Runout on 6.5 Creedmoor necks

[TackDriver284]

I have two Redding full sizing dies for the 6.5 Creed, one is non bushing and other is bushing, I usually use the bushing die without the expander ball. First I decapped the brass, then annealed. Cleaned the brass body and necks, and I measured the headspace, just to check, and felt like taking out the CaseMaster Concentricity tool and measure runout on the necks for kicks, and run out is .0005" prior to sizing and and used some imperial wax to lube the brass and sized with the bushing die and checked run out again, it was about .002"-.003" on 5 cases that I sized. I was curious on why the run out if it was .0005" prior to sizing, so i flipped the bushing over with numbers facing up and resized 5 more cases, same thing.
So I got the regular Redding full sizing die without the bushing and sized 5 more cases, and all 5 was .0005 to less than .001" which impressed me. I don't like using the expander balls, but i use expander mandrels after sizing.

What could be the reason on the runout with the bushing die? Could it be the bushing itself or the die not in alignment?

 

[Darryle]

My understanding based on previous discussions, the clearance of the bushing to die and it may not be concentric to bore.

 

[JD338]

I'm thinking the die or the press the the emphasis on the press.

JD338

 

[RL338]

I use the Type-S on my 7mm-08 and 338 Lapua never had any issues. I used to use it on my 30-378 and they made donuts , never bother to figure out why. I switched to a honed Forster FL. As for the runout I’m thinking the bushing isn’t being held square in the die body.
Have to tried running the bushing tight and see if there is a difference? I’m wondering if the stem isn’t squared for the bushing to rest against.

 

[TackDriver284]

I'm thinking the die or the press the the emphasis on the press.

JD338

The standard die i used had zero runout, .0005" at least. Could be the bushing or the die itself?

 

[TackDriver284]

I use the Type-S on my 7mm-08 and 338 Lapua never had any issues. I used to use it on my 30-378 and they made donuts , never bother to figure out why. I switched to a honed Forster FL. As for the runout I’m thinking the bushing isn’t being held square in the die body.
Have to tried running the bushing tight and see if there is a difference? I’m wondering if the stem isn’t squared for the bushing to rest against.

Contacted Redding, the tech has no clue but said to ship a few fired cases and the die plus the bushing and they will see what the issue may be.
I heard some folks talked about using a thin o ring on the die, I wonder where they used it on the die, it may float the die to square it better, just a thought.

I was checking some custom made dies and whoo, they run up to like 500- 700 bucks per custom sizing die and bushing.

 

[TackDriver284]

I want to try this, just need to find some #17 o rings.

Try Using O-Rings with Sizing Dies for Reduced Neck Run-out « Daily Bulletin

Here's an inexpensive procedure that can help you load straighter ammo, with slightly better measured concentricity (i.e. less run-out) on the case necks and bullets. Simply use a rubber O-Ring on the underside of the die locking ring.

bulletin.accurateshooter.com

 

[NYDAN]

I believe I have had better concentricity with non-bushing FL dies. To avoid significantly under sizing the neck, I switched to Foster honed dies.

Also, I found that the bushing dies I had didn't size the neck all the way to the neck/shoulder junction. That concerned me with the short necked 300 WM, 300 WSM, and 7mm WSM cases.

 

[TackDriver284]

Also, I found that the bushing dies I had didn't size the neck all the way to the neck/shoulder junction. That concerned me with the short necked 300 WM, 300 WSM, and 7mm WSM cases.

Yup, on my 300 Win Mag, the most I can size is about 80% of the neck, I leave a little slack for the bushing to move freely.

 

[Charlie-NY]

The bushing should be loose/floating when you lockdown the adjustments. Can you hear the bushing move freely when you shake the die?
FWIW - the etched numbers on the bushing should always face down.

 

[Dr. Vette]

The bushing should be loose/floating when you lockdown the adjustments. Can you hear the bushing move freely when you shake the die?
FWIW - the etched numbers on the bushing should always face down.

I usually gently finger tighten until the adjuster runs into the bushing, then adjust a bit back so that the bushing is slightly loose. It seems to work well for me.
As Charlie noted, numbers down is supposed to be better than numbers up.

 

[TackDriver284]

The bushing should be loose/floating when you lockdown the adjustments. Can you hear the bushing move freely when you shake the die?
FWIW - the etched numbers on the bushing should always face down.

Charlie and Vette,,,Yes, I first had the numbers down, and checked with the numbers up and did not work, so put it back down again. I can hear the bushing rattle, left little space to move freely.

Ran the .263 carbide mandrel and powder filled the the cases, then checked runout on the bullet on 15 loaded rounds, its .001 " to .002" run out, its pretty much standard run out. It's a minimum amount.

Haven't tried the 0 ring method yet, I will test it out first.

 

[Ridge_Runner]

neck tension thee same with both dies? could be the seating method, do you spin the case a couple times during the seating process?

 

[RL338]

I primarily use a Hornady LNL press that uses o-ring under their bushing. Does it help , not sure but you can see slight movement in the die as your sizing a case.

 

[TackDriver284]

neck tension thee same with both dies? could be the seating method, do you spin the case a couple times during the seating process?

When I sized with both dies without the expander buttons, I measured the neck diameter, the brass neck with the standard die is .004" larger than a loaded neck, if I could remember, and with the bushing it was .002" . Before powder filling, I used a .263" carbide mandrel to expand the necks on both brass. Neck tension is .001" on loaded rounds. Yes, I spun them 1/3 of the way, seated 1/3, then spun another 1/3 and seated partially, and another 1 /3 and fully seated. I don't do this seating method, gave it a try anyway. Need to test them soon.

 

[TackDriver284]

I primarily use a Hornady LNL press that uses o-ring under their bushing. Does it help , not sure but you can see slight movement in the die as your sizing a case.

That is something I like to experiment with if all fails. Need to get the 0 ring.

 

[RiverRider]

I'd switch out the die lock ring and try it again.

 

[TackDriver284]

I primarily use a Hornady LNL press that uses o-ring under their bushing. Does it help , not sure but you can see slight movement in the die as your sizing a case.

Does the lock ring have a groove on the underside for the o ring to fit in?

 

[RL338]

Not at home now but this is what my Hornady press uses.

https://www.amazon.com/Hornady-Lock-Load-Bushings-Conversion/dp/B07R95QZHS

 

[TackDriver284]

Not at home now but this is what my Hornady press uses.

https://www.amazon.com/Hornady-Lock-Load-Bushings-Conversion/dp/B07R95QZHS

Those are different from what i use. I guess i'll just slide a thin 0 ring up the die to the lock ring or just buy a Lee lock ring with the o ring on the underside and try it.