firmer bolt closing with reloads?

[Waldo]

As a bit of a follow up to another thread in regards to COAL in 30/06's I have set my 165AB to 3.340 COAL. When comparing the "feel" of closing the bolt in comparison to soem factory rounds I have laying around it is a "bit" firmer. Still closes OK but definately firmer, is there a chance that 3.340" COAL is a bit long in this instance?

I've never really bothered on finding the lands on other calibres just set to recomended COAL and everythings been fine.

Cheers,
Waldo

 

[pre6422hornet]

Did you just neck size the reloads? Once fired brass will be tighter than factory ammo.

If you loaded to the point of touching the lands of the rifling, you will be able to see the marks on the bullet. I would look at that first.

 

[Waldo]

Did you just neck size the reloads? Once fired brass will be tighter than factory ammo.

If you loaded to the point of touching the lands of the rifling, you will be able to see the marks on the bullet. I would look at that first.

The rounds were full length resized (Lee pacesetter dies), the feeding of the round feels very similar it's just the downward action of closing that is firmer.

There is a slight mark on the projectile but I'm not sure if it's not just from the reloading process or the rifling. I was thinking of trying what some refer to as a sharpie which I assume is either a permanent marker or whiteboard marker, not sure which one though?

Thanks for the feedback.


Cheers,
Waldo

 

[jmad_81]

I would think that either would work, but I use the permanent marker.

 

[JD338]

Try seating a bullet deeper by 1/2 turn on the seating plunger and see how it chambers.

JD338

 

[Ridge_Runner]

if its rifleing marks it will have 3,4, or 6 marks on the bullet, if it were me I would screw the sizing die down a touch farther (1/16th turn) and load another one and see if it changes.
RR

 

[Waldo]

I have just been pondering and testing a few things.

Tried colouring the projectile and shell down to the shoulder with a black permanent marker, let it dry chambered it and it came out pretty well unmarked with only one very slight short line just up near the tip.

Pondered a bit further and noticed the base of the reloaded rounds looked a little different with a very slight shoulder type look ahesad of the rim. Then grabbed an un-fired factory Rem Coreloct round and measured the base of the brass up about 1/2 inch from the rim and it went .462". Measured a fired Rem Coreloct and it measured .468", measured my reloads and they went .466".

Perhaps the factory rounds are just a bit loose and the reloads may be right?

Safe to assume the factory loads are just a tad undersize to ensure the feed in everything?

Cheers,
Waldo

 

[Waldo]

Well, I have kind of identified the problem but not solved it.

I had 40 rounds of brass preped and primed, 20 of these were loaded. A couple I grabbed this morning were random firm ones plus when I fed thru all the rounds I found a couple that would just not allow the bolt to close at all! The rest felt OK.

Went thru the remaining preped brass and found another couple that wouldn't feed properly either, dimensionally all looked good but they just wouldn't let the bolt close.

In the end out 40 rounds I ended up with 6 that wouldn't permit the bolt to close (1/2 of these were loaded rounds, 1/2 primed only). Pulled the loaded rounds, deprimed and re-sized, trimed (if needed), chamfered and they still wouldn't allow the bolt to close, mmmm. In the end just bagged them and sat them aside, too hot to bother stuffing around with them.

A bit wierd all once fired Remington factory brass thru this rifle only.

Cheers,
Waldo

 

[Wincheringen]

You can take the decapping pin out of the die and slide a feeler gauge under the brass in the shellholder and size one that would not chamber and see if this makes a difference.

If that works you can also buy a small base die set that will return the cases to minimum dimensions. It appears you have a tight chamber.

 

[CatskillCrawler]

Did you use the correct shell holder when you resized these rounds?

 

[onesonek]

I will agree on is begining to sound like a tight chamber. If so, it only take a couple .0001's to make things bind up in the neck tolerence. One could slug the neck and throat of the chamber. That will give you answers but not fix. However, one could go by process of ilimination and get their also. With that started, I would turn the necks if nothing else as to uniform them. If length all seems right, it would be the next step for me. Then again, I would like to have more measurements to know more. Could be dies in general, like the Small Base possibily needed. Tight chambers if that be the case. are a bit fickle at times to get all set, but usually perform to high standards in the end.

 

[Oldtrader3]

Do you have a gauge, like the RCBS Case Master? Without located and measuring the datum of your case, you do not have any dimensional baseline in terms of case dimensions. You could be feeling the residual neck diameter which has not been sized down near the shoulder or you could have your die set, set up wrong and actually be moving your shoulder forward which would create feel on closing the bolt. Without seeing your setup or your having a gauge to measure headspace, it is difficult to know.

 

[Charlie-NY]

Do you have a gauge, like the RCBS Case Master? Without located and measuring the datum of your case, you do not have any dimensional beseline in terms of case dimensions. You could be feeling the residual neck diameter which has not been sized down near the shoulder or you could have your die set, set up worng and actually be moving your shoulder forward which would create feel on closing the bolt. Without seeing your setup or your having a gauge to measure headspace, it is difficult to know.

I think OT3 is on the right track. It sounds like your sizing operation is moving the shoulder forward. Two things can cause this that I am familiar with:
1. improper die adjustment - the sizing die may need to be lowered (if possible w/o damaging the die body) It would be helpful to have an OAL gauge that measures off the shoulder so that the results of die adjustment can be accurately measured/determined. Setting the sizer die deeper will lengthen the base to shoulder dimension until the shoulder is physically pushed back by the die.
2. pulling shoulders forward - dragging an expander ball up through a neck that is not adequately cleaned and lubed will occasionally pull the shoulder up slightly. Ask me how I know. I use bushing dies now and never use expander balls, thus, eliminating the possibility of this happening. However, bushing dies are NOT necessary to prevent the problem. If your expander ball is hard to pull back through the neck after sizing then I'd be looking closely for the cause.

 

[Oldtrader3]

I operated without a Case Master for 40+ years and had no clue where my reloads were actually sitting in terms of dimensions. I never had any issues with my handloads but always worried about belted cases and chambers dimension's matching. The only way to actually know is to measure case datums and go from there. Fortunately, most of us are only missing optimum headspace by a few thousands and it is not critical except maybe for that last scintilla of accuracy.

Having been an engineer, inquiring minds want to know! So, I finally bought a gauge and now I know. Along with it, I bought several Forster FL sizing dies and set them up to be dead nuts (-.001) on headspacing. I still have a little "feel" closing the bolt but it is from the necks not bad headspace.

 

[Waldo]

Thanks again for the comments guy's, appreciate it.

I'll work on a couple of those items mentioned and see how it goes, anyway no "total fire ban" today as the weather has cooled so off to the range to test the ones that do feed.

Real keen to see how the 165 accubonds go.

Cheers,
Waldo

 

[Waldo]

Managed to get to the range today, put some 56g, 57g and 58g loads downrange. Ended up with a 1.3" 3 shot group at 100 yards so not too bad for a start. POI for 57 & 58g loads was bugger all so I may run some at 57.5g just to get a bit more speed out of it, no signs of stress at all at 58g.

Forgot to take my rear rest so was using a toilet roll, must have looked a bit wierd? I reckon I should be able to get it down to a 1" group with a better rest and my old Redfield scope (30+ years old) wasn't real clear either so it may be past it's use by date.

Cheers,
Waldo

 

[Oldtrader3]

Too bad about your Redfield. My Illuminator Redfield is from about 1980 is still going strong. I would have thought that I had leaked out all of the nitrogen by now but it is still as clear as many new scipes.

 

[Waldo]

Pretty sure my old Redfield is late 70's so it's done pretty good service. I brought it for a Sako .17Rem back when I as an apprentice, that rig cost me a heap back then but as a youngster I didn't really care.

The tracking seems to have gone haywire too, went 6 clicks to the left and it moved about 4-5 inches! Pity to see it retired.

Cheers,
Waldo

 

[Oldtrader3]

Waldo, if you think that it is worth it, you can get the name of a shop fom Leupold that will go through it and fix what ever is wrong. I really like my Illuminator and it is very capable but I have reservations about putting money into a 30 year old scope.

 

[RiverRider]

I think that it's most likely the difficultyit has to do with the sizing die or it's adjustment, but I would verify that a bullet will freely fall through the neck of a fired case just to be sure the neck is not too tight. Another possibility is something out of round---either the chamber itself or the sizing die's body.

I suppose it's also possible the brass could be too soft and the area around the web could be swelling more than it should.