IMR 8208 358 Win loads.

[gerry]

I hate even asking but could someone run quickload for me using the 200 gr AccuBond, 225 gr Sierra and 225 gr Woodleigh RN?

I found some old quickload data using the 200 gr Hornady that topped out at 47.1 gr and that load is safe in my gun. Speer lists 46.3 gr with their 220 gr FN so I know I was in the ball park working up to 47 gr with the Hornady.

The Nosler and Sierra bullet are at 2.790" oal and I had to seat the Woodleigh a bit deeper to 2.680" to make sure it would feed well. Using W-W brass and CCI 200's.

One day I'm going to invest in quickload, hopefully later this year...............

 

[DrMike]

Cartridge          : .358 Win.
Bullet             : .358, 225, Woodleigh SN WeldCore 51
Useable Case Capaci: 47.406 grain H2O = 3.078 cm³
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 2.680 inch = 68.07 mm
Barrel Length      : 20.0 inch = 508.0 mm
Powder             : IMR 8208 XBR

Predicted data by increasing and decreasing the given charge,
incremented in steps of 1.0% of nominal charge.
CAUTION: Figures exceed maximum and minimum recommended loads !

Step    Fill. Charge   Vel.  Energy   Pmax   Pmuz  Prop.Burnt B_Time
 %       %    Grains   fps   ft.lbs    psi    psi      %        ms

-10.0   96    41.85   2188    2393   41768   6355     92.9    1.200
-09.0   97    42.32   2212    2445   43152   6432     93.4    1.183
-08.0   98    42.78   2236    2498   44578   6507     93.9    1.166
-07.0   99    43.25   2260    2552   46048   6580     94.3    1.149
-06.0  100    43.71   2284    2606   47566   6652     94.7    1.132
-05.0  101    44.18   2308    2661   49137   6722     95.1    1.116
-04.0  102    44.64   2332    2717   50764   6790     95.5    1.100  ! Near Maximum !
-03.0  103    45.11   2356    2773   52449   6856     95.9    1.085  ! Near Maximum !
-02.0  104    45.57   2380    2829   54195   6921     96.2    1.070  ! Near Maximum !
-01.0  105    46.04   2404    2886   56004   6983     96.6    1.054  ! Near Maximum !
+00.0  106    46.50   2428    2944   57879   7043     96.9    1.040  ! Near Maximum !
+01.0  107    46.97   2451    3002   59824   7101     97.2    1.025  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+02.0  109    47.43   2475    3061   61841   7157     97.5    1.011  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+03.0  110    47.90   2499    3121   63933   7210     97.8    0.997  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+04.0  111    48.36   2523    3181   66105   7261     98.1    0.983  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+05.0  112    48.83   2547    3241   68361   7310     98.3    0.969  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!

Results caused by ± 10% powder lot-to-lot burning rate variation using nominal charge
Data for burning rate increased by 10% relative to nominal value:
+Ba    106    46.50   2538    3219   68888   6971     99.8    0.970  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Data for burning rate decreased by 10% relative to nominal value:
-Ba    106    46.50   2282    2601   47278   6794     90.5    1.131

 

[DrMike]

Cartridge          : .358 Win.
Bullet             : .358, 225, Sierra SPBT 2850
Useable Case Capaci: 45.427 grain H2O = 2.950 cm³
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 2.690 inch = 68.33 mm
Barrel Length      : 20.0 inch = 508.0 mm
Powder             : IMR 8208 XBR

Predicted data by increasing and decreasing the given charge,
incremented in steps of 1.0% of nominal charge.
CAUTION: Figures exceed maximum and minimum recommended loads !

Step    Fill. Charge   Vel.  Energy   Pmax   Pmuz  Prop.Burnt B_Time
 %       %    Grains   fps   ft.lbs    psi    psi      %        ms

-10.0   97    40.59   2162    2335   41407   6084     92.3    1.210
-09.0   98    41.04   2186    2387   42796   6158     92.8    1.192
-08.0   99    41.49   2210    2439   44232   6231     93.3    1.175
-07.0  100    41.94   2233    2492   45723   6303     93.7    1.158
-06.0  101    42.39   2257    2546   47262   6373     94.2    1.141
-05.0  102    42.85   2281    2600   48851   6441     94.6    1.125
-04.0  103    43.30   2305    2654   50492   6508     95.0    1.109  ! Near Maximum !
-03.0  104    43.75   2329    2710   52190   6572     95.4    1.093  ! Near Maximum !
-02.0  106    44.20   2353    2766   53950   6635     95.8    1.077  ! Near Maximum !
-01.0  107    44.65   2377    2822   55777   6696     96.1    1.062  ! Near Maximum !
+00.0  108    45.10   2401    2879   57671   6755     96.5    1.047  ! Near Maximum !
+01.0  109    45.55   2424    2937   59637   6812     96.8    1.032  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+02.0  110    46.00   2448    2995   61679   6867     97.1    1.018  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+03.0  111    46.45   2472    3054   63799   6919     97.4    1.003  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+04.0  112    46.90   2496    3113   66003   6969     97.7    0.989  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+05.0  113    47.36   2520    3173   68293   7017     98.0    0.976  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!

Results caused by ± 10% powder lot-to-lot burning rate variation using nominal charge
Data for burning rate increased by 10% relative to nominal value:
+Ba    108    45.10   2513    3155   68774   6709     99.7    0.976  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Data for burning rate decreased by 10% relative to nominal value:
-Ba    108    45.10   2254    2538   47040   6495     89.8    1.139

 

[DrMike]

Cartridge          : .358 Win.
Bullet             : .358, 200, Nosler AccuBond 54425
Useable Case Capaci: 43.925 grain H2O = 2.852 cm³
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 2.690 inch = 68.33 mm
Barrel Length      : 20.0 inch = 508.0 mm
Powder             : IMR 8208 XBR

Predicted data by increasing and decreasing the given charge,
incremented in steps of 1.0% of nominal charge.
CAUTION: Figures exceed maximum and minimum recommended loads !

Step    Fill. Charge   Vel.  Energy   Pmax   Pmuz  Prop.Burnt B_Time
 %       %    Grains   fps   ft.lbs    psi    psi      %        ms

-10.0  101    40.86   2252    2251   40758   5862     89.3    1.156
-09.0  102    41.31   2277    2303   42172   5939     89.9    1.138
-08.0  103    41.77   2303    2356   43639   6015     90.4    1.121
-07.0  104    42.22   2329    2409   45163   6090     90.9    1.104
-06.0  105    42.68   2355    2463   46748   6163     91.5    1.088
-05.0  107    43.13   2381    2518   48395   6235     92.0    1.072
-04.0  108    43.58   2407    2573   50109   6305     92.5    1.056  ! Near Maximum !
-03.0  109    44.04   2433    2629   51889   6374     92.9    1.040  ! Near Maximum !
-02.0  110    44.49   2459    2686   53745   6440     93.4    1.024  ! Near Maximum !
-01.0  111    44.95   2486    2744   55678   6505     93.9    1.009  ! Near Maximum !
+00.0  112    45.40   2512    2802   57691   6568     94.3    0.994  ! Near Maximum !
+01.0  113    45.85   2538    2861   59778   6629     94.7    0.980  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+02.0  114    46.31   2565    2921   61975   6688     95.1    0.965  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+03.0  115    46.76   2591    2981   64259   6745     95.5    0.951  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+04.0  117    47.22   2617    3043   66636   6799     95.9    0.937  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+05.0  118    47.67   2644    3105   69110   6851     96.3    0.923  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!

Results caused by ± 10% powder lot-to-lot burning rate variation using nominal charge
Data for burning rate increased by 10% relative to nominal value:
+Ba    112    45.40   2642    3099   69270   6629     98.7    0.925  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Data for burning rate decreased by 10% relative to nominal value:
-Ba    112    45.40   2348    2447   47012   6218     86.6    1.085

 

[DrMike]

Any one of those loads will deliver a pretty solid thump, Gerry. The AB is stepping out quite nicely.

 

[gerry]

Thank you very much, I appreciate it. Any of those look pretty good to me especially out of a 20" barrel, good loading density with IMR 8208 since it is such a fine grained powder. H 4895 is pretty decent as well in that regard, thankfully Hodgdon has a lot of good data out for it. IMR 3031 looks to run out of room quickly with those huge kernels of powder, might save it for the 303 British where it works quite well.

 

[SJB358]

Seems like a 225 at around 2400'ish is right in the 358's wheelhouse. I know mine punishes deer. Always wanted to tackle something larger with it, just haven't gotten around to it yet.

 

[DrMike]

I used a BLR chambered in .358 to take a bison some years back. That was with a 250 grain Hornady RN. I found the load to be a bit underpowered for such a big animal. On the other hand, I've taken mountain grizzly with a .356 (which is nipping at the heels of the .358). That load was built around the 220 grain Speer FN. Admittedly, that was an unalarmed bear. Still, the first shot broke both shoulders and dropped the bear quite smartly. BlkRam (Gil) has taken grizzly with his .358 loaded with 220 grain Speers. Used properly, the .358 is surprisingly effective with some rather large animals.

 

[gerry]

Seems like a 225 at around 2400'ish is right in the 358's wheelhouse. I know mine punishes deer. Always wanted to tackle something larger with it, just haven't gotten around to it yet.

I'll get that 358 into a spring bear in a few months, I'll likely get my cousin's boy into another with that gun. He will use whatever is the better load between the 200 gr AB and 225 gr Sierra. I'm toying with the idea of taking the scope off and doing an iron sight hunt with the 225 gr Woodleigh RN, I realised I have never shot a big game animal with iron sights and should do it at least once.

Will probably carry it for moose a bit this fall and it will go for sure on a deer hunt.

 

[SJB358]

I think you will like it. Can't beat how handy they are and you already know, those big bullets do a great job on animals without much fuss.

 

[gerry]

Anyone try IMR 8208 with 180 gr Speer bullets? I got some in this week along with Sierra 200 gr FN bullets. I'm going to use the same load that I used with other 200 gr bullets (46 gr as a max) but I'm unsure where to stop with the 180's. Plan on using H 4895 as well with both bullets, I'm looking at a max of 48 gr with the 200's but again I'm unsure where to stop with the 180's.

 

[DrMike]

Cartridge          : .358 Win.
Bullet             : .358, 180, Speer FP 2435
Useable Case Capaci: 53.846 grain H2O = 3.496 cm³
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 2.780 inch = 70.61 mm
Barrel Length      : 20.0 inch = 508.0 mm
Powder             : IMR 8208 XBR

Predicted data by increasing and decreasing the given charge,
incremented in steps of 1.0% of nominal charge.
CAUTION: Figures exceed maximum and minimum recommended loads !

Step    Fill. Charge   Vel.  Energy   Pmax   Pmuz  Prop.Burnt B_Time
 %       %    Grains   fps   ft.lbs    psi    psi      %        ms

-10.0   97    48.24   2478    2455   41182   7099     90.2    1.079
-09.0   98    48.78   2506    2511   42581   7193     90.8    1.063
-08.0   99    49.31   2534    2567   44029   7284     91.3    1.047
-07.0  100    49.85   2563    2625   45530   7374     91.8    1.032
-06.0  102    50.38   2591    2683   47089   7462     92.4    1.016
-05.0  103    50.92   2619    2742   48700   7548     92.8    1.001
-04.0  104    51.46   2647    2801   50364   7632     93.3    0.986  ! Near Maximum !
-03.0  105    51.99   2676    2861   52083   7714     93.8    0.972  ! Near Maximum !
-02.0  106    52.53   2704    2922   53865   7795     94.2    0.958  ! Near Maximum !
-01.0  107    53.06   2732    2984   55715   7873     94.7    0.944  ! Near Maximum !
+00.0  108    53.60   2761    3046   57635   7948     95.1    0.930  ! Near Maximum !
+01.0  109    54.14   2789    3109   59628   8021     95.5    0.916  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+02.0  110    54.67   2818    3173   61699   8092     95.9    0.903  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+03.0  111    55.21   2846    3238   63851   8160     96.3    0.890  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+04.0  112    55.74   2875    3303   66089   8226     96.6    0.877  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+05.0  113    56.28   2903    3369   68416   8288     97.0    0.864  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!

Results caused by ± 10% powder lot-to-lot burning rate variation using nominal charge
Data for burning rate increased by 10% relative to nominal value:
+Ba    108    53.60   2900    3361   68759   8003     99.1    0.864  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Data for burning rate decreased by 10% relative to nominal value:
-Ba    108    53.60   2583    2668   46998   7544     87.7    1.014


Cartridge          : .358 Win.
Bullet             : .358, 200, Sierra SPRN 2800
Useable Case Capaci: 54.277 grain H2O = 3.524 cm³
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 2.780 inch = 70.61 mm
Barrel Length      : 20.0 inch = 508.0 mm
Powder             : IMR 8208 XBR

Predicted data by increasing and decreasing the given charge,
incremented in steps of 1.0% of nominal charge.
CAUTION: Figures exceed maximum and minimum recommended loads !

Step    Fill. Charge   Vel.  Energy   Pmax   Pmuz  Prop.Burnt B_Time
 %       %    Grains   fps   ft.lbs    psi    psi      %        ms

-10.0   95    47.34   2381    2518   41928   7214     92.5    1.124
-09.0   96    47.87   2408    2574   43298   7303     93.0    1.107
-08.0   97    48.39   2434    2630   44713   7391     93.5    1.091
-07.0   98    48.92   2460    2687   46176   7476     93.9    1.075
-06.0   99    49.44   2486    2745   47690   7560     94.4    1.059
-05.0  100    49.97   2512    2803   49256   7641     94.8    1.044
-04.0  101    50.50   2539    2862   50876   7721     95.2    1.029  ! Near Maximum !
-03.0  102    51.02   2565    2921   52553   7798     95.6    1.015  ! Near Maximum !
-02.0  103    51.55   2591    2981   54290   7873     96.0    1.000  ! Near Maximum !
-01.0  104    52.07   2617    3042   56088   7946     96.4    0.986  ! Near Maximum !
+00.0  105    52.60   2643    3103   57951   8017     96.7    0.972  ! Near Maximum !
+01.0  106    53.13   2670    3165   59881   8085     97.0    0.958  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+02.0  107    53.65   2696    3228   61881   8150     97.3    0.945  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+03.0  108    54.18   2722    3291   63955   8213     97.6    0.931  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+04.0  109    54.70   2748    3354   66105   8273     97.9    0.918  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+05.0  110    55.23   2775    3419   68336   8331     98.2    0.905  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!

Results caused by ± 10% powder lot-to-lot burning rate variation using nominal charge
Data for burning rate increased by 10% relative to nominal value:
+Ba    105    52.60   2767    3399   68847   7969     99.7    0.905  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Data for burning rate decreased by 10% relative to nominal value:
-Ba    105    52.60   2483    2737   47421   7703     90.1    1.058

 

[gerry]

Wow, both of those loads are stepping out nicely. Thank you DrMike

 

[SJB358]

Wow, both of those loads are stepping out nicely. Thank you DrMike

I’ll be watching. Those look like two great loads.

 

[DrMike]

I should imagine either of those pills will deliver a mighty blow on game. Gil was a real fan of the 220 grain Speer in his .358. I leaned toward the 200 grain TSX, which always performed well for me. Funnily enough, I do have a good supply of 180 grain Speer FN bullets, but I just never worked them up. I may have to revisit them.

 

[gerry]

I went out really early this morning to spend some time shooting and did a bit of work with the loads DrMike kindly posted up for me.

One shot each to find velocity and pressure from the 20" BLR barrel.

180 gr Speer

49 gr - 2428 fps
50 gr - 2402 fps
51 gr - 2498 fps
52 gr - 2587 fps
53 gr - 2620 fps

200 gr Sierra

48 gr - 2341 fps
49 gr - 2437 fps
50 gr - 2481 fps
51 gr - 2522 fps
52 gr - 2584 fps

I'm pretty busy right now but hope to get out next weekend again and will try some groups with some of the ones in the mid to upper charge weights of each load. Those are the best speeds I have gotten yet with 200's and the 180's look good too. I'll keep you posted.