load development

[onlybrowning]

I went to the range today to test the effect of primers regarding accuracy and velocity with my .325 WSM.

I tested with 5 shot groups using Federal 210M, 215M, CCI 200, 250, WLR, WLRM, and Rem 9 1/2.

I stopped shooting the gun after I got to the CCI 250 primer because of a lack of time.

I could not believe the effect the primer had on accuracy. I was using the Nosler recommended load of 62.5 grains of H 4350 with a 200 grain AccuBond. I had shot this load before using Fed 215M and WLRM primers with pretty good results. Loads were just over 1 inch.

Today, all groups shot were about 1-1.25 inches. Then I got to the CCI 200 primer. I shot all 5 shots into a group measuring about .4--! I could not believe it! I was very pleasantly surprised.

One thing I didn't love to see...My velocities are at about 2670 fps with this load. This is not very fast for this cartridge, especially when the guy with me was shooting 200 grain CT ballistic tips to over 2600fps with his .338 Federal with a shorter barrel than me!
I will post pics later.

So the best load so far is:

.325 WSM
Winchester brass
62.5 grains H4350
CCI 200 primer
COAL 2.845"
Velocity in a 23" barrel=2670fps

 

[JD338]

Sounds like you found a nice load.
Duplicate that load and work with some different powder charge weights.
You may be able to pick up some velocity.
I'll take the accuracy over the speed, which you already have. :wink:

JD338

 

[onlybrowning]

Sounds like you found a nice load.
Duplicate that load and work with some different powder charge weights.
You may be able to pick up some velocity.
I'll take the accuracy over the speed, which you already have. :wink:

JD338

That was the discussion I had with my friend today. I think I will try to squeeze some more velocity out of it using those primers, but I will not sacrifice accuracy. I feel like I am not getting the potential out of using this much powder, a huge muzzleblast, and considerable recoil. I would like to see the velocities closer to what Nosler says.

 

[JD338]

I do not have any experience loading any of the short mags, but I think I would give RL19 a try. :wink: An extra 200-250 fps couldn't hurt.

JD338

 

[FOTIS]

SO what was the diff in group sizes for each primer? Did you get a velocity reading for each?



Here you go:

Cartridge : .325 WSM
Bullet : .323, 200, Nosler AccuBond 54374
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 2.860 inch or 72.64 mm
Barrel Length : 24.0 inch or 609.6 mm

Predicted Data for Indicated Charges of the Following Powders.

Matching Maximum Pressure: 63000 psi, or 434 MPa

or a maximum loading ratio or filling of 105 %

These calculations refer to your specified settings in QuickLOAD 'Cartridge Dimensions' window.
C A U T I O N : any load listed can result in a powder charge that falls below minimum suggested
loads or exceeds maximum suggested loads as presented in current handloading manuals. Understand
that all of the listed powders can be unsuitable for the given combination of cartridge, bullet
and gun. Actual load order can vary, depending upon lot-to-lot powder and component variations.
USE ONLY FOR COMPARISON !

108 loads produced a Loading Ratio below user-defined minimum of 90%. These powders have been skipped.

Powder type Filling/Loading Ratio Charge Charge Vel. Prop.Burnt P max P muzz B_Time
% Grains Gramm fps % psi psi ms
--------------------------------- -----------------------------------------------------------------
Ramshot Hunter 100.2 68.3 4.43 2931 99.7 63000 10109 1.148 ! Near Maximum !
Hodgdon H4350 103.0 65.6 4.25 2930 99.9 63000 9952 1.141 ! Near Maximum !
Winchester 760 97.6 66.1 4.28 2924 99.4 63000 10102 1.152 ! Near Maximum !
Somchem S365 105.0 66.8 4.33 2916 100.0 61501 9367 1.164 ! Near Maximum !
Norma URP 102.9 65.1 4.22 2911 100.0 63000 9683 1.156 ! Near Maximum !
Vihtavuori N550 100.0 65.4 4.23 2911 100.0 63000 9817 1.161 ! Near Maximum !
Bofors RP19 ~approximation 103.0 65.2 4.22 2911 100.0 63000 9680 1.156 ! Near Maximum !
Norma 204 102.2 67.5 4.38 2900 98.0 63000 10052 1.147 ! Near Maximum !
Hodgdon H414 93.8 63.9 4.14 2895 99.6 63000 9813 1.162 ! Near Maximum !
Ramshot BigGame 99.2 63.4 4.11 2890 100.0 63000 9321 1.157 ! Near Maximum !
SNPE Vectan SP 11 96.2 63.5 4.12 2889 100.0 63000 9308 1.157 ! Near Maximum !
Raufoss RA4 105.0 67.2 4.35 2884 97.8 61862 10011 1.156 ! Near Maximum !
Bofors RP4 ~approximation 105.0 67.2 4.35 2884 97.8 61862 10011 1.156 ! Near Maximum !
IMR 4895 94.8 58.7 3.80 2873 100.0 63000 8751 1.143 ! Near Maximum !
Norma MRP 105.0 70.1 4.54 2869 98.2 53331 10823 1.222
Raufoss RA11 93.5 59.9 3.88 2869 100.0 63000 9185 1.166 ! Near Maximum !
Bofors RP11 ~approximation 93.5 59.9 3.88 2869 100.0 63000 9185 1.166 ! Near Maximum !
Alliant Reloder-15 93.5 59.9 3.88 2869 100.0 63000 9185 1.166 ! Near Maximum !
Norma 203B 94.0 60.1 3.90 2866 100.0 63000 9112 1.167 ! Near Maximum !
ADI AR 2209 105.0 66.8 4.33 2863 97.5 58791 10101 1.173 ! Near Maximum !
Hodgdon H380 94.8 62.0 4.02 2863 100.0 63000 9327 1.169 ! Near Maximum !
Accurate 4350 105.0 64.3 4.16 2859 100.0 59276 9588 1.203 ! Near Maximum !
Norma 203 old 95.3 61.7 4.00 2857 100.0 63000 8971 1.179 ! Near Maximum !
PB Clermont PCL 516 91.5 62.3 4.04 2854 100.0 63000 9221 1.161 ! Near Maximum !
Rottweil R903 100.3 61.7 4.00 2851 100.0 63000 8890 1.179 ! Near Maximum !
IMR 4320 95.5 60.1 3.90 2851 100.0 63000 8849 1.153 ! Near Maximum !
Alliant Reloder-19 105.0 67.2 4.35 2846 97.4 57319 10125 1.192 ! Near Maximum !
Somchem S355 97.5 61.1 3.96 2846 100.0 63000 8906 1.174 ! Near Maximum !
SNPE Vectan SP 9 91.3 60.3 3.91 2843 100.0 63000 8888 1.163 ! Near Maximum !
Rottweil R907 99.7 62.6 4.06 2839 98.9 63000 9378 1.167 ! Near Maximum !
IMR 4007 SSC 96.5 62.6 4.06 2838 98.9 63000 9372 1.167 ! Near Maximum !
ADI AR 2208 96.0 59.6 3.86 2833 100.0 63000 8871 1.158 ! Near Maximum !
Hodgdon VARGET 96.3 59.6 3.86 2833 100.0 63000 8871 1.158 ! Near Maximum !
Rottweil R904 105.0 66.2 4.29 2831 96.6 60610 9653 1.172 ! Near Maximum !
IMR 7828 SSC 105.0 69.0 4.47 2829 95.1 54084 10448 1.212
IMR 4064 96.8 58.5 3.79 2824 100.0 63000 8682 1.163 ! Near Maximum !
Accurate 2520 90.4 59.6 3.86 2820 100.0 63000 8410 1.184 ! Near Maximum !
IMR 3031 92.9 55.6 3.60 2819 100.0 63000 8222 1.173 ! Near Maximum !
Bofors RP14 ~approximation 105.0 67.2 4.35 2819 97.1 55979 9988 1.206 ! Near Maximum !
Hodgdon H4895 96.1 59.5 3.85 2817 100.0 63000 8382 1.162 ! Near Maximum !
IMR 4350 105.0 64.3 4.17 2816 96.6 58419 9724 1.192 ! Near Maximum !
Accurate 4064 99.4 59.4 3.85 2815 100.0 63000 8399 1.201 ! Near Maximum !
Somchem S385 105.0 67.9 4.40 2805 98.1 56683 9706 1.219 ! Near Maximum !
Vihtavuori N150 102.7 62.0 4.02 2803 100.0 63000 8377 1.174 ! Near Maximum !
Vihtavuori N540 93.3 60.3 3.91 2801 100.0 63000 8399 1.174 ! Near Maximum !
Vihtavuori N560 105.0 68.7 4.45 2800 93.9 50944 10635 1.249
Rottweil R902 93.4 57.6 3.74 2800 100.0 63000 8398 1.181 ! Near Maximum !
Norma 202 91.0 57.3 3.71 2797 100.0 63000 8231 1.176 ! Near Maximum !
Vihtavuori N140 99.0 60.8 3.94 2796 100.0 63000 8318 1.169 ! Near Maximum !
ADI AR 2213 105.0 67.9 4.40 2790 94.6 52809 10246 1.226
Accurate 2700 97.5 64.5 4.18 2788 98.7 63000 8825 1.172 ! Near Maximum !
Accurate 2495 92.4 55.9 3.62 2786 100.0 63000 8072 1.209 ! Near Maximum !
Raufoss RA15 105.0 67.9 4.40 2781 96.1 50313 10351 1.260
Alliant Reloder-22 105.0 67.9 4.40 2781 96.1 50313 10351 1.260
Bofors RP5/NP ~approximation 105.0 67.9 4.40 2781 96.1 50313 10351 1.260
ADI AR 2206 90.6 57.4 3.72 2772 100.0 63000 8170 1.165 ! Near Maximum !
Accurate MAGPRO 105.0 71.4 4.63 2769 91.7 49717 10555 1.268
Vihtavuori N135 99.0 57.4 3.72 2760 100.0 63000 7716 1.186 ! Near Maximum !
Hodgdon H4831 SC 105.0 67.9 4.40 2750 93.5 53659 9690 1.228
IMR 4831 105.0 64.3 4.17 2740 98.8 51315 9480 1.271
Somchem S335 91.2 57.1 3.70 2730 100.0 63000 7626 1.187 ! Near Maximum !
Rottweil R905 105.0 66.7 4.32 2708 93.2 48647 9814 1.284
Vihtavuori N133 92.9 54.4 3.53 2704 100.0 63000 7251 1.181 ! Near Maximum !
Winchester WXR 105.0 66.5 4.31 2700 94.7 46036 10074 1.313
SNPE Vectan SP 12 105.0 71.7 4.65 2686 92.9 45716 10205 1.308
PB Clermont PCL 517 105.0 71.7 4.65 2680 92.7 45465 10193 1.312
Ramshot Magnum (Big Boy) 105.0 71.6 4.64 2676 92.6 45220 10185 1.315
IMR 7828 105.0 65.3 4.23 2654 92.0 44688 9829 1.324
ADI AP 2214 105.0 69.7 4.52 2640 92.0 45754 9690 1.311
Vihtavuori N165 105.0 66.5 4.31 2639 95.7 47346 9041 1.308
Alliant Reloder-25 105.0 66.8 4.33 2639 97.1 41549 9998 1.367
Hodgdon H4831 105.0 65.3 4.23 2632 91.4 46900 9267 1.305
Vihtavuori N160 105.0 64.4 4.17 2630 93.8 48755 8892 1.294
Accurate 3100 105.0 63.5 4.12 2537 96.3 40927 8897 1.426
Norma MRP 2 105.0 67.2 4.35 2534 89.8 37201 9769 1.448
Vihtavuori N570 105.0 70.8 4.59 2488 80.7 36126 9887 1.466
Hodgdon H1000 105.0 66.5 4.31 2478 88.3 38375 9027 1.425
Hodgdon Retumbo 105.0 67.6 4.38 2398 89.2 32797 9365 1.522
Vihtavuori N170 105.0 66.5 4.31 2344 79.8 34259 8209 1.524
Vihtavuori 24N41 105.0 71.6 4.64 2335 72.0 35269 8200 1.496
ADI AR 2218 105.0 71.6 4.64 2317 72.6 33100 8817 1.533
Hodgdon H870 105.0 69.4 4.50 2274 77.3 29053 8754 1.619
Hodgdon US 869 105.0 71.6 4.64 2240 73.7 29824 8264 1.608
Hodgdon 50BMG 105.0 68.2 4.42 2167 63.6 28850 7405 1.636
SNPE Vectan SP 13 105.0 68.7 4.45 2115 71.3 25812 7438 1.717
PB Clermont PCL 513/520/9520 105.0 68.7 4.45 2055 67.7 24446 7085 1.759
Vihtavuori 20N29 105.0 72.3 4.69 2038 64.7 24220 7103 1.763
Accurate 8700 105.0 68.8 4.46 2018 66.3 24124 6844 1.771
NC A3502 ,test only 105.0 65.7 4.26 1914 46.1 24309 5115 1.783
TLP A 502(RH) ,test only 105.0 65.7 4.26 1893 49.9 22554 5453 1.834
V1734 7-multiperf ,test only 105.0 65.7 4.26 1368 22.8 13114 2501 2.351

 

[Antelope_Sniper]

The CCI 200 are a VERY good primer with stick powders, not so good with ball powders.

 

[FOTIS]

Ball powders can use a "hotter cap" and the ccI 200 is the coldest out there.

 

[onlybrowning]

I did take velocities for each, but I am not where my load data is right now. The changes in velocity were very minimal even when going from a magnum primer to a regular LR primer.

JD338, I have tried RL19 in this gun, and the results were not impressive. This load of H4350 happens to be the one that Nosler claims as most accurate. Guess they were right. It is funny because I did not look at the Nosler load data until after I had shot the initial test groups.

I just hope I can get somewhere near where Nosler did with regards to velocity. I think a 200 grain AccuBond at 2670 fps or so will be enough for anything I am likely to encounter, though.

 

[onlybrowning]

Ball powders can use a "hotter cap" and the ccI 200 is the coldest out there.

I worry about using a cold primer with 62.5 grains of H4350. What does everyone think? I have studied a lot of load data for this cartridge, and about half uses a LRP and half LRMP. The way I looked at is, I use a Federal 210M LR primer in my .270 Win. with 59.0 grains of H4831. That always goes boom when it counts...can three and a half grains of powder make the difference.?

Where do primer companies draw the line for needing a Magnum primer?

 

[Antelope_Sniper]

I don't know about he manufactor's exactly say, but that .4" group speaks really loud to me. In your .270, where you are also using H4831, I'd suggest trying the CCI200. I average about .4" with the 200's, about .75 with anything else.