Load problems- Feel like starting over....Where do I start?

[cloverleaf]

Found some powder finally, so I finished loading a box of 50 rds and took them to the range today. New pond of powder for the last 21 rds, so I shot two seperate groups, otherwise every thing else should have been the same. 75 Gr Hornady V Max's over 40 Gr of 4350. BOTH Groups shot 2.5 high and about that in size. Cases/ primers looked fine to me.
Historically. this one is point of aim, and at an inch or less. For years... (Sigh....) Ok maybe just a bad day,

So I pick up another tried and supposedly true load. 100BT over 38 Gr of 4350. Usually right around an inch somtimes less. First shot misses the target high at 100 yds... WT Heck.. next shot splits the case at the web. Tried one more and split that case too... OK- put the rifle away and go home... This is a "Nosler approved load"

This is the second trip to the range where I have split a case (S) ..... Last time was different powder. Dont like it. Maybe its just old brass. 4+ firings. Thats a whole other thing. That paper clip trick to find imminent case head separation aint working for me...

So before I put the rifle away. I chambered a couple rounds and could see rifling marks on both bullets. Keep in mind I measure every round, 2.564 +/- .002 or less. COAL couldnt feel any difficulty closing the bolt.

Obviously, I can go back and seat the bullets deeper, But then the bullet shape has changed, cause Ive been loading this bullet/ load/ brass for 20 years.... Ive got some newer brass. What else am I doing wrong...?

Please only call me stupid once....This getting frustrating and obviously not as safe as I want to be.. Thanks. CL

 

[gbflyer]

Throw brass away. They’re done. I bet your groups will come back with new brass.

 

[ozarkpugs]

Bullets touching the lands doesn't give any room for change in pressure because of powder variation from lot to lot or temperature change . I would carefully recheck all measurements and back bullets up a few thousands and powder down a couple of grains and start over . Different bullets touch rifling at different OAl .

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[baltz526]

Pull one of the old load bullets and compare it to the new bullets.

 

[cloverleaf]

Thanks guys. Additional question- given that I have been separating cases all to frequently, some one give me the low down on how to do a "Shoulder bump" again. I generally full lenght size because my bolt face isnt perfectly right angle to the bore (I think- it wiuold be a long post and I have discussed this before_ point is am I over working my brass- how do you know?

 

[Cleveland48]

I have to use a headspace gauge. With my 416 rem I did not have a gauge, so I neck sized until the brass got to where it was hard to chamber. Then I backed the FL die off about 1.5 turns. Then slightly tightened the sizing die down little bit at a time until the bolt would close with minimal effort. I have since had a headspace gauge cut for the 416 rem, so that just makes it a lot easier lol. Hopefully you can get it sorted out.


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[gbflyer]

Get a polished case. You can put a very thin amount of black grease, maybe even something off the edge of a case lube pad that’s kind of dirty, right at the neck/shoulder junction. Just a little bit. Start with your die backed out a ways. When the case starts to make contact with the shoulder it will spread the black stuff down the shoulder. That’s all you need for a bump.

 

[jimbires]

these make shoulder bump quick , easy , and repeatable . shop around you might find them cheaper?

https://www.brownells.com/reloading/she ... 39926.aspx


any time I tried to back the die up away from the shellholder , my shoulder bumps got very inconsistent . if you don't anneal , that will probably add to the inconsistencies .

a die is threaded 7/8-14 . meaning 14 threads per inch . one full turn is about .071" . half a turn is about .036" . quarter turn is about .015" . I " think " a minimum chamber to a maximum chamber should be within .010" . this gives you an idea how fine of die adjustments you will be trying to make

 

[Nimrod84]

To second what gbflyer wrote, if the brass is old (not necessarily been fired a lot but in terms of years), than it could have been cold worked, attacked by fumes, etc. So I would recommend trying some new brass along with seconding what Ozarkpugs and batlz526 wrote.

gbflyer's use of grease to set your brass sizing works. I like to have numbers to work off of... So, I normally take a fired or twice fired (previously neck sized) case and adjust the die via trial and error until I reduce its (what I'll call) shoulder dimension by about 0.002. A decent video is at: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zDaYgQmUGss. I don't compare to SAMMI specs, I adjust off of my fired brass dimensions.

I use either either:

Hornady headspace gauges with a caliper - https://www.hornady.com/headspace-bushings#!/ they can be brought just about anywhere: https://www.midwayusa.com/product/1012743827/ - Brownells - Natchess - Grafs and Sons - etc. Video on its use is at: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_lR3Dx-Er-I

or the RCBS Precision Mic Gauge - https://www.rcbs.com/case-processing/me ... c/564.html. Usually I buy at Brownells or MidwayUSA.

For semi's I use a min. chamber gauge like: https://sheridanengineering.com/product ... on-gauges/. I'm not going for brass life and I believe it provides a good safety check.

 

[gbflyer]

To second what gbflyer wrote, if the brass is old (not necessarily been fired a lot but in terms of years), than it could have been cold worked, attacked by fumes, etc. So I would recommend trying some new brass along with seconding what Ozarkpugs and batlz526 wrote.

gbflyer's use of grease to set your brass sizing works. I like to have numbers to work off of... So, I normally take a fired or twice fired (previously neck sized) case and adjust the die via trial and error until I reduce its (what I'll call) shoulder dimension by about 0.002. A decent video is at: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zDaYgQmUGss. I don't compare to SAMMI specs, I adjust off of my fired brass dimensions.

I use either either:

Hornady headspace gauges with a caliper - https://www.hornady.com/headspace-bushings#!/ they can be brought just about anywhere: https://www.midwayusa.com/product/1012743827/ - Brownells - Natchess - Grafs and Sons - etc. Video on its use is at: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_lR3Dx-Er-I

or the RCBS Precision Mic Gauge - https://www.rcbs.com/case-processing/me ... c/564.html. Usually I buy at Brownells or MidwayUSA.

For semi's I use a min. chamber gauge like: https://sheridanengineering.com/product ... on-gauges/. I'm not going for brass life and I believe it provides a good safety check.

Those are great tools. Wilson also makes a case gage. Lots of backordered models for popular cartridges, I needed one for .348 Win and lucked out that they had one in stock.

https://lewilson.com/gages

 

[Nimrod84]

gbflyer,

I have a LE Wison gauge or two as well, 30-06 and I think two pistol.

I wasn't intending to provide an all-encompassing list... Lyman, RCBS and others make the case gauges as well (mostly semi-pistol). There are a lot of good tools that range from a nut with an appropriate sized hole drilled into it, to using pistol brass to determine "shoulder bump". Lots of options out their to fit everyone's budget and skill set.

I guess the best two links I can offer cloverleaf are:

http://bulletin.accurateshooter.com/202 ... lder-bump/

http://bulletin.accurateshooter.com/201 ... lder-bump/

 

[cloverleaf]

Thanks for the replies and info! Much t think about. Will update when I have a chance. CL

 

[gbflyer]

gbflyer,

I have a LE Wison gauge or two as well, 30-06 and I think two pistol.

I wasn't intending to provide an all-encompassing list... Lyman, RCBS and others make the case gauges as well (mostly semi-pistol). There are a lot of good tools that range from a nut with an appropriate sized hole drilled into it, to using pistol brass to determine "shoulder bump". Lots of options out their to fit everyone's budget and skill set.

I guess the best two links I can offer cloverleaf are:

http://bulletin.accurateshooter.com/202 ... lder-bump/

http://bulletin.accurateshooter.com/201 ... lder-bump/

I ream a stub gage for every barrel I chamber. Makes it super easy.

Good list there for folks.

 

[lhsako]

Cl, Make sure the basics are covered. Clean bore, all stock and scope screws are tight. Good luck !