Sas874runner
Handloader
- Oct 10, 2012
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I am loading 165 ab for a 30-06 @2.952 oal. Can someone give me some info on loading rounds close to lands and how to figure out what depth the lands are? What advantages to loading close to lands
lands and oal for remington 700 30-06
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joelkdouglas
Handloader
- Jun 5, 2011
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Sas874,
I load hunting rounds 0.02 inches off the lands. I use a Hornady gauge to figure out that measurement, but the Nosler manual (at least #6) outlines how to figure it out without a gauge. Essentially take a fired case, flatten one end to hold the bullet, and seat a bullet long. Color the bullet with a sharpie. Chamber the round. When you remove the case, even if the bullet is stuck in the rifling, there will be a mark on the bullet indicating the seating depth when the bullet is touching the lands. Repeat that process a time or three until you get a good feeling about the depth to the lands.
Make sense?
v/r
Joel
I load hunting rounds 0.02 inches off the lands. I use a Hornady gauge to figure out that measurement, but the Nosler manual (at least #6) outlines how to figure it out without a gauge. Essentially take a fired case, flatten one end to hold the bullet, and seat a bullet long. Color the bullet with a sharpie. Chamber the round. When you remove the case, even if the bullet is stuck in the rifling, there will be a mark on the bullet indicating the seating depth when the bullet is touching the lands. Repeat that process a time or three until you get a good feeling about the depth to the lands.
Make sense?
v/r
Joel
joelkdouglas
Handloader
- Jun 5, 2011
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Page 67 of Nosler #7 outlines a similar process.
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Sas874runner
Handloader
- Oct 10, 2012
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Makes sense. Next question is. The max oal for this round is 3.340. The measurement comes out to 3.495 to the lands. That emans the closest I can get is .155 to the lands. Is that correct?
G
Guest
Guest
No, you can load as long as you like. The COL listed for the round (3.340") is the SAAMI specification COL. What that means is, as long as a commercial ammo manufacturer keeps their ammo 3.340" or shorter, it should cycle reliably in any 30-06 made to SAAMI specs. You as a handloader do not have to worry about whether or not your ammo will cycle in my 30-06 or anyone elses, so loading longer or shorter is entirely up to you. I generally measure the distance to the lands, as you've done, and then load a round at .020" below that length, and test fit it into the magazine. If it won't fit and feed reliably, I keep shortening it up until it does. Then I re-check the length, and write that down as my "maximum magazine length" for that rifle.
Sometimes the distance to the lands is far shorter than the magazine length, like in my Rem700 Classic in 8x57. Because the 700 action only comes in short and long lengths, the long length action is designed for stuff up to the length of the 375H&H. My 8x57 is too long for the short 700 action, but it's also 5mm shorter than the 30-06, which is a half inch shorter than the 375H&H. So for my 8x57, the throat length is the limiting factor, as I can load it to fit in the magazine but the bullet will be seated out so far it won't chamber. Conversely, for my 270Wby, I can't load within .020" of the lands and fit a round in the magazine, due to the long freebore for which Weatherby chamberings are known. So you can adjust COL to fit your particular rifle. That's how handloading gives you the ability to be far more accurate than most factory loads, for most rifles. You are only making ammo that has to fit a single rifle chamber, rather than any rifle chamber of that cartridge, from any of more than a dozen manufacturers, over literally more than a hundred years span of manufacturing, in some cases. Mass produced factory ammo has to work in any rifle chambered for that round. Your handloads only have to work in your rifle.
I know that's a long-winded explanation, but I figured you might want to have that info moving forward. Enjoy the hobby!
Sometimes the distance to the lands is far shorter than the magazine length, like in my Rem700 Classic in 8x57. Because the 700 action only comes in short and long lengths, the long length action is designed for stuff up to the length of the 375H&H. My 8x57 is too long for the short 700 action, but it's also 5mm shorter than the 30-06, which is a half inch shorter than the 375H&H. So for my 8x57, the throat length is the limiting factor, as I can load it to fit in the magazine but the bullet will be seated out so far it won't chamber. Conversely, for my 270Wby, I can't load within .020" of the lands and fit a round in the magazine, due to the long freebore for which Weatherby chamberings are known. So you can adjust COL to fit your particular rifle. That's how handloading gives you the ability to be far more accurate than most factory loads, for most rifles. You are only making ammo that has to fit a single rifle chamber, rather than any rifle chamber of that cartridge, from any of more than a dozen manufacturers, over literally more than a hundred years span of manufacturing, in some cases. Mass produced factory ammo has to work in any rifle chambered for that round. Your handloads only have to work in your rifle.
I know that's a long-winded explanation, but I figured you might want to have that info moving forward. Enjoy the hobby!
DrMike
Ballistician
- Nov 8, 2006
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Dubyam has provided an excellent summary of making a custom cartridge for your rifle. Here's to your success in this endeavour. Though some may speak of hand loading as madness, it is a fine and pleasant misery.
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Sas874runner
Handloader
- Oct 10, 2012
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Is there a minimun length a bullet has to be seated in the case
G
Guest
Guest
If I understand you correctly, you're asking what the minimum amount of bullet "in the case" should be. If that's what you're asking (and I'm pretty sure it is) the answer for me has always been the shorter of either one caliber's length or to the base of the neck. So for my 270Wby, I seat the bullet at least .277 deep into the neck. For a 300WinMag, which has a neck shorter than .308", just seat to the base of the neck, minimum.
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Sas874runner
Handloader
- Oct 10, 2012
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Glad we understand each other on here. I could have wrote that better. Thanks for the advice
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Sas874runner
Handloader
- Oct 10, 2012
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Now but increasing the oal the case space also increases. Will that lower case pressure?
DrMike
Ballistician
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Sas874runner":5o3y4s2u said:
Marginally. Pressure will be lowered by an insignificant, though measurable amount.
G
Guest
Guest
Yep, the good doctor is correct. Right up to about .010" short of the lands, then because of the short jump into high resistance, pressure will dramatically increase. The lesson here is not to work up a safe load at shorter COL and then load it near to or touching the lands without backing down a grain or two.
Interesting stuff, thanks guy's.
I've only just started loading for my 30/06 and fussed over working out depth of lands etc. then when I measured what would fit into the magazine it worked out the 3.340" would just clear the mag (Tikka T3) anyway so 3.340" COAL it is, all feeds good.
Off to the range tomorrow to test weather permitting (been pretty damn hot over here with total fire bans which closes down the range).
Cheers,
Waldo
I've only just started loading for my 30/06 and fussed over working out depth of lands etc. then when I measured what would fit into the magazine it worked out the 3.340" would just clear the mag (Tikka T3) anyway so 3.340" COAL it is, all feeds good.
Off to the range tomorrow to test weather permitting (been pretty damn hot over here with total fire bans which closes down the range).
Cheers,
Waldo
I may be the outlier in this data sample, but here's another point of view for hunting ammo...
When I first started reloading, I spent a lot of time futzing with powder charge and seating depth trying to find that one, perfect combination of variables that made magic. In the end, I usually found that I could get really really good results by just sticking with book max COAL, checking for chambering and magazine function, and just varying the powder charge. That gets me under 1"@100 in every rifle. (Custom and plane jane factory guns alike.)
In the end, the safety factor for anyone else who may find themselves using my ammo in their gun, trumps any minute advantage a hot load or oober dialed in seating depth may give me in the field.
I know this goes against the 'I must tinker with it infinitely' reloader mentality, but it works for me.
When I first started reloading, I spent a lot of time futzing with powder charge and seating depth trying to find that one, perfect combination of variables that made magic. In the end, I usually found that I could get really really good results by just sticking with book max COAL, checking for chambering and magazine function, and just varying the powder charge. That gets me under 1"@100 in every rifle. (Custom and plane jane factory guns alike.)
In the end, the safety factor for anyone else who may find themselves using my ammo in their gun, trumps any minute advantage a hot load or oober dialed in seating depth may give me in the field.
I know this goes against the 'I must tinker with it infinitely' reloader mentality, but it works for me.
