King of the .30's

[ajvigs]

Thanks all. Really good information you all have given me. I plan on this rifle being used for big game; think Moose, Elk, etc. My 7mm08 I have loaded with either a 140 grain BT, AB, NP, or 150 grain 150 ABLR is perfect for lighter fair.

Does the 30-06 run out of steam quick when used to push the 180, 190, and heavier slugs? With the aspect of using the heavier side of the 30 caliber bullets (190 grain and up), some sort of 30 cal magnum might just be the ticket when compared to the old '06?

 

[wildgene]

...I have to add another vote for the .300 WSM. A considerable step up from the '06 (200-250fps MV), while not giving up much to the .300 WM (50-75fps) w/ the same bullets. You can get very good performance in a shorter, lighter rifle @ a manageable level of recoil. If you think you need to go "heavier", consider the .325 WSM, all the above applies...

 

[DrMike]

Thanks all. Really good information you all have given me. I plan on this rifle being used for big game; think Moose, Elk, etc. My 7mm08 I have loaded with either a 140 grain BT, AB, NP, or 150 grain 150 ABLR is perfect for lighter fair.

Does the 30-06 run out of steam quick when used to push the 180, 190, and heavier slugs? With the aspect of using the heavier side of the 30 caliber bullets (190 grain and up), some sort of 30 cal magnum might just be the ticket when compared to the old '06?

A hunting buddy used a 7mm 08 for many years to drop a good number of moose. He shot a 145 grain Speer Hot-Cor, and it didn't let him down. The '06 is more than adequate for moose and elk. Don't dismiss either of those cartridges too casually. Having said that, if you can handle the recoil, a 300 Win Mag or a 300 WSM is just more of a good thing.

 

[ajvigs]

The only thing I am somewhat fearful of in going down the WSM route once again is whether or not the 300 WSM is here to stay or will it be gone into existence some time in the future. Other then that it does seem very viable, as I do like short-actions.

On the flip side, I talked to an old buddy back home who taught me a great deal about rifles and he did say the 300WM is all I would ever need...

 

[dubyam]

You've received a lot of good information so far. I can't really say there's a bad choice among the 30cals, as long as you keep in mind the associated ranges for which each should be used. If you're hunting elk in dark timber, and shots will be "bow range" you could surely get by with a 30-30WCF and 170gr Nosler Partitions. I know, it's not exactly what you think of when you think of elk guns, but it will most certainly work and I suspect old-timers back at the turn of the century took a good number of elk with exactly that chambering, though they were not working with the Partition. Beyond that, all the 308s are good, and all have their advantages and disadvantages. For what you're describing, with the existing arsenal you have, there really isn't a bad choice in the 300Mag group. I suspect you'd be a tad range limited with the 30-06, as it's going to run out of trajectory and energy a lot sooner with the 180gr and up bullets. As you've said this is your elk/moose rifle, I'd start thinking a little bigger just to get the ability to make quartering shots at reasonable ranges outside that of the -06. The WSM or the WinMag will do what you're trying to do. I took the Weatherby route, and suggest you consider it as a viable option for a couple of reasons. First, it's not terribly recoil prohibitive. It will be a cupcake compared to the 45/70, I'm sure. It offers what I believe is the "sweet spot" in the 308Mags, with 180gr bullets humming along at 3200-3250fps with ease. I've personally shot three white-tails in the last two seasons with my 300Wby, with 180gr E-Tips, and meat loss has been less than with my 30-06 with 168gr BTs. Two of the deer dropped in place, and one which I hit farther back than I intended (offhand shot in thick cover of a deer which jumped up from a bed) ran a little ways before the blood loss from the liver and tip of the lung finished the job. None of these were hard to find.

If you do a little shopping, you can find stainless Mark Vs in 300Wby for under $900, and frequently, under $800. That's a pretty strong value, and a gun which will last you a lifetime. There's not much you can't do with a 180gr E-Tip humming along at 3200fps at the muzzle.

 

[Oldtrader3]

I guess that if I had to hunt all creatures in North America with one rifle, I would take the .300 H&H. It is easy to load for, very accurate, will push a 180 grain Partition to 2900 fps and cases last a long time. Plus, every thing that I have shot with a .300 H&H has died sooner than later. The only question might be finding cases or the .300 H&H.

 

[truck driver]

Well AJ it really depends on skill. If your a good hunter that has good stalking skills as our fore fathers had you can kill just about anything with less. The American Indian killed everything with a Lance or Bow and arrow that lives in North America.
The Magnum cartridges designed to kill dangerous game in Africa made their way into this country and started the Magnum revolution. The 9.3X62( 9.3X06 ) is considered the minimum standard in many African countries. ( I hope I got that right )
I'm not knocking the Magnum cartridges but they due allow the lessor skilled hunter to take longer shots and make clean kills where if they were using a non magnum cartridge it would be a miss or wounded game that could run off and die.
The 30-06 has killed everything the walks in North America by skilled hunters who would take the time and make a successful stalk. So I guess you know what my choice would be for a .30 caliber rifle would be and is my favorite hunting caliber.
With that said and you still want or think you need a Magnum I have a nice 300Wby Vanguard I'll sell you for $800 with a B&C Medalist stock and Timiney trigger that has only had 40 rounds shot threw it.

 

[Guy Miner]

What a bunch of .30 cal nuts here! Love it. Sign me up as a member of that club.

You've had great recommendations. I favor the lighter-recoiling .30's in a reasonably light, packing type rifle. Either the .30-06 or the .300 WSM or .300 Win mag would be my choice. Matter of fact I'm sitting on a .300 WSM and a pair of .30-06's right now. They're all very good.

For elk/moose/bear I think I'd want to shove a minimum of a 180 gr conventional or Partition bullet downrange, or a 168 E-Tip...

I don't think the .300 WSM is going away. It's very popular here in Washington as a bear, elk & mulie rifle. Also doing good things for long-range target shooters.

The .300 Win mag is just about as common as the .30-06 in hunting camps here, maybe more so.

The .30-06 is no slouch. High BC 180's at 2800 fps are fine at 400 yards... Recoil is a little less than the magnums, and I like that.

I respect the .300 RUM, but it was too much for me, in the kind of rifles I like to shoot best. In a heavier, long-range type rifle it would be GREAT, but more than I want to pack up the ridgelines anymore.

Pay your money and take your chances, but I really like the .30-06, .300 WSM & .300 Win mag.

Regards, Guy

 

[Dwh7271]

Boy AJ, you really know how to start a debate. :grin:
Agree with the virtues of the 30-06. Classic, competent caliber. Don't own one right now, but probably will again given time. (I know, sacrilege!)
Someone mentioned the 308 Norma which has some cool factor to it I think. I personally lean toward its' twin, the 30-338 which probably deserves consideration since you're into a 30 mag talk.
I would think the 300 WSM is going to give you a little more compact rifle possibly than some of the longer action stuff. Don't know if that matters or not. Also gives over the counter ammo about anywhere, accuracy and seems to get the job done pretty efficiently.
They are all pretty terrific.
Someone mentioned a 338 also. Awesome cartridge. I guess you cold throw the 325 WSM into the mix also. Pretty cool round that may not get the credit it deserves.
Heck, just forget about the 30s and get a big 'un. 9.3 X 62 and call it good. :lol:
Neat post. Thanks!

 

[alaska100]

I guess that if I had to hunt all creatures in North America with one rifle, I would take the .300 H&H. It is easy to load for, very accurate, will push a 180 grain Partition to 2900 fps and cases last a long time. Plus, every thing that I have shot with a .300 H&H has died sooner than later. The only question might be finding cases or the .300 H&H.

Charlie,

Aleena would be right there with you. She loves 300 H & H and has used it to hunt Europe, North America, Africa and New Zealand. My wife shoots the 300 H & H and it works for her as well. We recently purchased a 325 WSM BLR to be used as an all purpose/all family gun. We will carry it on the snowmobile, and horse, as well as use it for fishing protection and hunting in Alders. My wife and daughter have trouble with the 45/70, so the 325WSM will be able to be used by all members of the family

 

[Ridgerunner665]

The 300 WSM is lacking in one major area....and that is magazine capacity...for that reason alone, I chose the 30-06 over any of the magnums.

We all prefer "1 shot, 1 kill"....but it just doesn't always happen that way.

Sent from my DROID RAZR HD using Tapatalk

 

[PJGunner]

For a standard cartridge, the 30-06. If a magnum, the .300 Win. Mag. I've shot both for more years than I care to count.
I have shot the standard weight Winchester M70 in .300 WSM, nice rifle BTW and the Winchester Featherweight my ex-son in law bought. Nice rifle that he gave me to do the load work up for. Nice when I get to shoot for free. :mrgreen: Sad thing was I never could get it to shoot 180 gr. bullets from any manufacturer. Did give decent groups with the 165 gr. BTs though. (.75 to 1") Never did try anything lighter than 165 gr. bullets as he wanted the rifle to hunt elk.
Frankly, if push came to shove tough, I'd go with the 30-06. I doubt I'll ever get to hunt moose of one of the great bears. Don't really want to hunt some stinky rutting bull elk. I much prefer the better eating cows. Might go for antelope or deer but it's cow elk for my eating meat. Seems to a man named Whelen once said, "The 30-06 is never a mistake." Guess that pretty much says it all.
Paul B.

 

[ajvigs]

30-06 isnt out yet. For those who shoot it, how does it handle heavier bullets like the 185's and up? I would want to try out the 190 ABLR.

Also, what do you think an ideal weight 300 WM or 300 WSM rifle should be around loaded up with a scope and all? Also, barrel length? I may even consider a muzzle brake if I go with one of the mags.

 

[Vince]

[quo30-06 willdoajvigs"]Thanks all. Really good information you all have given me. I plan on this rifle being used for big game; think Moose, Elk, etc. My 7mm08 I have loaded with either a 140 grain BT, AB, NP, or 150 grain 150 ABLR is perfect for lighter fair.

Does the 30-06 run out of steam quick when used to push the 180, 190, and heavier slugs? With the aspect of using the heavier side of the 30 caliber bullets (190 grain and up), some sort of 30 cal magnum might just be the ticket when compared to the old '06?[/quote]

Given that you have the 7-08 I'd opt for the .300 Win Mag.
It has a little more to offer than the wsm caliber. The 30-06 will do 90% of what the .300 Win Mag will do. Given that you have the lighter end covered with the 7-08 why not look at a .338WM?
The trajectory is similar to the 30-06 but at 300 yards the .338 is doing what the 30-06 does at the muzzle energywise if I recall my data correctly.

 

[bobnob]

30-06 isnt out yet. For those who shoot it, how does it handle heavier bullets like the 185's and up? I would want to try out the 190 ABLR.
.

I have the 208g Amax going near 2650fps with no stress on anything, and more than acceptable accuracy. More than a few people shoot them at 2700+.

The 190g ABLR or even 210 ABLR would be even more a good thing, but I would lean toward the 190 at 2750fps which should be a snap in a 24 inch barrel. That will lay on a hard hit and great performance on anything out to 500 or more yards if you are good enough with your 06.

Personally I have shot the 190g Hornady over 2800fps in my rifle and the recoil is not harsh at all.

Beyond 350y I find you need a range finder anyway, an ultra magnum won't change that.

If you need something bigger than the 06 I tend to agree the WSM in a handy package like a M70 Extreme Weather would be a nice rifle.

 

[6mm Remington]

I'd say go with the 30-06 or the 300 WSM. Either of those two will suite you just fine. There is nothing, and I mean nothing wrong with the 30-06! They are easy for most folks to shoot whether it's a 165, 180, or 200 grain bullet, and are typically very accurate. I had no problem hitting gallon milk/water jugs at 400 and 500 yards with my Ruger #1B in 30-06 with a 4x Leupold and the bullets penetrated and expanded as well as the 300 WSM of my sons that I shot. I think that the 300 WSM is very popular and should be around for us for a good long time.

David

 

[Guy Miner]

Love all this talk about these GREAT cartridges.

Funny, but it's really only a matter of about 300 fps that separate most of them...

.30-06 = 180 at 2800, 200 at 2600
.300 WSM = 180 at 3000, 200 at 2900
.300 Win Mag = 180 at 3100, 200 at 2900

The WSM and the Win Mag are real close to being the same, with a slight edge going to the good ol' .300 Win mag. Both are 200 - 300 fps faster than the .30-06, with correspondingly more recoil & blast, but certainly tolerable for most riflemen.

The question really comes down to if the additional velocity is worth the extra recoil & blast to you or not... Does it extend your practical range enough to matter? In the field, I've seen little practical difference between the various cartridges.

I love the .30's and always have. Grew up shooting .30-06's, branched out to .30-30, .308, and the .300 WSM & .300 Win mag. All treated me well.

Regards, Guy

 

[ajvigs]

You guys really know your stuff. Still not set which direction I want to go, and I am in no rush. But I did find this:

http://www.winchesterguns.com/products/ ... mid=535142

Seems ideal for what I want, comes in the calibers I was looking at, but was discontinued....

 

[wildgene]

30-06 isnt out yet. For those who shoot it, how does it handle heavier bullets like the 185's and up? I would want to try out the 190 ABLR.

Also, what do you think an ideal weight 300 WM or 300 WSM rifle should be around loaded up with a scope and all? Also, barrel length? I may even consider a muzzle brake if I go with one of the mags.

...the 190ABLR should shoot fine outta any of them (.30-06, .300 WSM, .300 WM), but it will be relatively anemic out of the '06 (MV 2650fps) compared to the .300 WSM (2950fps) or .300 WM (3000fps). My main concern would be magazine length/ seating depth w/ a 1.490" bullet, especially in the long case/ short neck .300 WM...

...my .300 WSM Tikka T3 Lite has a 22.5" barrel, I'm getting 3050fps w/ 180gr. bullets, 3200fps w/ 165gr. bullets w/ RL-17, rifle w/ a VX-3 4.5X14 is an oz. or two over 7#'s, still under 8#'s loaded, w/ a Butler Cr. sling, recoil is very manageable. Browning A/ X-Bolts have a 23" barrel, weigh 3-4oz. more, Featherweights are 24" & another 3-4oz., a Weatherby Vanguard, about a 1/2# heavier. None of the .300 WSMs I've owned/ shot have near the "felt recoil" of most of the .300 WMs I've shot (my opinion), & most have been very accurate. Whether it's the compact powder profile, burn profile, or whatever, they seem to shoot good...

 

[big rifle man]

Add another vote for the .300WSM. I can easily get just under 3100FPS with a 180 grain and RL17 and it is accurate. Nice thing is that it fits in a short action and most rifles are built around it making them light and pretty much compact. I find I'm going to still hunt for Elk in Colorado my .338RUM stays in the case and the Kimber Montana comes out.