DrMike
Ballistician
- Nov 8, 2006
- 37,314
- 5,980
For those living in the US, I note that Camera Land has a super sale on Minox scopes right now. I'm wondering how they are able to set their prices as low as they are advertising?
Minox Scopes
- Thread starter DrMike
- Start date
Scott Spencer
Handloader
- Mar 27, 2008
- 525
- 0
I'm waiting too, Scotty. I'm really liking that 2-10x40 ZA5 with BDC reticle for my .280! I've got a 3-9x40 Conquest on it right now but I like the idea of the 2-10x40 for it as well.beretzs":3fosw38u said:
- Thread starter
- #5
DrMike
Ballistician
- Nov 8, 2006
- 37,314
- 5,980
Scotty,
Did you see those prices? I'm astonished. I do believe Minox is the Swarovski or Kahles of the 21st Century. When people see how clear they are, the prices will rise to reflect demand.
Did you see those prices? I'm astonished. I do believe Minox is the Swarovski or Kahles of the 21st Century. When people see how clear they are, the prices will rise to reflect demand.
G
Guest
Guest
Minox has been making glass for birders for many years. We all act like optics freaks, but compared to the birders, we're all looking through paper towel tubes as far as what we know. If Minox can satisfy those folks, they'll blow hunters away. Only real question is durability, but the warranty is also spectacular, so I wouldn't worry.
Scott Spencer
Handloader
- Mar 27, 2008
- 525
- 0
Someone help a newbie out on the BDC reticles.... I understand they are for various distances but how do you find out what the 2nd and 3rd horizontal lines are for distance? I know that if I zero at 200 yds the center cross hair is for 200 yds. How do I find out what the other crosshairs represent? What if I only have a 200 yd range?
In short, would I be better off just getting the standard duplex and or spend the extra $30 for the BDC reticle?
In short, would I be better off just getting the standard duplex and or spend the extra $30 for the BDC reticle?
- Thread starter
- #9
DrMike
Ballistician
- Nov 8, 2006
- 37,314
- 5,980
I'm old school. I find I seldom use the BDC or other ranging devices, preferring to know the ballistics of my load. This compels me to think or get closer. Having said that, if one takes the time to learn to use ballistic reticles, they do work.
G
Guest
Guest
It's going to depend on the reticle, Scott. I personally like the ones that are delineated by a certain MOA change from the crosshair, where the scope company says, "the first cross mark below the crosshair is spaced 2moa below, the second is 5moa below, etc." but not every scope maker will share that information. You can figure it out if your rifle is accurate, though, by shooting a large target at 100yds. Just set a bullseye at the bottom of the target, and then shoot groups using each individual crossmark on the bullseye, in succession. If your rifle will group small enough to be smaller than the spacing, you can then measure group center to group center and get a good estimation of moa drop per stadia line. Once you know that, shoot out your range card and figure out where the lines are zeroed. If you only have a 200yd range, you really can't go afield and expect to shoot 400yds, so find a range, even if you have to drive or pay, and go test it out after you figure all of it out at 100yds.
I hope that's not too confusing.
Bottom line is, the other stadia lines represent different distances for different rifles/loads. My 270Wby is dramatically different than my 8x57, in terms of trajectory, so if I were using the same reticle in each, my range with the 270Wby and the bdc reticle would be farther out than the same cross point when shooting my 8x57 (because the 8 drops much faster than the 270Wby).
I hope that's not too confusing.
Bottom line is, the other stadia lines represent different distances for different rifles/loads. My 270Wby is dramatically different than my 8x57, in terms of trajectory, so if I were using the same reticle in each, my range with the 270Wby and the bdc reticle would be farther out than the same cross point when shooting my 8x57 (because the 8 drops much faster than the 270Wby).
Scott Spencer
Handloader
- Mar 27, 2008
- 525
- 0
Good deal and it all makes sense. I may just get the standard duplex reticle, get my primary load ballistics from my reloads at 100 yds, run them through my Sierra ballistics program,and then compare them with 200 yds shots.
I will probably never hunt where I might have to shoot 400-500 yds. I think I'm a decent shot to 300 yds with my standard duplex reticles and I am almost 99% sure I'll never shoot beyond 300 yds....even if I had the chance to shoot at 400 or 500. I like getting as close as possible anyway. :grin:
I will probably never hunt where I might have to shoot 400-500 yds. I think I'm a decent shot to 300 yds with my standard duplex reticles and I am almost 99% sure I'll never shoot beyond 300 yds....even if I had the chance to shoot at 400 or 500. I like getting as close as possible anyway. :grin:
G
Guest
Guest
Scott, if you're talking about the 280Rem, you're looking at something on the order of 275-285yds of "point blank range" if you zero it correctly. That would leave you holding just a tad high (top of vitals, still "on hair") at 300yds. I'd be more than happy to help you figure it out. You'd just zero to be x" high at 100yds, test it at 200yds (to compare to your ballistic program's simulation) and then adjust a little bit accordingly. That would keep your group center inside a 5-6" circle out to 275-285yds, meaning you don't even have to think about distance between the tip of the muzzle and 275-285yds. Are you familiar with the concept of maximum point blank range?
Scott Spencer
Handloader
- Mar 27, 2008
- 525
- 0
I am familiar with the PBR concept and I appreciate the comments. That is exactly what I was thinking. I usually set up my rifles to be 2" high at 100 yds. Once I get my final loads I'll shoot them at 100 yds (2" high) and then shoot them at 200 yds to compare to the ballistics program data.
I'd like to take my .280 to WY for a combo mule deer and antelope next fall. The 140AB is shooting .5 - .75" groups at 100 yds but that is happening when I shoot it slow - around 2840 - 2860 fps. I'm now about to try the 140PT and 150PT just to see if they shoot as well. If the 140 PT works, and I can get a little more velocity from it, I may use it instead of the AB on the hunt. The good thing is that I still have a year to play with it. :grin:
I'd like to take my .280 to WY for a combo mule deer and antelope next fall. The 140AB is shooting .5 - .75" groups at 100 yds but that is happening when I shoot it slow - around 2840 - 2860 fps. I'm now about to try the 140PT and 150PT just to see if they shoot as well. If the 140 PT works, and I can get a little more velocity from it, I may use it instead of the AB on the hunt. The good thing is that I still have a year to play with it. :grin:
G
Guest
Guest
Scott, when I run your numbers with the 140gr AB @ 2850fps, I get a 264yd PBRmax, and at 300yds, you're almost 6" low according to the simulation. Around 340-350, it's showing 10-11" low, which for me is "hold at the top of his back" distance. So you'd be "on hair" out to 350-360yds with the 140gr AB combo, as is. Of course, you have to verify the simulation at the range, but it should be relatively close. With the accuracy you have in those 100yd groups, if it holds up as .75moa out to 300-400yds, you could increase the size of the target circle (mine is 5" in the above simulation) and get an even farther PBRmax, if you want to. Using 5" gives me the ability to shoot a 5" group and still be under 8" in total potential shot placement at distance.
Sorry for the late reply, harvest started and its been 13-14 hr days for a while. Not alot of spare time.
So far I'm a big fan of the ZA-5. Its a 2-10x40, duplex. I didn't want to go with any type of BDC retical just because I don't like the clutter, and I figured with the target turrets will give me any sort of adjustments I might need.
I played around with it a bit this evening and it seems to be very clear, and bright. I need to get it mounted on a rifle so I can do a side by side test with my VX-III. I really like that the turrets are short. They don't look much bigger than a normal turret. I like the rubber power adjustment ring. Its easy to grip and turns smooth. Pretty much the only thing I don't like about the scope is cosmetic. I can't stand the bright "Minox" on each side of the scope towards the front.
Wait, forgot one more thing that I don't like, the windage knob goes from 1 MOA to 15 MOA, not seven each direction. Not a huge deal for a light mountain rifle, but would be nice to have. Most of the shooting the rifle that it is going on will most likely be point and shoot anyways. Won't have to worry about elvation or windage bunch. Not going for a real long ranger with this one.
Other than that it seems great. I got the "open box spcial" for a really good price. Figured I saved enough on the scope I can order some bottom metal and a trigger for my project as well.
Worth the money so far.
So far I'm a big fan of the ZA-5. Its a 2-10x40, duplex. I didn't want to go with any type of BDC retical just because I don't like the clutter, and I figured with the target turrets will give me any sort of adjustments I might need.
I played around with it a bit this evening and it seems to be very clear, and bright. I need to get it mounted on a rifle so I can do a side by side test with my VX-III. I really like that the turrets are short. They don't look much bigger than a normal turret. I like the rubber power adjustment ring. Its easy to grip and turns smooth. Pretty much the only thing I don't like about the scope is cosmetic. I can't stand the bright "Minox" on each side of the scope towards the front.
Wait, forgot one more thing that I don't like, the windage knob goes from 1 MOA to 15 MOA, not seven each direction. Not a huge deal for a light mountain rifle, but would be nice to have. Most of the shooting the rifle that it is going on will most likely be point and shoot anyways. Won't have to worry about elvation or windage bunch. Not going for a real long ranger with this one.
Other than that it seems great. I got the "open box spcial" for a really good price. Figured I saved enough on the scope I can order some bottom metal and a trigger for my project as well.
Worth the money so far.
Oldtrader3
Ammo Smith
- Nov 6, 2009
- 8,406
- 5
I have a ZA-5 Minox with the BDC feature which I bought about 1-1/2 years ago. I did a resolution/contrast test on several scopes the other night at 1/2 hour after sunset in deep shade just to measure resolution at 25 yards on an ISO 12233 (QA-72) optical test grid. The Minox scope is mounted on my Model 70, .30-06.
The total test results are written up on the Cabela's Forum, Optics Section for all (9) scopes that I tested. The bottom line is that the ZA-5 set at 4X and tested at 25 yards (mininum focal distance for the scope) was able to resolve the white grid lines at 6 lines/mm. This scope tested better than the Zeiss Conquest 2.5-8x32 scope also set at 4X and was only able to barely read 4 lines/mm. Exit pupil was not an issue at 4X. Twilight factor may have been an issue but I seriously doubt it at 8mm exit pupil for the Conquest and 10mm exit pupil for the Minox scope. These are satisfactory results for both contrast and resolution on the Minox scope.
The total test results are written up on the Cabela's Forum, Optics Section for all (9) scopes that I tested. The bottom line is that the ZA-5 set at 4X and tested at 25 yards (mininum focal distance for the scope) was able to resolve the white grid lines at 6 lines/mm. This scope tested better than the Zeiss Conquest 2.5-8x32 scope also set at 4X and was only able to barely read 4 lines/mm. Exit pupil was not an issue at 4X. Twilight factor may have been an issue but I seriously doubt it at 8mm exit pupil for the Conquest and 10mm exit pupil for the Minox scope. These are satisfactory results for both contrast and resolution on the Minox scope.
