Hunting Ethics Column?

[DrMike]

I wonder if forum members would benefit from a forum on hunting ethics. I know that this can become a "hot" topic, and I know that there are practises that generate valid disagreement. However, in the main, I know that most hunters are ethical, concerned not merely to fulfil the letter of the law, but to show respect for the game and to practise safety when they shoot.

Perhaps such discussions would benefit younger shooters, and help some of older hunters to refresh our conscience and/or hone our ethics.

During the past several weeks, I know that I have passed on several shots because I could not verify what was behind a coyote as it sky lined itself, because I could not verify that a doe did not have fawn(s) [15 minutes of observation was necessary to discover that she did have twins], because I could not verify that a cow elk did not have a calf [she did], and because a legal bull moose was just on the edge of distance required before shooting near a private residence. Undoubtedly, any of the shots were doable, but the results would have been less than satisfying (potentially or actually). Potentially, I could have argued on any of the shots that they were legal, but I doubted they were ethical.

Any interest in a forum on such topics?

 

[bullet]

Hunting ethics - DO WHAT IS RIGHT NOT WHAT YOU FEEL - obey the hunting regulations, don't shoot what you can not for sure identify, don't shoot farther than your cartridge was intended to do by design or farther than you have practiced and know you can hit, use the right bullet construction for what you are hunting, but most of all use some common sense and as I said at the beginning - DO WHAT IS RIGHT NOT WHAT YOU FEEL.

 

[jtoews80]

This is for sure a "hot potato". I'd say it needs to be discussed, but one needs to realize some distictions. There are instances on the farm where it isn't really hunting, but pest control: coyotes or crop damaging deer, elk and black bear. And there are instances where the freezer needs meat and the wallet is empty. Such things are not to be bragged about and best not mentioned often or on a public forum. That is not sport hunting and not what we are talking about.

Sport hunting a term we need to define and then decide the ethos of said sport, it has alot of bearing on how we act afield.

JT.

 

[Bruce Mc]

NO, NO, NO Way, NO How. Bad ju ju!

Who is going to make those distinctions? You can't control the audience or wheter or not they are going to make those distinctions. Only bad can come from those discussion in an open forum like this one.

 

[jtoews80]

I'd say it could be summed up in a basic 5-10 point list.

1: This is our heritage, treat the right to hunt with respect. Don't deface the sport.

2: Consider your game, learn about each species that you hunt and do your best to manage wildlife in a manner that will ensure years of hunting and not become harmful or endanger each specific species.
Learn about their anatomy/biology and what is required to bring them down cleanly, how to call them in & when the young are able to survive alone and/or detect them if you are able to take females.

3: Consider the land you hunt. Consult a municipal or county map to know who owns it and where it is in relation to neighboring property.

Whether it is private farm land or publicly owned land, treat it with respect and don't leave a trail of garbage and debris everywhere. If it's farmland avoid soft spots and making ruts, leave all gates in the position found. Get permission to hunt private land well before hunting season, so you have time to get to know the landowner and where the game are on that land.



There, that is a start, it's general and most of it is taught during hunter education courses.

The stuff that is not clear cut should be avoided as Bruce Mc said. Hunting with dogs, access to hunting site via ATV, hunting with night vision and the other really edgey stuff is not for discussion on a public forum.

JT.

 

[DrMike]

Essentially, Jason, you have touched on what I was suggesting. There are a variety of issues about which we disagree. Perhaps even in applications we may have disagreement. Surely, however, there are issues that define sportsmanship.

Bruce

Perhaps I don't fully understand your strong feelings. Surely you would agree that we should not shy from advocating ethical hunting? If you mean we shouldn't judge one practise verses another, I would agree so long as we are speaking of issues that don't cross the line into disrespect for the game or disrespect for the land or disrespect for others who share the resource.

The issue is not unlike including posts on political views. There must be respect for dissent, without compromising one's own position.

 

[nodak7mm]

Doc Mike,

I fully support your intent, however I tend to side with Bruce that we should not because it could/will lead to bad juju on the board. Mass tryanny by moderators based on their personal views is a reality. Not necessarily here as I have a lot of respect for the Nosler mods and these guys in my book are #1, but other unamed boards have had mods run amok over similar discussions.

Advocation of ethical hunting practices - Yes sir! I am there. However, what may be deemed unethical by others, may be entirely legal & considered ethical by the state/province of where they reside. But to define that within the parameters of a "public forum" is almost impossible.

Such examples are as you stated: Deer Baiting, why legal in one state, but the next over, not. Hunting bear with hounds in one state and the next over no way. Party hunting is another that comes to mind. Definatly hot taters!! And will be discussed forever weather they are ethical or not. I dont believe that is your intent of such a forum, nor is this the place.

Hunting ethics can be a broad term. JT mentioned Hunters Ed, what we teach within the Instructors guidlines is a good example of Hunting Ethics. However, we must be careful not to condemn ones legal hunting practices as unethical because we dont agree. But those publications can be a good place to start if one is looking for a definition.

To me, hunting ethical is very basic & very easy. Act legally, hunt legally and respect the critter, the land and the environment you are hunting. Act professional and be a role model for others.

But I do find that, having to shoot a critter several times with a rimfire cartridge not designed for the intent in which it was used, at an unrealistic yardage for that round regardless, watching the animal suffer and then laughing and wishing that it had been filmed is utterly DISGUSTING AND REPULSIVE, regardless if it was legal or not. That is SLOB SHOOTING & UNETHICAL IN MY BOOK.

Thanks for listening and I certainly appreciate your effort and intent to have some good discussion.

Rod

 

[DrMike]

Whether or not such a column would be a good idea (I fully understand the concerns expressed and yield to those concerns as expressed), the fact remains that ethical hunters (those who make every effort to respect the game, the land and fellow hunters) must be encouraged to speak out forcefully when they observe unethical behaviour.

I fully support the individual who chooses to employ a different technique than others, and yet is considerate of the quarry. I have witnessed the foolish arguments (e.g. that hunting with hounds, or fishing with garden hackle) is unethical. Deliberately wounding an animal, or choosing a weapon that is virtually guaranteed to wound an animal, is unethical. Obviously, deliberately violating the laws of a state, province or nation, cannot be supported.

I am pleased by the sense of honour expressed by the most on this forum. It gives me a sense of security that the future is still bright for hunting in North America.

Enough said.

 

[sask boy]

DrMike, you have expressed my sentiments exactly. There is a big difference between killing and hunting. As a hunter in my later years I want this sport to continue and every chance I get I try to get young people involved in this sport.
We are so blessed to live in Canada or the US as we have many freedoms and we should not give any opportunity to anti hunting or gun groups to gain the upper hand on us.
We should really encourage our younger hunters to ask questions and we should attempt to teach and support ethical methods of hunting.
Being in the outdoors is so great and getting the game is just a bonus.

Blessings,
Dan

 

[Anonymous]

I am assuming (I know what happens when someone does that) that this post is because of the 17 HMR post. I have addressed that post and locked it but I don't think that we need a hunting ethics forum here, mainly because almost everyone here hunts ethically. If you've been on this forum for more than a couple of months you know that everyone here is quick to point out if they think someone made the wrong choice. Basically, let your conscience be your guide. If that points you in the wrong direction than you have more deep rooted issues than we can solve on an internet forum.

 

[JDMAG]

There is another forum that I frequent that has an "ethics "thread".
In this thread a fairly well known author poses a story, (I believe to be true most of the time) and then there is a discussion of the ethics of this hunt. I have seen others from here on that forum.
If an ethics discussion or forum is formed on this forum, I would suggest something along these lines. if Some one has an ethics discussion to bring forth, they should send it in the form of a story to an administrator, and let them post it, or at least proof read it, and then the discussion can begin.
in this manner, lessons can be learned, and tempers avoided.
Just a suggestion.

 

[jtoews80]

I will agree that this may not be the place for a case by case diasection of hunting ethics. I remember a certain thread that resulted in alot of flaming last season and have no wish for a repeat(the only time I've seen it on here). As well, I have alot of respect for the members of this forum and enjoy the friendly atmosphere without the usual flaming and egos of some forums. There is a deep base of knowledge and my shooting has definitely come a long way since utilizing it in practical application.

I would be in favor of a locked sticky in the hunting forum with a general 3-5 point breakdown of general ethics and courtesy. Something for the new to the sport without mentors and possibly even a suggestion to locate a mentor to learn our sport.

Something like the 3 saskachewan youtube stars needed to see before shooting their infamous miniclip.

JT.

 

[jtoews80]

Not meaning to contradict you JDMAG, but I was refering to the same thing as you were. "Posting discussions that perhaps are not suitable for open broadcast on the net". It would indeed have to be filtered or we'd become just another place guys go to build up their ego by flaming other people. Might be something to save for deer camp, or when ever the uncle you love to get wound up comes over........ :lol:

JT.