energy and drift much less for long shots


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[maverick2]

Thanks for all the advise...I think I have decided on the rifle...Going to go with a Ruger American .223 with the 1/8 twist 22" barrel. I plan to shoot 50,53,55 grain bullets depending what shoots best. I have kind of been drawn to the idea of a "lighter, walking varminter" setup.

Still not sure about scope...To legitimately shoot to as far as 400 yards, I prefer a "dial up scope". Still thinking about a 10x SWFA SS, Could also pick up a 3-9x40 zeiss conquest (I have 3 already and love them) but not the most practical for 400 yard whistle pig shooting...Maybe the special priced Meopta 3.5-10x44 from cameraland?

Nice choice -- That ought to work! I think you'll like the medium weight 22" barrel a lot more than the heavy 26" of the Savage -- the Ruger with the 22" barrel will be balanced a lot better.

As far as scope, can you get the Meopta and Zeiss scopes you noted with exposed turrets for dialing elevation, or are they the capped "set them and forget them" adjustments? If not, you might find the SS 10x to be your best choice with your budget . It's got pretty good glass (which you'll want/need for varmints), very good and repeatable target turrets for easy adjustment, and a mil-dot reticle that helps you with holdovers if you don't want to "dial". About the only thing it lacks is variable power, but any scope you choose is going to lack something.

 

[SJB358]

I think you made a good choice, the super chicken in 10 or 12x would be great for long range song dogs but might be too much for snap shots on called yotes.

Don't overlook the 65-75gr bullets for longer range. They hold energy and drift much less for long shots


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I'm with him. A 10X SS would work well and dials like a dream. Also agree with him. Try some of the 69 or 77 grain Sierra TMKs. Amaxs are too long for the mag. You'll like the RAR.