Neck sizing

[C.Smith]

When you guys are neck sizing are you using any sort of lube? And if so where does it go and how do you get it off?

I was thinking of doing a partial resize with the standard die and then neck sizing the rest of it, since the loads are going in one rifle.

Corey

 

[DrMike]

Corey,

If using the Lee Collet Die, you do not need to use lubricant. If using a FL die to partially full length size, or if using a neck sizer, you will need to lube. Almost always I use Imperial Sizing Wax and Imperial Application Media, just as I would when FL sizing.

 

[chet]

when using a FL die to neck size, sometimes you end up sizing the case body a little.
I guess thats why they make neck sizing dies :lol:
I lube the whole outside of the case body with either "one shot" or imperial, and I lube the inside of the neck with graphite. even when just neck sizing........ because when they're dry it doesnt take much to stick one!!

 

[C.Smith]

So you guys are lubing the neck area as well as the shoulder and inside the neck when resizing?

Corey

 

[rick smith]

You can't neck size with a FL die, the body of the case is being sized before the neck reaches it's sizing area. I use a bushing die for neck sizing and lube with a mixture of dry lubes. Imperial makes a dry lube.Rick.

 

[hubcap]

Birchwood casey case cleaner for removing lubes works pretty good.

 

[Elkman]

c.smith
When using a regular full length resizing die you do get a little of the case but adjust the die so you get all of the neck and pop the primer. I use imperial sizing wax, a little of it and oil on my fingers I rub it around the outside of the case neck and just across the top of every third or fourth case. Usually you can work a case or two between coatings. I wipe my cases off with a coarse cotton cloth "after" I size, clean the primer pocket, check for length and prior to seating a new primer. I also wash and dry my hands prior to seating new primers. Have had two misfires in 50 years of reloading.

 

[rick smith]

Elkman, if you get all the neck, you will also get 95% or more of the case. If you are going to use a FL die you would be better off PFL or FL.Rick.

 

[Elkman]

Rick

I am backing the die off at least 1/2 inch and running the punch out as far as necessary, the rear/bottom of the case does not even enter the die. I have to use a little graphite on the neck so that I can see that I am even getting all of the neck. Make sense????? Maybe I am doing it wrong?

 

[C.Smith]

Well I was going to use the FL die to partially resize the case and then I have a seperate neck sizing die to finish the neck off. EVeryones advise has been helpfull. The neck of the case has been one thing I have not been putting lube on nor have I put any on the inside of the neck, mainly for fear of not getting it all and have a bullet slip out of the case or somthing like that.

But I'm afraid that I may have been ruining my die and brass by not lubricating that area.

Corey

 

[chet]

the rear/bottom of the case does not even enter the die. I have to use a little graphite on the neck so that I can see that I am even getting all of the neck. Make sense????? Maybe I am doing it wrong?

I do it the same way, and 80% +/- of the time the body is un-touched.
I can even bump the shoulder on my 308 and still not size the body.
I think it mostly has to do with chamber dimensions.
On my 300wm, I can only size about half of the neck before the body makes contact. (I really need to buy a neck die for that one!)

Maybe the only way to be perfect is to have your die cut with the same reamer that cut your chamber??????

 

[rick smith]

Elkman, when you have a case into your FL die to FL or PFL look at where the die meets the case and note how much of the case is exposed below the die. Remove the die from the press and hand insert a fired unsized case and note how much of the case is exposed after it contacts the die. Now look at where the case would have to be to size the neck. If you want to neck size, get a neck sizing die.

Chet, if you can bump the shoulder and not touch the body you must be using a shoulder bump die made specifically for that.

C.Smith if you want to size the body, bump the shoulder and not change neck dimentions,Redding body die would do that.

I know that in a number of manuals it is suggested that you can neck size with a FL die but try what I just told Elkman and decide for yourself.Rick.

 

[Guest]

Rick, I tend to agree with you on this one. I've long laughed about the "neck sizing" with a FL size die instructions that appear in almost every load manual. If you follow those instructions, one of two things happens. Either you properly "Partial-Full-Length-resize" the case, and it works well, or you partially size the case and end up pushing the shoulder forward and the cases won't chamber. The long and the short of it is, you can neck size and occasionally bump the shoulder back with a FL size, or you can PFL size, on purpose. You'll get roughly the same results either way, I believe. At least that's been my experience.

I'd sure have to see the shoulder bumped back and the case body not touched in a FL die. That's a mighty big difference between SAAMI and the rifle chamber.

 

[widgeon]

I generally only FL size new brass. Once I have run the brass through a rifle, I always pop the primer, clean, neck size with a Lee collet, trim if necessary and proceed to load. I finish with the Lee factory crimp die. What's the consensus on this method?

 

[Elkman]

Rick
Here is what I found, when I full length resize, my shell holder and the bottom of the die, meet. Sometimes there is even a camming effect on the die. When I neck size I have about 5/8 or more inches of the case outside the die. When I put what I am considering a neck sized case in the die with my fingers it also goes in and leaves about 5/8 of an inch sticking out of the back of the die.
So!!!! I thought this was really interesting because I assumed that when I neck sized, that only the neck should go in and the die would hit on the unsized shoulder. So then I lubericated a case as normal (imperial) then I sprinkled some graphite on the neck so I would have a mark on what was actually sized. Of course as you already know, and I just learned I had a ring about 3/8 of an inch down the case from the shoulder. So when I am "neck sizing" my STW I am essentially 1/4 sizing the case.
Is that what you expected? It did suprise me because as dubyam suggested I have always been careful to follow the instructions that came with the die.
This is a really long case I will have to test a .308 and see if it is the same. Also I am loading with RCBS dies in a 50 year old Herters C press

 

[rick smith]

Elkman, I think you will find that what I said is true across the board. At least it has been that way with all that I have checked, various calibers/brass from 22 Hornet to 375 H&H.Rick.

 

[woods]

You can only size part of the neck with a FL die if you do not want to size any of the case body.

If you adjust your FL die down any more then the die should contact the case body and start sizing it, beginning at the pressure ring just up from the case head where the solid case head ends and the powder column begins

It helps to set a common set of references on die adjustments, so for the sake of discussion if we call the point where you raise the shell holder and adjust the die down until it hits the shell holder "0" then:

"-3/4 turn" - is where you back the die up off the shell holder 3/4 turn. This is where the die has sized about 3/4 of the neck and has not contacted the case body

"-1/2" - the die has started to contact the case body at the pressure ring and in sizing the case squeezes the case like a baloon so that the case shoulder is pushed up. IOW the linear dimension from the case head to the datum line on the case shoulder gets longer

"-1/4" - now the die has sized more of the case body and has pushed the shoulder enough to often cause a crush fit that will make the case harder to chamber in your rifle

"0" - like explained above where the die is threaded down to hit the shell holder. About this point is where almost all of the neck has been sized and almost all of the case body has been sized and where the most "crush fit" from ballooning out the shoulder will occur

"from +1/8 to +1/4" - somewhere in this range is where you have sized the entire neck, the entire case body and the inside shoulder of the die contacts the case shoulder and begins to push it back. RCBS instructions say to full length resize, adjust the die down an additional 1/4 turn, some other die manufacturers like Lee FL dies with Lee presses are different but the function is the same. You are looking for the exact setting that will push the shoulder back a minimal amount. IOW a very little adjustment will push the shoulder back a lot and you only want to push the shoulder back a minimal amount to save on your case life. It helps to put witness marks on your die and press

The above scenario is the most common but it is possible that there may be variances. For example I have a tight chambered 280AI where the chamber does not allow the case to expand enough so that the die will even contact the case body. You could say the interior dimension of the die is too large or the chamber is too small. This is very uncommon with a factory chamber. On the other end of the spectrum you might have a large chamber and need to use lots of lube to even get the case body up in the die and it takes a lot of pressure to size the case. Sometimes a chamber can be short shouldered in that you have to remove a few thousands off the top of the shell holder or the bottom of the die before you can even reach the shoulder with the die to push it back.

You have to adjust the die according to your chamber by continually chambering the case during the resizing process to gauge the crush fit. Most of the time it will take 3 or 4 firings of the case before the case shoulder has moved far enough forward to get a crush fit if you are using a neck sizing die. The ballooning effect may or may not balloon the shoulder far enough forward for shoulder contact.

All this is a good reason to have a Headspace Gauge. I use the Hornady where you attach a collet onto your caliper and measure from the case head to a point on the shoulder close to or on the datum line

allows you to set your die so that you push the shoulder back only .001" or so.

But 95% of my reloading is done with a Lee Collet neck sizer and then a Redding Body Die. No lube needed with the Lee Collet.

 

[Guy Miner]

Woods, good, informative post.

I neck size with Wilson dies for the .204, .25-06 and the .308 Win. It typically works real well.

More later. Guy

 

[DrMike]

Great post. Carefully lays out the procedure to give proper neck sizing. Thanks for the pictures. They demonstrate in short order what would require many words to explain, and they do so more clearly.

 

[Guest]

Woods,
Those pictures say it all. Good explanation too. I have been thinking about getting the same tools to measure Head space specifically for my 300 Ultra Mag.

Thanks,
Don