Iron sights and group size.

[RememberBaker]

I've been messing around shooting my .256 Newton. I've shot 125 grain Partitions and 130 grain Accubonds. So far, only with IMR 4350, from 44.5 up to 47 grains. I think 47 grains is probably a couple grains below max but as far as I'm going. Well at 100 yards I can shoot a group about 2 1/2"
with everything I've tried. So now what? How small a group should I be able to shoot at 100 yards with open sights? I'm thinking this is as good as my 50 year old eyes are going to do. If your loading for a rifle with open sights, what do you guys look for?

 

[DrMike]

At sixty-six, open sights will allow me to keep nine our of ten in three inches at one hundred yards if I don't push it. I shoot my .303 and .375 Win with open sights. A six inch group is still a dead moose at the range I'll shoot those rifles. About ten years ago, I was still able to produce a two inch group. That was then, and this is now.

 

[Guy Miner]

I understand. Shot long-range prone matches for a while.

Some with a scope fitted, some with match-type sights. I actually shot better scores with the sights, instead of the scope!

Still, I think it depends largely on the sights. Those were very nice match sights, a Swenson rear and a Tiger front. Old now, but still good.

Ordinary "iron" open hunting type sights, I'm good for maybe two MOA, if things are going my way. Maybe.

Guy

 

[DrMike]

Williams Peep sight, I can do much better than the old battle sights on the .303 or the Winchester dovetail on the Model 94. I believe you are correct, Guy.

 

[Anonymous]

Too many variables in the equation. A good shot with a fine front sight and a aperture rear can usually shoot 1-2 MOA with practice.

My .375 has a 3/32 front bead and express rear- if I shoot 6MOA I feel good about since the front bead will cover a lot of target at 100yds.

I really like shooting aperture sighted rifles- harder now with my eyesight but there's a lot to be said for hunting with one.

 

[RememberBaker]

No aperture sight, It's a fine gold bead front sight, maybe 1/16", and it has a two leaf rear sight, 100 and 300 yards I think.

 

[Polaris]

I shoot a lot of military vintage rifles. The very best 5 shot groups I am able to manage are around 1". Sometimes just slightly under. This is with either my Swedish M96, Swiss G-11 or Swiss K-31. I am convinced with the consistency of these rifles they would be .5 moa guns with optics.

If you are under 2MOA, you are probably approaching the accuracy potential of your rifle/sights. I would set that as a reasonable goal with a quality barrel and sights in a sporting iron sighted rifle if you're trying to get the absolute most out of it. You should easily get to 3 MOA. Most of my mosins will do that with issue ammo.

 

[Razorbacker]

I've been messing around shooting my .256 Newton. I've shot 125 grain Partitions and 130 grain Accubonds. So far, only with IMR 4350, from 44.5 up to 47 grains. I think 47 grains is probably a couple grains below max but as far as I'm going. Well at 100 yards I can shoot a group about 2 1/2"
with everything I've tried. So now what? How small a group should I be able to shoot at 100 yards with open sights? I'm thinking this is as good as my 50 year old eyes are going to do. If your loading for a rifle with open sights, what do you guys look for?

I don't know what you're wanting to use the rifle for but I'm 52 so I know you're old enough to remember when a factory rifle that gave that group was good enough. And one that shot MOA was celebrated in song and story.
The only rifle I own that isn't scoped shoots .17 pellets. So 100 yds is out of the question. I therefore can't relate. But. back when I could relate, your groups would have suited me fine.
Unless you're heading to Camp Perry or something like it, I'd call it good.
A dozen years or more ago I hunted the down, dark timber of the Flatops Wilderness area in CO. As i still hunted my way through that mess with a .300WM with a 3.5x10x50 scope, it occurred to me that a lever rifle in 45 70 with a ghost ring rear and a big fat gold bead front would have been a much better choice.

 

[Wincheringen]

2-2 1/2 is all I can muster with a Garand at 100M.

 

[SJB358]

I can keep about 2 MOA or so with a decent set of peeps. Anything smaller is just the wind pushing the bullets into the center.

 

[Guy Miner]

Scotty - remember that flip up peep you sent me a while back?

I won a little shoot-off with it just the other day...

It pays to know your sights!

 

[SJB358]

Scotty - remember that flip up peep you sent me a while back?

I won a little shoot-off with it just the other day...

It pays to know your sights!

Ha! That's good to go buddy! I'm glad it works for ya.

 

[Oldtrader3]

I have been shooting Winchester 94 and Marlins for 50 years with standard leaf/post sights and with peep/post sights. Presently (69 years old) I can only hold about 2.5 MOA at 100 yards or (better still) Minute of Deer with standard leaf sights!

 

[Guy Miner]

Sights on my old Win Model 70 match rifle. Very nice! Easily adjustable for 1,000 yards. The front Tiger sight had different inserts, all with different size apertures. The rear aperture was adjustable too.

Guy

 

[Guy Miner]

Far more conventional Williams sight on my Marlin. I like the peep sights!

Guy