Keystone Pipeline

[Oldtrader3]

Don't worry about it, Ben. However, I suspect there is more diversity here then you may think there is. I am a right leaning (capitalist), centrist, Christian, who has lived in French Canada and France, plus several other countries. However, I like it here very much.

 

[jtoews80]

I've made my living in the oil Sands and Heavy Oil fields for the past 11 years. For any that wish to visit, there are tours one can take in Fort Mac and in alot of the in situ/steam assisted facilities.

Most of the oil sands recovery is quite literally cleaning up the worlds largest naturally occurring oil spill for a profit. The refining is a bit more complex, but nothing a CAT cracker can't solve, its simple chemistry. The fish released in the tailings ponds for testing have proven to be healthier than the same species pulled from the Athabasca River, if that tells you anything.

As to out of country investors, I concur 100%, it is a big concern.

I don't wish to argue with anybody, but for the record: Our oil is produced in the safest possible manner with regard to both involved workers and environment. We are known for our strict controls and requirements globally, contrary to the left media. The proceeds do not fund terrorists, states that tolerate/endorse abuse of women and ongoing peace keeping/regime changes are not required to keep these resources secure.

In short, our oil isn't bloody or dirty. Those that wish to criticize ought to walk instrad of burning dirty fuel, not wear any synthetic clothing derived from plastics or accept any funds from this dirty province.

I've shoveled for hours and spent thousands of hours involved with making sure things got done right. At costs into the millions. Don't try to tell me about how it is. I know we are not perfect, but compared to countries you'd like to buy oil from, we are better than perfect. Places were workplace fatalities are acceptable and intentional releases of produced water into waterways is normal despite it causing cancer in the majority of indiginous peoples along those waterways. Places were protest to such abuses are answered with military force despite being peaceful.

Think what you like, the sky is blue in my world and can be whatever colour you like in yours.

The irony of all this is that, realistically, Quebec ought to be the shining star of the North. With the mineral wealth, timber and many moving bodies of water useful for generating hydro-electricity, it could easily outshine Ft. Mac, but it hasn't.
Alberta is made up of semi-arid farmland on the SE, some foothills on the West and the North half is muskeg, we use what we have.
If we were able to use cleaner energy than hydrocarbon based fuels and not condemn our children back into the dark ages, to be ruled by poverty and ignorance, do you really believe we would choose hydrocarbon based energy??

 

[CanuckBen]

I've made my living in the oil Sands and Heavy Oil fields for the past 11 years. For any that wish to visit, there are tours one can take in Fort Mac and in alot of the in situ/steam assisted facilities.

Most of the oil sands recovery is quite literally cleaning up the worlds largest naturally occurring oil spill for a profit. The refining is a bit more complex, but nothing a CAT cracker can't solve, its simple chemistry. The fish released in the tailings ponds for testing have proven to be healthier than the same species pulled from the Athabasca River, if that tells you anything.

As to out of country investors, I concur 100%, it is a big concern.

Gald we can agree on that.

I don't wish to argue with anybody, but for the record: Our oil is produced in the safest possible manner with regard to both involved workers and environment. We are known for our strict controls and requirements globally, contrary to the left media. The proceeds do not fund terrorists, states that tolerate/endorse abuse of women and ongoing peace keeping/regime changes are not required to keep these resources secure.

If we can put aside the tin-foil left-wing media conspiracy aside and look into independent studies, it seems quite clear to me that the impacts on the Athabasca River are of real and proven scientific facts

http://cahr.uvic.ca/nearbc/documents/20 ... ollute.pdf

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/nat ... le1689578/

http://www.cbc.ca/news/technology/story ... river.html

http://www.pnas.org/content/107/37/16178.full

In short, our oil isn't bloody or dirty. Those that wish to criticize ought to walk instrad of burning dirty fuel, not wear any synthetic clothing derived from plastics or accept any funds from this dirty province.

That’s the thing Jtowes80. This is a lot bigger than your province. It’s about the global environmental impact that the transformation of the tar sand have.

Doesn’t the transformation of the said tar sand, proven to release 4 times the amount of greenhouse gas emission PER barrel not concern you at all?

I mean one could say that “it isn’t being transformed in my back yard, so who cares, as long as we sale it, that’s all that matters”. I surely hope that you care more about the global (world) impact it has, especially to our friends south of the border.

I've shoveled for hours and spent thousands of hours involved with making sure things got done right. At costs into the millions. Don't try to tell me about how it is. I know we are not perfect, but compared to countries you'd like to buy oil from, we are better than perfect. Places were workplace fatalities are acceptable and intentional releases of produced water into waterways is normal despite it causing cancer in the majority of indiginous peoples along those waterways. Places were protest to such abuses are answered with military force despite being peaceful.

That’s an interesting point. We are currently mining the tar sand out of the Alberta pits, piping it to the US, they transform into usable petroleum by-products and then buying it back? How smart is that for a domestic economic model hey!! That concept seems so familiar…oh yeah, the whole timber trade industries!

Think what you like, the sky is blue in my world and can be whatever colour you like in yours.

The irony of all this is that, realistically, Quebec ought to be the shining star of the North. With the mineral wealth, timber and many moving bodies of water useful for generating hydro-electricity, it could easily outshine Ft. Mac, but it hasn't.

Quebec is a renowned world leader in hydro-electricity development and exploitation. It was nationalised 1944 and 1962, but it’s not the right-wing way of doing it, so I highly doubt you’d see any benefits in that. I can GUARANTEE you that if it wouldn’t have been for this state-owned body, the development of the hydro-electricity in Quebec would have been at the same nor would we now profit from low electricity cost.

The mineral and timber natural resources and the way they were both managed is a complete shame to this province, there is no doubt there. Why do you think there’s such a movement here to take it back and manage it ourselves? The leftovers of both industries have left enormous sites completely shredded of any ecosystem that was present before. The only thing that mattered was to cut and dig out as much as possible, as quickly as possible, as cheap as possible. What were we left with? Nothing. If you don’t believe me, have a look at the timber industry and how it’s gone down the pipe in the last 10 years.

We must protect our natural resources and manage it ourselves.

Alberta is made up of semi-arid farmland on the SE, some foothills on the West and the North half is muskeg, we use what we have.
If we were able to use cleaner energy than hydrocarbon based fuels and not condemn our children back into the dark ages, to be ruled by poverty and ignorance, do you really believe we would choose hydrocarbon based energy??

I thought this discussion was about the mining and exploitation of raw and unrefined tar sand bitumen? But if you really want to know the answer – it’s yes it would continue. Do you realllllllly believe that any large corporation already deeply involved would just say “f*&k it, lets close up shop and move to something else”? C’mon now, that’s never going to happen. The tap is already open, it’s a question of how to control it as its already getting out of hand.

 

[jtoews80]

In the 60's it took 4X more energy to refine tar sand, technology has come along way since then. Now its stripped 1 atom of carbon per pass through a Catalytic seperator and becomes a useable product here. Starting with the lower grades of oil like roofing tar and plastics and continuing on until the lightest and thinnest fuels/butanes. The diesel fuel I use is produced in one of three places, Federated Co-op's facility in Regina, SK, Petrocanada's Ft. Mac facility or Shell Canada's Ft.Saskachewan facility.

Believe me, all thee facilities had issues within about the same 2 weeks and diesel was very hard to get for awhile.

Alot of our production is from steam injection or SAGD. It comes out of the ground liquid and doesn't require removing as much or any sand. The ERCB regulates this stuff pretty heavily, and has pulled production licenses on multimillion dollar or larger projects on occasion if there is reason.

I am not sad to see our markets diversify, although I am sorry for the damage that is being inflicted on a great nation because of poor leadership. Alot of people don't realize it, but a stipulation of the OPEC agreement was that oil had to be bought and sold in USD, resulting in a sort of "oil standard" that held equity in the USD. Canada is not bound by OPEC and if the oil is marketed to China directly, the US will lose the 2-3% markup on selling greenbacks to allow purchase of oil and about the same when they buy it back, for a total of 5-6% of the gross value of the oil traded.

Laugh about tin foil hats all you want, when the Arab Spring liberated Libyia last year most of the intial trouble came from areas that were heavy with oil production and more affluent. Of course, this also resulted in very little damage or disruption of those facilities. Strange, wouldn't you think?

For the moment, the world has to have oil, its a simple fact. Should we seek cleaner energy, of course. Should we indebt and bankrupt nations to fix it now?? No.

Only 3% of greenhouse gases are produced by human activity, the other 97% are naturally occuring and we are powerless to change that. We should try to harness and utilize the methane produced by livestock domestically, but that isn't politically correct and is a non-issue because it isn't in the news. If the energy sector would allow the same release of gases as the high intensity hog barns do there would be huge outcry, which is why we are required to collect the natural gas that is often a byproduct. It was legal until the early 2000's and lot of gas was wasted, in similar fashion to how heavy oil was dumped on the ground during the late 19th century in Ontario because they were after the light oil to produce kerosene.

Even if we were able to surive without burning fossil fuels for propulsion, oils would still be needed to make plastic and lubricating fluids like grease, gear oil etc. Lastly, are you prepared to physically starve to death because transporting food is too expensive?? Or live at a third world standard because the cost of producing anything is more than the market will bear? How about paying equilization payments to undeveloped countries to the point of not bring able to afford heat in our cold winters?

The enviromental cult is not all it appears, think about it. Do you think a socialist global gov't would turn off the tap once they had gained control either?? Be realistic, power is addicting, NOBODY would risk losing control after gaining it. Domination has been the goal of almost every large empire and country in recorded history. The causes and excuses to try to dominate may have changed, people haven't

JT