floatplane rifle; looking for info on 450 bushmaster

[salmonchaser]

I have a 450 bushmaster I carry on fly out trips. I would like to start loading for it using better bullets than hornady flex tips. The bushmaster uses .452 bullets. Any info greatly appreciated.
Donald

 

[DrMike]

That would be quite the rifle. Here's a bit of data.

Cartridge          : .450 Bushmaster
Bullet             : .452, 300, DKT FNSP #820
Useable Case Capaci: 51.153 grain H2O = 3.321 cm³
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 2.260 inch = 57.40 mm
Barrel Length      : 20.0 inch = 508.0 mm

Predicted Data for Indicated Charges of the Following Powders.
Matching Maximum Pressure: 38000 psi, or 262 MPa
or a maximum loading ratio or filling of 110 %
These calculations refer to your specified settings in QuickLOAD 'Cartridge Dimensions' window.
C A U T I O N : any load listed can result in a powder charge that falls below minimum suggested
loads or exceeds maximum suggested loads as presented in current handloading manuals. Understand
that all of the listed powders can be unsuitable for the given combination of cartridge, bullet
and gun. Actual load order can vary, depending upon lot-to-lot powder and component variations.
USE ONLY FOR COMPARISON !

Powder type          Filling/Loading Ratio  Charge    Charge   Vel. Prop.Burnt P max  P muzz  B_Time
                                      %     Grains    Gramm   fps     %       psi     psi    ms
---------------------------------  -----------------------------------------------------------------
Lovex D073.5                       108.0     54.7     3.54    2046    84.2    38000    4249   1.208  ! Near Maximum !
Accurate 2460                      107.7     54.7     3.54    2046    84.2    38000    4249   1.208  ! Near Maximum !
Norma 201                          109.9     52.9     3.43    2035    82.7    38000    4241   1.216  ! Near Maximum !
Hodgdon BL-C2                      110.0     56.6     3.67    2015    79.7    37003    4329   1.221  ! Near Maximum !
Rottweil R901                      110.0     49.3     3.19    1995    85.6    34849    4177   1.274  ! Near Maximum !
Accurate 2520                      110.0     54.7     3.54    1987    82.2    33909    4258   1.256  ! Near Maximum !
SNPE Vectan SP 7                   110.0     55.6     3.61    1948    74.0    36400    3890   1.246  ! Near Maximum !

Cartridge          : .450 Bushmaster
Bullet             : .452, 300, DKT FNSP #820
Useable Case Capaci: 51.153 grain H2O = 3.321 cm³
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 2.260 inch = 57.40 mm
Barrel Length      : 20.0 inch = 508.0 mm
Powder             : Accurate 2520

Predicted data by increasing and decreasing the given charge,
incremented in steps of 2.0% of nominal charge.
CAUTION: Figures exceed maximum and minimum recommended loads !

Step    Fill. Charge   Vel.  Energy   Pmax   Pmuz  Prop.Burnt B_Time
 %       %    Grains   fps   ft.lbs    psi    psi      %        ms

-20.0   91    45.20   1584    1672   18734   3130     68.2    1.626
-18.0   93    46.33   1629    1768   20017   3267     70.0    1.579
-16.0   95    47.46   1675    1869   21411   3405     71.7    1.533
-14.0   98    48.59   1721    1974   22926   3543     73.4    1.487
-12.0  100    49.72   1769    2084   24577   3680     75.0    1.443
-10.0  102    50.85   1817    2200   26380   3816     76.7    1.399
-08.0  105    51.98   1866    2320   28352   3949     78.3    1.356
-06.0  107    53.11   1916    2446   30516   4080     80.0    1.314
-04.0  109    54.24   1967    2577   32895   4208     81.5    1.272
-02.0  111    55.37   2018    2714   35518   4332     83.1    1.232  ! Near Maximum !
+00.0  114    56.50   2071    2857   38421   4451     84.6    1.192  ! Near Maximum !
+02.0  116    57.63   2124    3005   41645   4565     86.1    1.151  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+04.0  118    58.76   2178    3160   45237   4673     87.5    1.112  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+06.0  120    59.89   2233    3321   49263   4774     88.9    1.074  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+08.0  123    61.02   2288    3489   53784   4866     90.2    1.036  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+10.0  125    62.15   2345    3664   58916   4950     91.5    1.000  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!

Results caused by ± 10% powder lot-to-lot burning rate variation using nominal charge
Data for burning rate increased by 10% relative to nominal value:
+Ba    114    56.50   2237    3335   47418   4720     93.2    1.085  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Data for burning rate decreased by 10% relative to nominal value:
-Ba    114    56.50   1873    2336   30931   3941     72.7    1.323

There aren't all that many .452 bullets manufactured. Lots of .451, which may work for you. I wonder if you could get either Hawk or Alaska Bullet Works to produce some.

This load would be compressed, but it might be acceptable to you.

Cartridge          : .450 Bushmaster
Bullet             : .451, 260, Nosler PART HP 45260
Useable Case Capaci: 50.421 grain H2O = 3.274 cm³
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 2.260 inch = 57.40 mm
Barrel Length      : 20.0 inch = 508.0 mm
Powder             : Accurate 2460

Predicted data by increasing and decreasing the given charge,
incremented in steps of 2.0% of nominal charge.
CAUTION: Figures exceed maximum and minimum recommended loads !

Step    Fill. Charge   Vel.  Energy   Pmax   Pmuz  Prop.Burnt B_Time
 %       %    Grains   fps   ft.lbs    psi    psi      %        ms

-20.0   91    45.60   1632    1538   16767   2884     63.5    1.604
-18.0   93    46.74   1682    1633   18082   3015     65.3    1.553
-16.0   96    47.88   1733    1734   19522   3147     67.0    1.503
-14.0   98    49.02   1784    1838   21097   3278     68.8    1.455
-12.0  100    50.16   1837    1948   22832   3409     70.5    1.406
-10.0  103    51.30   1890    2063   24740   3539     72.3    1.357
-08.0  105    52.44   1945    2183   26844   3667     74.0    1.308
-06.0  107    53.58   2000    2309   29175   3792     75.7    1.261
-04.0  109    54.72   2056    2440   31763   3915     77.4    1.216
-02.0  112    55.86   2113    2577   34646   4035     79.0    1.172  ! Near Maximum !
+00.0  114    57.00   2171    2720   37868   4150     80.6    1.130  ! Near Maximum !
+02.0  116    58.14   2230    2870   41498   4261     82.2    1.088  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+04.0  119    59.28   2290    3026   45590   4366     83.8    1.048  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+06.0  121    60.42   2351    3190   50241   4465     85.3    1.009  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+08.0  123    61.56   2413    3361   55553   4557     86.7    0.971  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+10.0  125    62.70   2476    3541   61666   4640     88.2    0.934  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!

Results caused by ± 10% powder lot-to-lot burning rate variation using nominal charge
Data for burning rate increased by 10% relative to nominal value:
+Ba    114    57.00   2349    3186   47960   4458     89.6    1.024  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Data for burning rate decreased by 10% relative to nominal value:
-Ba    114    57.00   1961    2220   29748   3660     69.0    1.266

 

[nvbroncrider]

Have you looked at the 458 SOCOM? Very similar as far as design.

 

[salmonchaser]

Dr. Mike et All; Thanks for the feed back, here is a little info on how I have the rifle set up. First of all the 450 bushmaster would not be my first choice for hunting the great bears. I have this one set up with a collapsible stock, backup irons, reflex sight and a tactical sling. While I have carried and still use my 870, 45/70 guide gun, or the 454 casull, the bushmaster has become the first choice of all our guides for a couple of reasons, problem is we only have one. Performance puts the round between the 454 and the 45/70, so it's in the adequate range for bear protection. Most of the guides can fire 8 to 10 accurate rounds from the bushmaster in the same time they can fire 2 or 3 from the 45/70. The best thing about the rifle is with the stock collapsed it is the same length as a Ruger 10/22. The sling I use keeps the rifle tight to my chest. I can get on my knees to release fish, tye leaders, or any other chores. I'm never tempted to put it down to do anything.
So far it has done it's job, but I think a tougher bullet would make me more comfortable.

I noticed you showed a 451 diameter bullet in the info you sent. I wondered if the difference 451/452 would make much difference at the range I would be using the rifle.

Thanks
Don

 

[DrMike]

I noticed you showed a 451 diameter bullet in the info you sent. I wondered if the difference 451/452 would make much difference at the range I would be using the rifle.

Thanks
Don

Maybe it would and maybe not. It depends on tolerances of the barrel. I would be inclined to try some, just to see what came of them.

Load up some 260 grain PTs and see what they do in the rifle. It would cost a box of bullets and some powder.

Cartridge          : .450 Bushmaster
Bullet             : .451, 260, Nosler PART HP 45260
Useable Case Capaci: 50.415 grain H2O = 3.273 cm³
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 2.260 inch = 57.40 mm
Barrel Length      : 20.0 inch = 508.0 mm
Powder             : Alliant Reloder-10x

Predicted data by increasing and decreasing the given charge,
incremented in steps of 2.0% of nominal charge.
CAUTION: Figures exceed maximum and minimum recommended loads !

Step    Fill. Charge   Vel.  Energy   Pmax   Pmuz  Prop.Burnt B_Time
 %       %    Grains   fps   ft.lbs    psi    psi      %        ms

-20.0   91    40.00   1761    1791   19041   3247     77.6    1.504
-18.0   94    41.00   1809    1889   20392   3373     79.2    1.459
-16.0   96    42.00   1857    1991   21843   3496     80.7    1.416
-14.0   98    43.00   1905    2096   23405   3618     82.2    1.373
-12.0  100    44.00   1954    2204   25086   3737     83.7    1.330
-10.0  103    45.00   2003    2316   26897   3853     85.1    1.289
-08.0  105    46.00   2052    2430   28850   3967     86.5    1.250
-06.0  107    47.00   2101    2548   30966   4076     87.8    1.212
-04.0  109    48.00   2150    2669   33251   4182     89.1    1.175
-02.0  112    49.00   2200    2794   35723   4282     90.3    1.140  ! Near Maximum !
+00.0  114    50.00   2250    2922   38413   4379     91.4    1.106  ! Near Maximum !
+02.0  116    51.00   2299    3052   41331   4469     92.5    1.073  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+04.0  119    52.00   2349    3186   44511   4554     93.5    1.041  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+06.0  121    53.00   2399    3324   47979   4633     94.4    1.010  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+08.0  123    54.00   2450    3464   51771   4705     95.3    0.980  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+10.0  125    55.00   2500    3608   55928   4770     96.1    0.951  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!

Results caused by ± 10% powder lot-to-lot burning rate variation using nominal charge
Data for burning rate increased by 10% relative to nominal value:
+Ba    114    50.00   2394    3310   47716   4485     97.4    1.015  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Data for burning rate decreased by 10% relative to nominal value:
-Ba    114    50.00   2069    2471   30637   4048     81.7    1.223

 

[SJB358]

I would also take a look at these..

http://www.midwayusa.com/product/555362 ... -box-of-50

I would think these Swift A-Frame's at 325 grains would penetrate really well.. I am not sure if Nosler still makes a 260 PT's for the .451's either..

I would also take a look at Beartooth Bullets, if you don't see what you want, give Marshall a call.. He should be able to help you out as well. He makes premium cast bullets as well.

Good luck, hope you try the Swift's, would love to hear how they work for you.

 

[DrMike]

Scotty has a good suggestion. The 325 A-Frame would be a great bullet when needing to dissuade an angry bruin from feasting on your leg.

Cartridge          : .450 Bushmaster
Bullet             : .452, 325, Swift A-F/HP
Useable Case Capaci: 46.457 grain H2O = 3.016 cm³
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 2.260 inch = 57.40 mm
Barrel Length      : 20.0 inch = 508.0 mm
Powder             : IMR 8208 XBR

Predicted data by increasing and decreasing the given charge,
incremented in steps of 2.0% of nominal charge.
CAUTION: Figures exceed maximum and minimum recommended loads !

Step    Fill. Charge   Vel.  Energy   Pmax   Pmuz  Prop.Burnt B_Time
 %       %    Grains   fps   ft.lbs    psi    psi      %        ms

-20.0   90    38.56   1496    1614   19165   2733     68.3    1.703
-18.0   92    39.52   1535    1701   20497   2846     69.8    1.653
-16.0   95    40.49   1576    1792   21926   2958     71.3    1.605
-14.0   97    41.45   1617    1886   23462   3071     72.7    1.557
-12.0   99    42.42   1658    1983   25112   3183     74.2    1.510
-10.0  101    43.38   1699    2083   26889   3294     75.6    1.465
-08.0  104    44.34   1741    2187   28805   3404     77.0    1.421
-06.0  106    45.31   1783    2294   30872   3513     78.4    1.379
-04.0  108    46.27   1826    2405   33108   3620     79.7    1.338
-02.0  110    47.24   1869    2520   35526   3725     81.0    1.298  ! Near Maximum !
+00.0  113    48.20   1912    2638   38151   3828     82.3    1.260  ! Near Maximum !
+02.0  115    49.16   1955    2759   41003   3928     83.6    1.223  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+04.0  117    50.13   1999    2885   44108   4025     84.8    1.187  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+06.0  119    51.09   2044    3015   47498   4119     86.0    1.152  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+08.0  122    52.06   2089    3148   51208   4209     87.2    1.118  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+10.0  124    53.02   2134    3286   55279   4295     88.3    1.086  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!

Results caused by ± 10% powder lot-to-lot burning rate variation using nominal charge
Data for burning rate increased by 10% relative to nominal value:
+Ba    113    48.20   2045    3018   45998   4087     90.4    1.161  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Data for burning rate decreased by 10% relative to nominal value:
-Ba    113    48.20   1757    2228   31197   3430     72.1    1.385

Cartridge          : .450 Bushmaster
Bullet             : .452, 325, Swift A-F/HP
Useable Case Capaci: 46.457 grain H2O = 3.016 cm³
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 2.260 inch = 57.40 mm
Barrel Length      : 20.0 inch = 508.0 mm
Powder             : Hodgdon BL-C2

Predicted data by increasing and decreasing the given charge,
incremented in steps of 2.0% of nominal charge.
CAUTION: Figures exceed maximum and minimum recommended loads !

Step    Fill. Charge   Vel.  Energy   Pmax   Pmuz  Prop.Burnt B_Time
 %       %    Grains   fps   ft.lbs    psi    psi      %        ms

-20.0   91    42.56   1461    1540   17767   2793     63.5    1.756
-18.0   93    43.62   1504    1633   19104   2926     65.2    1.701
-16.0   96    44.69   1548    1730   20557   3060     67.0    1.648
-14.0   98    45.75   1593    1832   22138   3193     68.8    1.596
-12.0  100    46.82   1639    1939   23864   3327     70.5    1.543
-10.0  102    47.88   1686    2051   25750   3461     72.2    1.490
-08.0  105    48.94   1733    2168   27817   3593     73.9    1.440
-06.0  107    50.01   1781    2290   30083   3724     75.6    1.391
-04.0  109    51.07   1830    2418   32586   3852     77.3    1.344
-02.0  112    52.14   1880    2551   35348   3979     78.9    1.298  ! Near Maximum !
+00.0  114    53.20   1931    2691   38410   4101     80.5    1.253  ! Near Maximum !
+02.0  116    54.26   1982    2836   41820   4220     82.1    1.210  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+04.0  118    55.33   2035    2988   45630   4335     83.7    1.168  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+06.0  121    56.39   2088    3147   49911   4444     85.2    1.127  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+08.0  123    57.46   2143    3313   54746   4547     86.6    1.087  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+10.0  125    58.52   2198    3487   60238   4643     88.1    1.048  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!

Results caused by ± 10% powder lot-to-lot burning rate variation using nominal charge
Data for burning rate increased by 10% relative to nominal value:
+Ba    114    53.20   2091    3155   46839   4438     89.8    1.142  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Data for burning rate decreased by 10% relative to nominal value:
-Ba    114    53.20   1746    2199   31107   3575     68.6    1.395

Cartridge          : .450 Bushmaster
Bullet             : .452, 325, Swift A-F/HP
Useable Case Capaci: 46.457 grain H2O = 3.016 cm³
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 2.260 inch = 57.40 mm
Barrel Length      : 20.0 inch = 508.0 mm
Powder             : Accurate 2460

Predicted data by increasing and decreasing the given charge,
incremented in steps of 2.0% of nominal charge.
CAUTION: Figures exceed maximum and minimum recommended loads !

Step    Fill. Charge   Vel.  Energy   Pmax   Pmuz  Prop.Burnt B_Time
 %       %    Grains   fps   ft.lbs    psi    psi      %        ms

-20.0   89    40.96   1487    1596   17427   2852     68.9    1.751
-18.0   91    41.98   1531    1692   18767   2973     70.6    1.696
-16.0   93    43.01   1576    1792   20226   3093     72.3    1.643
-14.0   96    44.03   1621    1896   21820   3213     74.0    1.591
-12.0   98    45.06   1666    2004   23562   3332     75.6    1.537
-10.0  100    46.08   1712    2116   25470   3448     77.2    1.485
-08.0  102    47.10   1759    2233   27567   3563     78.8    1.434
-06.0  104    48.13   1806    2355   29875   3675     80.3    1.385
-04.0  107    49.15   1854    2481   32422   3784     81.8    1.337
-02.0  109    50.18   1903    2613   35242   3889     83.3    1.292  ! Near Maximum !
+00.0  111    51.20   1952    2749   38359   3989     84.7    1.247  ! Near Maximum !
+02.0  113    52.22   2001    2891   41867   4085     86.1    1.204  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+04.0  116    53.25   2052    3038   45777   4176     87.5    1.162  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+06.0  118    54.27   2103    3191   50172   4260     88.8    1.122  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+08.0  120    55.30   2154    3350   55140   4338     90.0    1.082  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+10.0  122    56.32   2207    3515   60785   4408     91.2    1.044  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!

Results caused by ± 10% powder lot-to-lot burning rate variation using nominal charge
Data for burning rate increased by 10% relative to nominal value:
+Ba    111    51.20   2100    3182   48856   4205     92.8    1.135  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Data for burning rate decreased by 10% relative to nominal value:
-Ba    111    51.20   1774    2271   29982   3587     73.7    1.394

These are clearly compressed loads, but you should be able to make them work in your Bushmaster.

 

[JD338]

I would also take a look at these..

http://www.midwayusa.com/product/555362 ... -box-of-50

I would think these Swift A-Frame's at 325 grains would penetrate really well.. I am not sure if Nosler still makes a 260 PT's for the .451's either..

I would also take a look at Beartooth Bullets, if you don't see what you want, give Marshall a call.. He should be able to help you out as well. He makes premium cast bullets as well.

Good luck, hope you try the Swift's, would love to hear how they work for you.

Scotty is correct, Nosler no longer offers the .451 260 gr PT. Too bad as it is an excellent bullet that penetrates deep. The Swift 325 gr A Frame would be an excellent choice.

JD338

 

[SJB358]

Dang, that 325 at 1900.. Yeah, I think that would work pretty darned well.. I'd love to see one of them smashed into water jugs, it's gotta be a top performer..

 

[JD338]

I agree, it would be a penetrating power house. I would think it would penetrate 8 jugs.
It would be some serious bear stopping medicine.

JD338

 

[SJB358]

I agree, it would be a penetrating power house. I would think it would penetrate 8 jugs.
It would be some serious bear stopping medicine.

JD338

I was thinking the same Jim.. Hope he tries them and posts up the results.. Love them tests! :grin:

 

[wayno945]

Have you looked at the 458 SOCOM? Very similar as far as design.

I would think the socom would be a better fit due to the fact you can use the same bullets from your 45/70.

 

[Dwh7271]

No material interest, but if you're going to use factory stuff at all, Remington has a 450 Bushmaster loading in their Hog Hammer line that looks pretty good.
Here's an American Hunter article with some ideas and a description:
http://www.americanhunter.org/articles/grown-up-hog-loads

Some ballistics at the bottom of the page at Midway(again, no material interest)
http://www.midwayusa.com/product/11...ock-x-bullet-hollow-point-lead-free-box-of-20

Saw this and thought it might be cool.

Dewey

PS: FWIW, reason I knew this was I have been researching this due to the fact I think I need an AR platform boomer. :grin: Pigs, bears, who knows?
Have been looking at the 450, 458 SOCOM, and 50 Beowulf. Fun stuff.

 

[Woodycreek]

Have you looked at the 458 SOCOM? Very similar as far as design.

I would think the socom would be a better fit due to the fact you can use the same bullets from your 45/70.

And uses standard unmodified AR mags. The 450 and 50 Beowulf both use heavily modified AR mags.

 

[salmonchaser]

Great information I really appreciate the feed back. 458 Socom vs. 450 bushmaster, no argument regarding bullet selection for reloading. At this point however it is what I have, and regardless, the comparative discussion, I need to make it as effective as possible.
Regarding the Remington ammo, I'm going to order some today if I can. I am fond of Barnes bullets using them in both the 454 and the 45/70.
I brought the rifle down with me this winter with the intent to work up some loads. Once again I really appreciate the insight. Just need to find some brass, screwed up and left the brass at the lodge.

 

[SJB358]

Makes sense to me, and if you can get nearly 1900 with that 325 Swift, I am thinking you wouldn't notice any difference in killing ability. That would be a thumper of a rifle.

Good luck with your load work. Keep us in the loop on it. I really think those flat pointed A-Frames should be about as awesome as it gets for penetration till you go to heavy hard cast lead.

 

[salmonchaser]

I just called the winter watchman, he is going to look for my 450 brass next time he goes up to the lodge. I figure I have a 50/50 chance of getting my brass before I go back for the summer. From my perspective penetration with flawless function is the only issue for this rifle. The area we fish has a bell of a lot of grizzly, I've been way to close on many occasions and never take them for granted. The only thing I take for granted is that we are going to see them on any fly out trip. I've pepper sprayed two, and fired a few warning shots. For those planning a trip to alaska, pepper spray works, warning shots simply scared the client. Save your ammo. I'm kind of new to this whole form of communication. I'll download some grizzly pictures next time the granddaughter comes over. I had a client last summer taking pics of a sow and three cubs that simply materialized out of the brush. As I recall the distance was about 15 feet, and we all walked away, albeit in opposite directions.

 

[SJB358]

Wow, that is awesome stuff! Those bears are nothing to mess around with...

Can't wait to see the pictures.

 

[DrMike]

The big bears do merit respect, that's for certain.

 

[JD338]

Thats exciting! 15' from a grizzly sow with cubs is pretty unnerving. Lets see, you have just about enough time to blink and start to wet yourself if she chose to charge! :shock:

JD338