Looking for some QuickLoad help

[BigBoreDan]

I have a pound of Reloder 10x on my bench and am thinking of trying it in my 444 Marlin and 45-70. Specifically I am looking for data for the Barnes 225gr. XPB in the 444 and the 250gr. TSX in the 45-70. Both rifles are Marlins an 1895 GBL 45-70 and a 444P Outfitter and both sport 18.5" barrels. Any help is greatly appreciated

 

[jimbires]

Dan , long time no talk , good to see you again . here is some info , hope this helps .
the max load in the 444 is working out to be 123.3 % case fill using the RL10x powder with the 225 XPB bullet . that's not going to work . here is the printout .
Cartridge : .444 Marlin
Bullet : .429, 225, Barnes 'X' PB 42922
Useable Case Capaci: 46.707 grain H2O = 3.033 cm³
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 2.570 inch = 65.28 mm
Barrel Length : 18.5 inch = 469.9 mm
Powder : Alliant Reloder-10x

Predicted data by increasing and decreasing the given charge,
incremented in steps of 2.0% of nominal charge.
CAUTION: Figures exceed maximum and minimum recommended loads !

Step Fill. Charge Vel. Energy Pmax Pmuz Prop.Burnt B_Time
% % Grains fps ft.lbs psi psi % ms

-20.0 99 40.32 1936 1872 24633 4014 80.8 1.238
-18.0 102 41.33 1989 1976 26490 4159 82.4 1.201
-16.0 104 42.34 2042 2083 28515 4301 84.0 1.164
-14.0 107 43.34 2096 2194 30709 4440 85.5 1.128
-12.0 109 44.35 2150 2309 33096 4574 86.9 1.092
-10.0 112 45.36 2204 2428 35701 4704 88.3 1.056
-08.0 114 46.37 2259 2550 38545 4828 89.6 1.022
-06.0 117 47.38 2314 2676 41657 4946 90.9 0.988
-04.0 119 48.38 2370 2806 45070 5057 92.0 0.956 ! Near Maximum !
-02.0 122 49.39 2426 2939 48821 5160 93.2 0.925 ! Near Maximum !
+00.0 124 50.40 2482 3077 52956 5256 94.2 0.895 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+02.0 127 51.41 2538 3218 57534 5342 95.2 0.866 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+04.0 129 52.42 2594 3363 62607 5419 96.0 0.839 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+06.0 131 53.42 2651 3512 68259 5486 96.9 0.811 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+08.0 134 54.43 2709 3665 74576 5541 97.6 0.785 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+10.0 136 55.44 2766 3823 81670 5585 98.2 0.759 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!

Results caused by ± 10% powder lot-to-lot burning rate variation using nominal charge
Data for burning rate increased by 10% relative to nominal value:
+Ba 124 50.40 2626 3446 65899 5277 98.9 0.825 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Data for burning rate decreased by 10% relative to nominal value:
-Ba 124 50.40 2295 2632 42092 4956 85.6 0.988



the 45-70 is maxing out at 50.4 grains . here is the printout .

Cartridge : .45-70 Govt. SAAMI
Bullet : .458, 250, Barnes 'TSX' FN 45841
Useable Case Capaci: 60.530 grain H2O = 3.930 cm³
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 2.550 inch = 64.77 mm
Barrel Length : 18.5 inch = 469.9 mm
Powder : Alliant Reloder-10x

Predicted data by increasing and decreasing the given charge,
incremented in steps of 2.0% of nominal charge.
CAUTION: Figures exceed maximum and minimum recommended loads !

Step Fill. Charge Vel. Energy Pmax Pmuz Prop.Burnt B_Time
% % Grains fps ft.lbs psi psi % ms

-20.0 77 40.32 1668 1545 16561 3339 72.6 1.462
-18.0 79 41.33 1708 1619 17420 3469 73.9 1.429
-16.0 80 42.34 1748 1696 18329 3600 75.3 1.397
-14.0 82 43.34 1789 1776 19295 3731 76.6 1.366
-12.0 84 44.35 1829 1858 20318 3861 77.9 1.335
-10.0 86 45.36 1870 1942 21402 3992 79.2 1.305
-08.0 88 46.37 1912 2029 22553 4122 80.4 1.276
-06.0 90 47.38 1953 2118 23773 4250 81.7 1.247
-04.0 92 48.38 1995 2210 25069 4378 82.9 1.219 ! Near Maximum !
-02.0 94 49.39 2037 2304 26445 4504 84.1 1.191 ! Near Maximum !
+00.0 96 50.40 2080 2401 27907 4628 85.2 1.164 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+02.0 98 51.41 2122 2501 29462 4750 86.4 1.138 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+04.0 100 52.42 2165 2602 31117 4870 87.5 1.112 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+06.0 101 53.42 2208 2707 32878 4986 88.5 1.087 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+08.0 103 54.43 2251 2813 34755 5100 89.6 1.062 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+10.0 105 55.44 2295 2923 36757 5210 90.5 1.037 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!

Results caused by ± 10% powder lot-to-lot burning rate variation using nominal charge
Data for burning rate increased by 10% relative to nominal value:
+Ba 96 50.40 2226 2750 33753 4923 93.0 1.081 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Data for burning rate decreased by 10% relative to nominal value:
-Ba 96 50.40 1911 2027 22967 4146 74.9 1.261

 

[BigBoreDan]

Thank you kindly ...that will help me out greatly. Have to use these non lead bullets here in CA and sometimes data is more than scarce.

 

[SJB358]

Hey Dan, long time no see buddy!

Yeah, I haven't messed with 10X in my 444 or 45-70, but I think it is sorta slow for bullets that light, at least to get full speed out of them.

Are you confined to 10X or can you get any RL7?

Anyhow, glad to see you around.

 

[DrMike]

I used quite a bit of 10X in my .356 and .358, but never used it in the larger bore cartridges. I would agree with Scotty, however, that it is somewhat on the slow side of optimal burn rates.

 

[BigBoreDan]

You know guys I thought that rl 10x would be a little on the slow side too but I stumbled across this data on RealGuns and said hmm...

http://www.realguns.com/loads/4570.htm

I thought a little ql data to corroborate it and I might give it a whirl

I do have more suitable powders like H4198 and AA1680 just checking on that 10x I originally bought it for my 350RM

 

[Oldtrader3]

Dan, I had really good luck with IMR 3031 in both my Guide Gen and in my .45-70 22' barrel rifle.

 

[Guest]

Great to see you on the board, Daniel! Hope you're having a good summer. Wish I could help on the 45/70, but I don't shoot or load for it. Just wanted to say it's nice to see you around. Hope the family is well.

 

[BigBoreDan]

Guys thanks again for the help and the warm welcome...it's much appreciated

 

[jimbires]

Dan , do you know about " cutting edge " bullets ? it would be another option for you guys in the lead free areas . these guys are local to me . I have not played with their bullets . I have heard both ways on them . some guys like others don't . Jim


http://site.cuttingedgebullets.com/

 

[BigBoreDan]

Thanks Jim I had looked at them before but it was before they came out with there pistol bullets, looks like I should be able to push their 200gr. offering faster than the Barnes. I was really hoping for something in the 250gr. Range for the 444 but nobody makes it.

 

[SJB358]

Thanks Jim I had looked at them before but it was before they came out with there pistol bullets, looks like I should be able to push their 200gr. offering faster than the Barnes. I was really hoping for something in the 250gr. Range for the 444 but nobody makes it.

It would be pretty cool for Nosler to offer something for the 444 and 45-70 shooters in California! HINT HINT!!!!

 

[BigBoreDan]

There are some decent offerings in .458 diameter but the .429 non lead bullets are really lacking. The Barnes XPB bullets lack the driving bands of the the TSX and can't be driven as fast as a result. A well designed 250gr. would be just the ticket IMO. I am also waiting on Barnes to release the 350gr. TSX FN that Buffalo Bore is loading as a component bullet as well.

I hope Nosler steps up and expands their non lead lineup as well

 

[BigBoreDan]

Hopefully that last post wasn't confusing...the 350gr. is for the 45-70 lol

 

[BigBoreDan]

Well went back to my standby load of H4198 and loaded my last 40 225gr. XPB in my 444. Unfortunately I just don't see a significant improvement out there in a non lead bullet right now...

I'm pretty sure that bullet at 2300fps ought to do for deer anyway.

 

[SJB358]

Yeah, I'd say so. I imagine not many deer will hold on to one of them!

 

[BigBoreDan]

Been doing a little research today and although expensive I think I am going to buy some of the NorthFork 325 or 350gr. Cup Point Solids for my 45-70 chores. I've been looking for one bullet to hunt both here in CA and everywhere else I might go and I think they will get the job done.

 

[SJB358]

Been doing a little research today and although expensive I think I am going to buy some of the NorthFork 325 or 350gr. Cup Point Solids for my 45-70 chores. I've been looking for one bullet to hunt both here in CA and everywhere else I might go and I think they will get the job done.

Those do look pretty good. Pricey bullets, but then again, how much do we really put through the 45-70. I'd be very interested in your results with those bullets Dan. I have a box of 350 FP's from Northfork on the bench. Need to give them a try one of these days.